5.2 making prot pally OP?

[Holypowah]

No...

What a delightful response.

 

[youakim]

Warlocks in Cata had more burst, I know for a fact you didn't play one so please just stop insisting you know something you've never experienced.

 

[Kibbies]

Warlocks had burst? No. Warlocks were free kills that had no mobility and one easily broken CC that they'd be lucky to get off once. A few locks were under some delusion of not being free kills by being able to take out undergeared scrubs.

Panda locks got a CC and mobility buff. Everyone got a HP buff and a damage Nerf. Locks were no exception to this.

in cata you could time a bane of doom up with a soulfire then insta soulfire and it did some impressive burst. A well played lock could be a pain in the ass for the other team and its ashamed they got robbed of their dots that made them so fun to play.

 

[Deadvulcano]

I fought against the best locks of this bracket and never lost. Ever. Period.

/afk

 

[Holypowah]

Name one person that ever beat me 1v1. That's right, there isn't one.

There probably is but there isn't any proof.

 

[Mialo]

Name one person that ever beat me 1v1. That's right, there isn't one.

Hmm, wait a minute. I did. Or I would if you wouldn't have AFK'd right after I bursted through everything you had

 

[Mialo]

You and the three or four other people your tunnel visioning of me prevented you from noticing perhaps, unless you're suggesting you ever played without an escort. That would be like saying I never quit games.

You're 100% right like 50% of the time. I'm just saying Ret's weren't 'hard' to kill. Not nearly. Not as a kiting class atleast.

 

[Holypowah]

Only thing you've ever got right.

I know enough.

 

[madhombre]

Name one person that ever beat me 1v1. That's right, there isn't one.

wow, you must be the best player in the whole universe

 

[verh]

Back in Cata, warlocks didn't even have burst at this level; most of their damage came from DoTs. Burst is a new thing for warlocks in MOP now that destructo can do alot of damage in a short amount of time.

This is completely wrong. Warlocks used to have the third best burst, after hunters and rets.

 

[Dramatized]

Mages on the other hand, they did lose some important CC, in the form of improved counterspell, which made mages a huge pain for any caster or healer. Mages are free kills now. During Cat, mages were vastly superior to locks. The same can't be said now.

????

 

[Holypowah]

????

Mages in cata had impressive burst and mobility. They had roots, 8 second interrupts & slows and polymorph that is equivalent to fear. Mage burst is instant while warlock burst has to rely on heavy dot damage (bane of doom). Basically anything that can heal gave warlocks trouble since they don't have a proper interrupt.

 

[Holypowah]

This is completely wrong. Warlocks used to have the third best burst, after hunters and rets.

Their "burst" is rather hard to get off. Hell, I have not seen any lock in cata burst properly.

 

[Dramatized]

Mages in cata had impressive burst and mobility. They had roots, 8 second interrupts & slows and polymorph that is equivalent to fear. Mage burst is instant while warlock burst has to rely on heavy dot damage (bane of doom). Basically anything that can heal gave warlocks trouble since they don't have a proper interrupt.

Yes, exactly my point. In cata, Arc Mage were probably the most OP spec/class, while Warlock were one of the wekest (all specs). Then to see @Ardiel state that "Mages were vastly better than Warlocks" is just a pure lie.

 

[Holypowah]

Yes, exactly my point. In cata, Arc Mage were probably the most OP spec/class, while Warlock were one of the wekest (all specs). Then to see @Ardiel state that "Mages were vastly better than Warlocks" is just a pure lie.

wait what

 

[Yde]

So, should I rename this thread, since the topic seems to have drastically shifted?

I was thinking "Squabbling About How Warlocks Were By People Who Didn't Play Warlocks"

 

[Holypowah]

So, should I rename this thread, since the topic seems to have drastically shifted?

I was thinking "Squabbling About How Warlocks Were By People Who Didn't Play Warlocks"

To be fair, this thread didn't have much potential to begin with.

 

[Yde]

Yes, letting it go on because the first topic seems to have been discussed enough, so I guess some arguing about locks is alright. Just keep it polite, everyone. ^^

 

[SallyG]

"Squabbling About How Warlocks Were By People Who Didn't Play Warlocks"

As someone who didn't/doesn't play a F2P lock, I think I'd like to weigh in here as well...

 

[rsq]

was thinking "Squabbling About How Warlocks Were By People Who Didn't Play Warlocks"

This is very funny.

I think there are some core things that people do not understand about the difference between cata and mop warlocks. In mop, there's no place for warlocks/mages in the meta because their CC is not as effective as a healer. Simple and plain, that's one of the reasons they are weaker. If we were capable of bursting down a target in the 8-12 seconds we could keep a healer cc'd it would be a different story. This simply isn't the case and generally our CC will DR into nothingness before we're capable of taking someone down. Once our CC is DR'd, it takes one stupid flash heal and the health bars are reset. However, the fight isn't reset; our health/mana bars may be at full, but I've blown all my cooldowns and my CC is DR'd while the enemy healer has a free reset that's not on a cooldown.

As for now...

Panda locks got a CC and mobility buff. Everyone got a HP buff and a damage Nerf. Locks were no exception to this.

On the surface, it appears this way. Agreeably, Demonic Leap is the best thing to happen to warlocks in MoP. However, with the change in meta all of demo's mobility is backed up with poor damage and makes us a second-rate class that can be somewhat evasive but can't reliably secure kills, unlike some of the other classes that received increased mobility and increased relative damage (looking at you, paladins, druids, warriors, priests). And yes, while there was a damage nerf to all classes the relative damage from class to class is messed up. What's even the point of playing a warlock when you can be outdps'd by a healer that can stealth and do higher burst than you OR a non-dps spec that can do higher damage than you and heal? Of course, warlocks bring fear to the table but as a general rule their lack of damage makes us second best.

Of course, one could say Destro makes up for this. True; destro's burst is remarkable but they have the major pitfall of having little to no mobility. In essence, this makes them worthless against any opponent with a brain. Even an arcane mage should be more effective than a destro lock.

Which brings me to...

Their "burst" *was* rather hard to get off.

And this is true. However, this is the core of what many of you are misunderstanding about warlocks. Our skill floor was raised while our skill cap lowered. In cataclysm, a bad warlock was BAD and it was very clear to the team; they had too many skills, many of which did damage but should only have been used situationally. In MoP, it's hard to be a bad warlock. Destro turrets do enough damage to be noticeable threats, even when spamming one button. Anyone could play that. Demo has a mobility spell on a 10s cooldown. If you use it every 10s it will keep you alive more often. Again, not an exceedingly difficult spell to use. In cata, Warlocks had many many spells and used a handful of them exceedingly rarely. Frankly, this made for some really fun game play.

My opinion of course, but I consider the CC and mobility to be superior to what you consider burst, and I consider meaningless damage.

As to our missing mobility/cc in cata? We made up for that by being a MOBILE class. We had three, count 'em, THREE dots that could be cast while on the run and tick decent damage while we sought the perfect position to stand still for a fear/immolate/UA. And while our burst was difficult to get off, it was very rewarding and worth its effort. The same can't be said of warlock 'burst' in mop. Taking away our mobility and (in Demo's case) replacing it with a movement spell is, in actuality, a nerf to the class theme or (in Destro's case) making us turrets without offering us a number of spells that can be cast while on the move is a nerf.

In their current state, warlocks and mages are certainly not broken but require a dps teammate to be effective. Having poly/fear + an ambush is devastating. It is, however, exceedingly frustrating that the classes can't stand up on their own against an intelligent opponent. They are decent team fights - but hey, let's face it, sometimes you just want to have a solid 1v1. I've stopped dueling on my warlock as I can know pretty much the outcome of every fight, regardless of my opponent's skill level. I've said it before and I'll say it again, MoP 'ruined' f2p by taking all of our effective skill caps and halving them.


tl;dr... The MoP change in meta made damage casters far less desirable than anyone with access to a heal or any physical dps classes as they now do less damage and offer less useful team utility.

P.S. I seem to remember some post DV made about time spent in WoW and the degree you'd have irl? I seem to have found a topic for my thesis...