Xpoff can que bgs now. What 29 twink you making?

I actually agree with a lot of your points @Chey but want to elaborate on some of my perspectives

I disagree with you about 20s building a community when no other bracket could, 60s and 70s continued to do weekly raids for years after the PVP stopped.
That isn't quite what I said, I mentioned the 21-29 bracket specifically. I think its sick yall were able to maintain an active raiding scene back in the day, I'm actually kinda jealous of the russian 20s who raid AQ almost every week, but it doesn't go against my point.


How many true FTP players are there?
On the forums? Maybe only like 6 lmao but that isn't a fair representation of population. If you go into BGs you'll still see a bunch of them they just aren't aware or don't care to join to join the Xpoff community at large. Hell most of them aren't even aware they can fully level their professions now.


I suspect a lot of FTP also have VeTs that are in my opinion no different to the new XPoff 25+s taking a paid account to maximize their advantage, there by essentially exploiting their own community.
My opinion on this has actually changed over the years. In BFA or earlier I would have absolutely agreed with you. When I started playing my F2Ps again regularly in BFA I was shocked and kinda disgusted that VETs had become so prevalent since the last time I was active in the bracket and community, for more than a week or two at a time, enchanted 20s were ridiculed and somewhat ostracized even if they were "only doing it to combat the 24s." But in SL? I don't think I really agree with that anymore with how much F2P restrictions have opened up the gear levels end up being pretty equivalent between them an a VET. Its was unfortunate for levelers though but with us being at the bottom of the bracket so long as they are in heirlooms with a weapon enchant it more or less evened out by the time they hit lvl25


VETs only stayed 20 so they could still PVP.
This is certainly true of a lot of 20s that joined in BFA/SL and why I don't fault a lot them, and new twinks looking to join a bracket, for going 29 as much as I don't like the idea of it. Hell the only reason I even made my first VET was because trying to sell the F2P playstyle to my end game friends was too hard, was only able to get one of them to make a F2P alongside their VET, so I made a VET in order to join their guild. So when I say I get why they do it its not just lip service to try and play nice, I do genuinely understand why the people with no history/attachment to the 20s community would roll a 29 currently. I just wish they would make some effort to understand why some people ask them to roll a 20 instead and not just reply with "just sub lmao"


I would also say 90% of VETs used the gift wrap artifact bug to max their weapon so they could 'compete' with the grandfathered relic twinks. I see this as the same 'concept' of making a 29 to compete. Absolutely NOT the same thing but if we are talking community and morals the difference between FTP (Non GF relic)/Leveler advantage was similar.
Ah here is a fun one. I'm actually in favor of some level of the dreaded gatekeeping *gasp* as I don't think the vast majority of current 20s are able to control themselves with glitches and end up getting cool things like the korraks summon glitch patched out. Following that same example a glitch that had previously been used only by F2P to get mogs/achieves/mounts ended up getting abused to the point of blizzard having to go in and hotfix it because a bunch of window lickers got wind of ilvl85 gear and decided they absolutely must have it to one shot levelers harder. While the person I quoted in my original post may have made it in jest there are a bunch of people who have that kind of mentality unironically and wet themselves with excitement in their glue fueled haze at the thought of destroying opponents who can't fight back and do often try to hide behind the "compete" excuse as you mentioned. The overlap between those people and the ones who reroll to 24/29, historically, tends to be a circle which is the main reason why older 20s are so openly toxic and hostile to 29 rerollers.


The amazing 20 community (which I still love) was not built from nothing either, in regards to PVP. It was simply an end result of the accounts having access to leveling Battlegrounds. Being the x0 (bottom) of the bracket just the same as 60s and 70s.

I am just saying I think people are looking at the existing 20 community with rose colored glasses.
When I talk about 20s building their community from nothing I am generally referencing back to the beginnings so stuff like the Aerie Peak and Kargath scenes which I do absolutely look at with rose colored glasses as early F2P was probably my favorite time in twinking. While modern 20s may not resemble those times exactly its still where the current scene grew from and still has its roots there and explains why its completely separate from the 21-29 community. Hell even if you want to exclude ancient history just look at communities built by the Teldies and the skirmish ladder or even more recently theres the Twinkies that have exploded with funding and community events over the last month or so. Those kind of things take effort to build and aren't there just because someone can log in and press find match. If it wasn't for the community the Teldies built up I wouldn't be playing any VETs and would be content to just log into my F2P and press that find match button without interacting with the bracket at large.

My hope is that 20 is put into its own bracket (not completely unrealistic) but until then I will play my old 70s as they are. I am sure if FTP level cap became 10 for the next few years forcing a shift on the community then returned to level 20 cap combined with 10s sometime in the future, you would all go back to your 20s as well.
My ideal scenario is Blizz treating 20 similar to an xpac capped bracket. Let the F2Ps, VETs, and xpoff 20s all queue into their own isolated bracket like they do the 50s but without the levelers.

While I don't think the example you gave is realistic and is kind of an apples to oranges comparison I personally don't fault you for playing your old 70s and completely understand. My hostility is reserved for the window lickers mentioned a few quotes up
 
Right now nobody is noticing the ramifications because we just have a few (relatively) geared 29s running around... it will get worse and worse the more S tiers that get into the "final phase"... already on BH people are farming 29 socket gear around the clock. I was in one earlier and somebody said "this is it from now on... lopsided games!"... I was like "Asshat, how is that different from what we just game out of...". And then there were 4 or 5 good ones.

Obviously on the larger maps you will have the best games, because with all geared toons you more than likely won't be able to just graveyard another team like you can when 90% of the other team is just levelers wearing greens/missing slots.

All this "maximize advantage" stupid talk is kind of saddening... because all it really refers to is ranged 20s not wanting to have to worry about non-s tier melee like they did before the current merge... well now you do, even simple stuff like Blessing of Freedom just makes it so any Ret is a real threat (outside of some delusional kid before the merge being on a lopsided team and thinking he was actually contributing to the win playing his Retribution.)

Is it fun to make a 29 Ret/Enhance and not just die to random ranged kiddy fire/turn around grab some goofy-gut Survival Hunter kid by the collar and just smack the actual FUCK out of him... yeah... but that wont last.

If this stays, the real test will be what we see in 3 months when all of the S tier actual 29s are online. And sure just based on the abilities the non S tier melee have it won't be as bad as they are at 20, but that gap will widen again.

My Prediction (IF this merge is permanent): IMO in 3 months you are gonna see 50% of all toons are 29 balance druids just 2 shotting everybody and having an unbeatable tool kit (this is simply because the class is way easier to play than some ego-kids let on and it is basically stupid proof... but with the 29 kit and full gem gear it will be a joke show)... we saw that back in Legion (again I don't remember this crap, but whatever the last time the 29s could queue and had basically the same exact tool kit that they will have in DF). We are just entering into an exact replica of whatever that expansion was + mega gear... minus levelers and plus Death Knights that nobody cares about.

My favorite sightings so far are 29 geared Wind Walkers just deleting geared 20s
 
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Sup guys hows it going? Been playing Diablo Immortal for the past months as a F2P. But Really?!?!? I can play my 27 war and 29 druid again in BGs?
 
isn't it normal to maximizing the advantage as a twink? i mean 20s are chasing BIS to have the biggest advantage. If you want to play more or less balanced bg's then just play max lvl pvp bro
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Sup guys hows it going? Been playing Diablo Immortal for the past months as a F2P. But Really?!?!? I can play my 27 war and 29 druid again in BGs?

yes you can
 
isn't it normal to maximizing the advantage as a twink? i mean 20s are chasing BIS to have the biggest advantage. If you want to play more or less balanced bg's then just play max lvl pvp bro
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yes you can

It's amazing how relative a term "maximizing" is. When you are on the good end like abusing 49s for MONTHS etc., kids are OK with it. As soon as it's an unfavorable shit show... guess what... it's baby bottle whining time with: "Oh My Goodness Gracious Holy Mary Mother of God!" Blizzard forum posts and other RIDICULOUS SHIT. It's just the people you are dealing with and not the actual issue itself.

But, rest assured 99% of the people whining here are the same ones that already have fully geared 29s... or at least their old squished crap toons.

***

The games so far feel A LOT better than the ones previous to the merge.. sure you wait longer and the off hour queues are DEAD, but that's enough if it means good games.
 
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as long you don't break the rules with maximizing it's ok for me. with glitches like wrapped gear or xp debuffing it's disgusting! but with making 29s you aren't breaking any rules with the change it's now intended to have 29s in the xpoff brackets. which makes kinda sense for me because in the end of the day f2p vets and xpoff players are all stuck at a specific level
 
The games so far feel A LOT better than the ones previous to the merge.. sure you wait longer and the off hour queues are DEAD, but that's enough if it means good games

I'm still on the fence about the change, played about 40 games so far and maybe 10 have been balanced. There are just so many F2P's with no gear in the games now that the outcome is pretty much decided before the game starts, at least some of the levelers in heirlooms could participate

Might have to try playing a DPS for a bit and see how that is
 
I'm still on the fence about the change, played about 40 games so far and maybe 10 have been balanced. There are just so many F2P's with no gear in the games now that the outcome is pretty much decided before the game starts, at least some of the levelers in heirlooms could participate

Might have to try playing a DPS for a bit and see how that is

I've seen some of the F2Ps that I have zero idea what they are actually doing.. but most of them are in at least bag/satchel gear... now sure that is not great, but I would not consider them more worthless than levelers were.
 
This entire thread makes me sad. I was away from the game for 12 years, and loved twinking back in the day. I was so looking forward to finding a way to do it again, but this thread alone makes me want to just unsub. So many butthurt people on both sides of this.
 
isn't it normal to maximizing the advantage as a twink? i mean 20s are chasing BIS to have the biggest advantage


The nicest and honestly best ppl to play with in this game have been pve 20's who are in it just for the fun of collecting and stuff. Like I have been playing wow for 16 years and they are the best community the game has to offer lol. They are def not minmaxing to have an advantage over others they are just playing and having fun and I think we could all learn from that.
 
The nicest and honestly best ppl to play with in this game have been pve 20's who are in it just for the fun of collecting and stuff. Like I have been playing wow for 16 years and they are the best community the game has to offer lol. They are def not minmaxing to have an advantage over others they are just playing and having fun and I think we could all learn from that.

Actually true but it doesn't matter if i play shadowlands endgame tbc or low level brackets minmaxers everywhere! so yeah it's normal to minmax unfortunaly. the punishment if you don't minmax is way too hard in the lower brackets if you play a non meta class for a example i made 2 throw away demonhunters for 10s and it was disgusting! it felt i'm a glasscannon but without the cannon :HYPERKEKW:
 
Not stirring the pot, but OMG is WW monk so much better past level 20 to me. So much of the toolkit unlocked.

Just leveling its so much more fluid and enjoyable to play.

edit- THAT is where 20 is going to find the largest hurdle, IMO... not so much damage as utility/abilities. Plus damage... of course.
 
Not stirring the pot, but OMG is WW monk so much better past level 20 to me. So much of the toolkit unlocked.

Warglave = werglerves? Or just some monk rocking double glaives. We got glave, glerves and glaives going on here.
upload_2022-8-23_11-53-15.png
 
Guardian druid is viable? How is 50% more dmg taken impacting your play?
 
Guardian druid is viable?

Always was. Also here's a game from yesterday
upload_2022-8-23_12-48-14.png


How is 50% more dmg taken impacting your play?

Just have to do some sneaky regrowths. Using frenzied regen + eng belt heal + renewal to heal full helps too. In DF I get swiftmend instead of renewal.
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I'm Werglerves

Your 70/79 wrath twink have double war glaives too? :) They'll be so much more valuable in that bracket.
 
Always was. Also here's a game from yesterday
View attachment 21613

Just have to do some sneaky regrowths. Using frenzied regen + eng belt heal + renewal to heal full helps too. In DF I get swiftmend instead of renewal.
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Your 70/79 wrath twink have double war glaives too? :) They'll be so much more valuable in that bracket.


26 weeks and only 1 oh 3 weeks ago. So not yet, but will have it sure. And atm that toon hadn’t been touched since MOP, so he has nothing “new”, just some quick enchants to catch him up a tad and some gems. And the toon is we built around the name and weapons bro, I’m not dropping them
 
"Xpoff can que bgs now. What 29 twink you making?"

None? LOL!
 

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