Stat Weights

[mighty]

Calling all number crunchers and theorycrafters!

I don't want to be overly critical, but some people who tell other players how to gear can't or won't explain their gear choices. Maybe they rolled a gazillion toons and tried on every combination of gear. Maybe they use chardev.org and read paperdoll numbers. Maybe they bot for hours on a training dummy and analyze the data stream. Maybe they just look at what other players are wearing and call it BiS without data.

I want numbers!

Some numbers should be easy:
What is current hit cap? How does it need to be adjusted for nelf racial dodge? How does BG scaling affect chance to hit 24's?

Some numbers might be controversial:
What is the value of Expertise in 20-24 BGs?
What weight should Armor have for Holy paladins?

Some numbers are changing with the upcoming patch:
What is the value of Resilience?

I can find PvE stat weights for level 90 on wowhead, noxxic, icy-veins, askmrrobot, and most gear optimization sites, but where do I find stat weights for level 20 PvP? Here on twinkinfo, I hope!

Please! Share any stat weights that you use, with a short explaination for any non-obvious choices! Any class or spec! Thanks

 

[Publ1c3n3my]

what exactly are you planning to make, a holy paladin?

 

[Footman]

Ok let's start with Resilience. From my calculations, Resilience currently becomes as valuable as stamina only after your character gets to 1567 health or higher.

- Resilience >= stamina after reaching 1567 health

- Explanation:
Each point of stamina provides a flat 10 health
Each point of Resilience provides ~0.638% damage reduction (value does decrease as you get more resilience).

Therefore, I use the following equation to find the health turning point where 1 point resilience becomes more useful than 1 point of stamina:
H=health
H * (0.638/100) = 10 Note dividing the % value by 100 just as you would do when something is 50% you times by 0.5 (= 50/100)
H = 1567

Any health value higher than that, resilience becomes MORE useful than stamina.


(Also if patch 5.3 goes ahead with the currently reduced value of resilience at 0.202%, then resilience will only be as useful as stamina after you get to 4950 Health) Source: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f43/confirmed-5-3-info-f2ps-47154/

 

[Vandiir]

Just to answer some questions with obvious answers.

Some numbers should be easy:
What is current hit cap? How does it need to be adjusted for nelf racial dodge? How does BG scaling affect chance to hit 24's?

Chardev hit ratings and expertise numbers have been, and are, consistent with live numbers (as of patch 5.2 currently) at levels 20 and 24. One could easily confirm that by comparing their own character's hit/expertise stats and what chardev says, or what chardev says and the various armories provided by F2P Rankings from lofi.
The only thing to take note regarding chardev and hit rating/expertise: the chardev does not count expertise towards spell hit rating, while in reality expertise (including expertise from racials) contributes to spell hit chance: +n% expertise= +n% to spell hit.

And, for players of any level versus a foe of equal level, hit % cap is 3% for melees and abilities that can get dodged, and 6% for spells that can't get dodged [though, in [n, n+4] battlegrounds, like [15,19], or [20,24], some classes (primarily dps casters) at level n instead of n+1, ..., n+4 face a 26% miss chance].

What weight should Armor have for Holy paladins?

First, one should ask: what does armor do, at least approximately? When is armor helpful? Answers to those (obvious) questions are enough to answer the quoted question, especially the "when are they helpful?" part.

Please! Share any stat weights that you use, with a short explaination for any non-obvious choices! Any class or spec! Thanks

With regards to glass cannon DPS choices between agi/str vs crit comparisons if one is mathematically inclined:

One can compare those two by calculating and comparing expected values of auto-attacks and abilities from each set. On a ability-by-ability basis, there's also not much on variance/distribution to talk about, since ability damage outputs either deal 2d with probability p and deal d with probability (1-p), or deal 2X with chance p and X with chance (1-p), X being a uniformly distributed random variable. Here is an example of a comparison for a hunter.

Of course, one should also compare and calculate expected values/etc. on a class by class basis. Sometimes, and usually, "common sense" may also be enough to draw the same conclusions with less effort.

 

[mighty]

what exactly are you planning to make, a holy paladin?

I have at least 10 geared f2p toons across 5 servers. That includes about 6 lucky fishing hats, 3 AGM, and about a dozen BoA. But I haven't played in about a year and a half and need to update some gear to deal with changes in the game. I was finding some helpful info in guides here, but most have a BiS list with no explanations. So, yes, I want to gear a Holy Paladin. And a hunter. And a prot warrior. And an arms warrior. And, and, and...

Resilience >= stamina after reaching 1567 health

Fantastic! I was hearing mutterings, but this is the first understandable number. I am not sure what they are seeing on PTR, but the patch notes seem to indicate a strong chance that Resil will disappear from PVP gear, being replaced in some cases with PVP Power. I will have to keep watching the change thread, but your analysis makes my decision process much clearer.

 

[Sabzep]

I made the comparison between Magician's Mantle and Exquisite Sunderseer Mantle when 5.0 hit.
Res vs Sta.
I haven't revisited this after 5.2 with BoAs scaling which would make BoAs even more favorable. I think I'll compare again in 5.3 when Resilience is changed.

 

[Nakedplumber]

Youre gonna have to wait until they fix hit

 

[bigdip]

Fantastic! I was hearing mutterings, but this is the first understandable number. I am not sure what they are seeing on PTR, but the patch notes seem to indicate a strong chance that Resil will disappear from PVP gear, being replaced in some cases with PVP Power. I will have to keep watching the change thread, but your analysis makes my decision process much clearer.

Keep in mind, if you are healing your self through damage, resilience is even more useful. But its true, time will tell to see how useful resilience will be next patch.

 

[mighty]

Just to answer some questions with obvious answers.

Ha! Those are obvious answers? OK, I am gonna have to read this through a few more times.

So hit cap is complicated anyway, but more complicated now due to a bug. When I look at the armories listed in lofi's thread, the hit stat is all over. Just comparing nelf hunters, I see a range from 11 (5.96%) to 22 (11.92%) and numbers scattered between. That points right back at my question: how do you determine the correct number? If Lìl has twice the hit of Moonseeker, is one of them wrong, or are they just geared with different goals?

First, one should ask: what does armor do, at least approximately? When is armor helpful? Answers to those (obvious) questions are enough to answer the quoted question, especially the "when are they helpful?" part.

Ok. Armor reduces damage taken from physical sources, so armor is helpful when you are hit with a physical attack. In endgame discussions, armor is considered when determining "effective health" but I couldn't tell how much Earl's Pally valued armor when selecting gear. He advises serpentis gloves and gloves of the hero for holy paladins. I looked at Hands of Encouragement and even Algae/Skeletal wondering if armor values had been considered in that decision. Another comparison was his advice to take Uninsured Bracers over Most Trusted. I don't know what the current values are, but my napkin math made it look like every point of armor was almost like having 1 more effective health. Am I way off?

 

[Franciska]

Ha! Those are obvious answers? OK, I am gonna have to read this through a few more times.

So hit cap is complicated anyway, but more complicated now due to a bug. When I look at the armories listed in lofi's thread, the hit stat is all over. Just comparing nelf hunters, I see a range from 11 (5.96%) to 22 (11.92%) and numbers scattered between. That points right back at my question: how do you determine the correct number? If Lìl has twice the hit of Moonseeker, is one of them wrong, or are they just geared with different goals?
[

8 Hit is the ranged hitcap (at 24 that is, its 6 for level 20), its physical like melee. But since Ello´s and Eyepatch both come out on 11 hit and they are both pretty much BiS, its kind of a no brainer to have them both. Lil´s Bow has the best top end damage and gives some extra crit, putting it above Moonseeker´s bow. Lil somehow uses Shadowcraft shoulders but i don´t think Hunters use Spell Hit for anything at all. However most use Aluwyn´s in the leg slot, Smelting Pants can give some extra crit in adjunction with Black Wolf Bracers instead of Serra´kis.

 

[Goesid]

8 Hit is the ranged hitcap (at 24 that is, its 6 for level 20), its physical like melee. But since Ello´s and Eyepatch both come out on 11 hit and they are both pretty much BiS, its kind of a no brainer to have them both. Lil´s Bow has the best top end damage and gives some extra crit, putting it above Moonseeker´s bow. Lil somehow uses Shadowcraft shoulders but i don´t think Hunters use Spell Hit for anything at all. However most use Aluwyn´s in the leg slot, Smelting Pants can give some extra crit in adjunction with Black Wolf Bracers instead of Serra´kis.

hunter needs spell cap for pet spells aswell. Which is 15.

 

[Lil]

Please mention me next time.. Just clearing up that isn't my normal set. I was just farming the zombies outside guru so that's my hit set. My normal set has boa gun and 2 resil trinkets with mail shoulders.


My reasoning for my setup is hit cap is 8 and with eyepatch and ello's like fran said I get 11 which is 4.48% I believe or something like that.. Can't remember atm. With my gloves I get 2.03% exp.

I read somewhere that for pet spells you need 3% cap and the formula is your hit (.5) + your exp (.5) = pets hit. So mine would be 2.2% + 1% >3%. That maybe wrong but that's what I read from forums so Idk where this spell hit stuff came from but since I got foreman's and have 11 hit I have yet to miss a pets attack

 

[Goesid]

Please mention me next time.. Just clearing up that isn't my normal set. I was just farming the zombies outside guru so that's my hit set. My normal set has boa gun and 2 resil trinkets with mail shoulders.


My reasoning for my setup is hit cap is 8 and with eyepatch and ello's like fran said I get 11 which is 4.48% I believe or something like that.. Can't remember atm. With my gloves I get 2.03% exp.

I read somewhere that for pet spells you need 3% cap and the formula is your hit (.5) + your exp (.5) = pets hit. So mine would be 2.2% + 1% >3%. That maybe wrong but that's what I read from forums so Idk where this spell hit stuff came from but since I got foreman's and have 11 hit I have yet to miss a pets attack

yes expertise is spell cap so 11 + foremans is cap.

 

[Stix]

This is what the cloth looks like