Stats

[Yde]

Why would skill be exclusive to anything? To define skill you have to assign something to be skilled at.

If you want to observe skill at using class abilities most effectively, timing and positioning, that's almost exclusively observable in arena, sure.

Not really always gleaned from arena stats, but observable. But skilled arena players could occasionally have no leadership skill, patience, perseverance, be unskilled at motivating others and be someone you'd not want alongside you in a BG.

But these are also hard to judge by stats. People are confident in calling someone who has a good stats a good BG player only if they have observed him play. I don't think anyone would make such a confident statement about a player with excellent stats that they haven't seen play.

 

[Chykcha]

If you read the whole thread you'd understand what i ment.

You ment the same as I do. Stats can show how good a player is in 1st approximation, but the more accurate we want to be (in determining "goodness" of a player) the deeper approximation we need to do, taking into accout many and many things. The same idea from another angle.

 

[Junoo]

You ment the same as I do. Stats can show how good a player is in 1st approximation, but the more accurate we want to be (in determining "goodness" of a player) the deeper approximation we need to do, taking into accout many and many things. The same idea from another angle.

i see, yeah and even if a player where to be judged, the only way to get a definitive answer was to have multiple people judge that one player. EVEN then you'd only get an avg score.

at the end of the day, saying if a player is good or bad isnt fact, just down the what the majority of people agree on.

tbh ive gone wayyyy to deep into this, i died a little inside.

 

[Kibbies]

Stats don't convey skill. They are two completely different things, one that can be measured while the other is judged. This does not mean people with good stats do not have skill or vice versa. They are just irrelevant to each other.
'Skill' is such a loose term to use and people have their own definitions. I always thought of skill having two components, playing a class at its peak and having objective awareness. Playing a class at its peak is knowing your rotations and competence facing every other class. be it knowing when to pop cds, trink, juking, silencing, etc. Objective awareness I think of as knowing when to go D or O, offhealing, line of sight points, jumps, predicting, repicking, etc.
Stats can never show these things, you can only know if someone is truly good by playing both with and against them.

Wall of text hits you for 2.6 k shadow dmg (674 overkill)

 

[darkspearwow1]

im a paladin I judge anyone and everyone

on a more serious note I do not see how the amount of flags capped/returned is skill. Druids and rogues are made for that.
Is making it across mid on a enchanted stealthie wielding 15 agil enchant, grabbing zerking and 1 shotting the efc=skill?


And motivating others to do something in a bg? Impossible. You are playing with 10-16 year olds. Give me a break. If its hard to get logic into the heads of adults in this particular game,. Kids definitely wont understand reasoning. You will just spent your words, patience, whatever. Read my post about http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f40/blackvenom-blade-not-gf-51401/ . I presume that guy was an adult based on his sentence structure, no use of vulgar words,whatever.

All you can do is smile and say something nice to the kids, hope the for the best, and requeue. I had an unfortunate experience yesterday of queueing with a bunch of children on my team. It was a disaster.

 

[Snack]

If you're only testing skill in arena, you can't measure if a certain person is good at FC'ing, healing in O/D, returning flags etc.

I'd say you can only call a player 'skilled' if you have tested him in every aspect of the game, being in the gulch, arena, duels etc, otherwise he might be skilled at a certain thing like FC'ing, CC'ing etc.

 

[madhombre]

arena is the best way...why? because you sum up all the things you need in bgs, open pvp, duels and so on.

edit: you wont find a gladiator who doesnt know how to act in bgs, but you will find many rbg heros who fail in arenas

 

[Snack]

arena is the best way...why? because you sum up all the things you need in bgs, open pvp, duels and so on.

edit: you wont find a gladiator who doesnt know how to act in bgs, but you will find many rbg heros who fail in arenas

How do you sum up surviving alone as FC against a heavy O through outrunning/postitioning/terrain jumps? How do you sum up being able to control middle? How do you sum up knowing when to open and who to open on, when you're @ efc?

 

[Chykcha]

arena is the best way...why? because you sum up all the things you need in bgs, open pvp, duels and so on.

edit: you wont find a gladiator who doesnt know how to act in bgs, but you will find many rbg heros who fail in arenas

On 20lvl bg>arena, especially premade bg. In pro arena I doubt that anything can destroy 2hpalas/2discpriests or 2elems/2restoshamas, so if you're out of those classes you're already classified as unskilled, cause you cant win them. On bg there are many more problems than just to kill opposite team, for example you can go fully naked hunter and be a god with good using of tracking and eagle eye, you can coordinate the whole team; you should understand if it's viable to attack this AB base or it's better to stay on def, and so on. End levels arena =/= f2p arena.

 

[Junoo]

to sum up, this bracket is full of 3 button no skill KB's abilties so to "debate" wether a player is good become's irreverent.

 

[Snack]

to sum up, this bracket is full of 3 button no skill KB's abilties so to "debate" wether a player is good become's irreverent.

imo you can still utilize them in different ways

 

[Junoo]

imo you can still utilize them in different ways

i agree 100% but at the end of the day its takes 12yr to master, unlike before preshattering patch where it took months or years to master a class at 19.

blizz have dumb down wow, giving op class rolling f2p/24s the unachieved sense of achievement and ego to follow.

im not flaming/raging/ w/e just this bracket is at such a low standard when it comes to actual "skill" or "objective" play.

R.I.P WoW

 

[Franciska]

Arena is one of the boring and most skill barren format in the game. After 1 person falls, the team shall follow...

 

[Junoo]

Arena is one of the boring and most skill barren format in the game. After 1 person falls, the team shall follow...

im intrested to know your end game rating and proof of it <3

 

[Snack]

I have never been in an arena team @ endgame. Not saying that I'm BiS #1 @ twinking either, but I see myself decent. Meaning endgame rating doesn't have to be a way to measure skill.

 

[madhombre]

How do you sum up surviving alone as FC against a heavy O through outrunning/postitioning/terrain jumps? How do you sum up being able to control middle? How do you sum up knowing when to open and who to open on, when you're @ efc?

surviving as a fc = survive if you get burstet in arena, control middle = force the enemies to play defensive, open at fc or anyone else = hard switches, positioning = positioning, los and so on, terrain jumps = who the hell need these stupid jumps which each moron can learn in 1 gulch?

@the other post: ofc arena is class depending, but especially at lvl 20 you can bring up all classes in arena.. classes like warlocks who need a decent grp in bgs to be viable are awesome in arenas.

 

[Snack]

surviving as a fc = survive if you get burstet in arena, control middle = force the enemies to play defensive, open at fc or anyone else = hard switches, positioning = positioning, los and so on, terrain jumps = who the hell need these stupid jumps which each moron can learn in 1 gulch?

@the other post: ofc arena is class depending, but especially at lvl 20 you can bring up all classes in arena.. classes like warlocks who need a decent grp in bgs to be viable are awesome in arenas.

Controling mid and 'forcing enemies to play defensive' is in no way the same... you can control mid with 1 hunt, you can't force a 5m team to play defensive with 1 hunt.

Hard switches is not the same, since you have to be a team to do that, we are discussing individual skill, and in a BG you have to think for yourself who would be the smartest target of your CC/opener etc.

Again positioning in BG and arena not the same, you can be a good LoS'er in arena, but terrible when it comes to position yourself as a healer in a premade.

And terrain jumps is useful in a bracket where people are really good at spamming ambush, shield slam, AV and Explosive Shot, but terrible when they have to actually use they're brain and manouvre around

 

[madhombre]

so we both have a different opinion on that

edit: but above all opinions, arena = bg which is a fact each decent pvper will agree

 

[Gulbon]

A skilled player in my opinion is someone who tries to play objectively, can hold their own, and understands how to PvP.

 

[Zehj]

win/loss doesn't mean much, depends on how much you afk, pug or premade and the other players in both teams

returns/caps depend on the above but are more situational. Certain roles/classes wont see many of these, but its safe to assume players with a high return/cap ratio per wsg are decent

having a fast return helps too