/eww
Ideally, how many dps should it take to kill a healer?
- Thread starter Revlo
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OP
OP
I believe that was your response before as well.
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You fucked up if that's happening. Most 24s don't drop my crit geared resto druid unless they flat out one shot me and I don't have close to 1.9k. If you're Sponsor, I'm pretty sure I ended up against you a few times in AB. You seemed fine in those games so unfortunately I have no constructive criticism.
I think he was trying to make a point that hunters are abit too strong.
The game theory behind this question has been studied in terms of WoW arena for years... I remember being completely new at this game and reading a thread about it on Arenajunkies something like 7~ years ago.
Essentially what it boils down to is that, all things balanced and equal, a healer should break even against 1.5 damage classes.
Obviously you can't have "half" a damage class in a balanced scenario (unless you include a healer as that .5, which is another line of thought all together), but in terms of numerical balance that is the best explanation.
So therefore, 2 DPS classes is the first integer breakpoint where a healer should die. The kill should be slow and relatively non bursty, and the net result is still only .5 DPS classes.
There are other factors to consider as well, such as that 1 DPS should eventually be able to deplete the healer's resources so as to kill them given enough time.
Essentially what it boils down to is that, all things balanced and equal, a healer should break even against 1.5 damage classes.
Obviously you can't have "half" a damage class in a balanced scenario (unless you include a healer as that .5, which is another line of thought all together), but in terms of numerical balance that is the best explanation.
So therefore, 2 DPS classes is the first integer breakpoint where a healer should die. The kill should be slow and relatively non bursty, and the net result is still only .5 DPS classes.
There are other factors to consider as well, such as that 1 DPS should eventually be able to deplete the healer's resources so as to kill them given enough time.
I over exaggerated
My point was that it seems very easy for them to tunnel me down and force me to pop CD's and pillar hump 24/7. I go nuts when I have 3 hunters on me at once, impossible to heal through no matter how geared they are.
how many people needed to screw in a light bulb question?
one if the healer is new and/or not doing his/her job,
two if the healer happens to have decent gear,
and three if it happens to be the max level in the bracket, *cough* 24 *cough*.
one if the healer is new and/or not doing his/her job,
two if the healer happens to have decent gear,
and three if it happens to be the max level in the bracket, *cough* 24 *cough*.
hmmm [MENTION=5987]The Saint[/MENTION] please fill me in, one dps is enough for a hpal right?
Your answer is 1.5. Arenajunkies,a theory crafting site, has done extensive testing in this matter. Albeit not in this bracket and not with gear scaling.
I have, on many occasions, been one shotted by two rogue teams, or two shotted depending on your perspective, on my 20 resto shaman.
Sweetsidney
I have, on many occasions, been one shotted by two rogue teams, or two shotted depending on your perspective, on my 20 resto shaman.
Sweetsidney
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Only if you sheep the feral first. But we could always find out, let me know when your scrotum has descended.
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I'd go with 1.5
But imo 1 dps v 1 healer of equal gear/skill should come up zero sum, with the healer surviving but having no opportunity to kill the dps without risking being killed.
Generally the only way to balance healer vs dps duels is with the DPS having some form of health sustain.
That isn't really intended, though, as far as Blizzard balance goes. I think what's being asked in this thread is how many DPS classes it should take to out damage the healing of one healing class.
Re: Ideally, how many dos should it take to kill a healer?
Considering the fact this is a group oriented game, you shouldn't ever be able to 1v1 a healer, no matter how good you are at timing kicks/stuns (if gear/skill are equal).
Considering the fact this is a group oriented game, you shouldn't ever be able to 1v1 a healer, no matter how good you are at timing kicks/stuns (if gear/skill are equal).
OP
OP
Interesting. Were they saying that this was what blizzard intended or just the reality of how things balanced out?
This also raises another question for me: Ideally, how many dps would you say would be needed to take out a player receiving un-interrupted heals? It would of course depend on mitigation. Let's say the player taking the damage is a prot warrior with around 2.5k health receiving heals from any healing class. No stacks, no zerker, just straight up. Would the number simply go up to 2.0 or further?
This is all just conjecture I know, but I find it kind of fun.
Also, there is such a thing as .5 dps currently. Enh shamans.
Re: Ideally, how many dos should it take to kill a healer?
I think Upswag is talking about a prolonged fight. In a long fight, a hypothetical class-less DPS should be able to kill a healer by depleting resources (cooldowns, mana, etc).
I say a class-less DPS because some class specializations are going to be unable to kill a healer 1v1 and some are going to excel at it. There isn't an even, normalized playing field. So taking this into account, we're talking about hypothetical DPS classes and hypothetical healing classes rather than specific classes.
I think Upswag is talking about a prolonged fight. In a long fight, a hypothetical class-less DPS should be able to kill a healer by depleting resources (cooldowns, mana, etc).
I say a class-less DPS because some class specializations are going to be unable to kill a healer 1v1 and some are going to excel at it. There isn't an even, normalized playing field. So taking this into account, we're talking about hypothetical DPS classes and hypothetical healing classes rather than specific classes.
Interesting. Were they saying that this was what blizzard intended or just the reality of how things balanced out?
This also raises another question for me: Ideally, how many dps would you say would be needed to take out a player receiving un-interrupted heals? It would of course depend on mitigation. Let's say the player taking the damage is a prot warrior with around 2.5k health receiving heals from any healing class. No stacks, no zerker, just straight up. Would the number simply go up to 2.0 or further?
This is all just conjecture I know, but I find it kind of fun.
Also, there is such a thing as .5 dps currently. Enh shamans.
The Arenajunkies posts were talking about a balanced bracket. The perfect scenario rather than the reality. Endgame will always be closer to perfect balance than twinking brackets, due to Blizzard actually spending time "balancing" it.
You can easily make adjustments as how to this theory pertains to our bracket by converting conventional knowledge of various classes into the hypothetical name-less DPS classes.
So currently, from my experience and in my own opinion, Resto Druids can heal through approximately 1 similarly skilled F2P hunter. If the hunter does not have moth or another CC pet, then the healing increases to being slightly larger than the Hunter's damage output. This is because the kill potential from those pets increases the Hunter's effective "damage" without actually adding to its DPS numbers.
That would put F2P hunter at about 1.5 DPS, once again, in my opinion.
One more class as an example - Arms warriors, in my experience and in my opinion, are able to grind down a Resto Druid over time and eventually acquire a kill. Assuming two equally skilled players, I would say that F2P Arms Warriors are about roughly 1.7 DPS in terms of this system.
Other factors are in play besides flat damage numbers and these factors will either scale up or scale down the damage/healing of these (or any) two classes.
OP
OP
It definitely puts me more on edge when classes don't use their interrupts. How many times do I fake? 2, 3? Any more than that and I'm going to die. I suppose if you didn't know if a player was going to fake, not kicking could allow them a heal though.
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that's really just a BG issue, and it really only happens once
OP
OP
That's true. If it happens once, then you know. Now the question is, the next time I go up against you, do I fake?
..... Of course I do, you know I will.
.... Or will I?
.... I will, 3 times.
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