Fixing level 80s

Aelobin

Aelobin

DK Twink (80 / 85 / 101)
    • Time to compile a list of issues that need fixing at 80 (and 81-89 too if you want).

    I made a thread like this a while ago when Blizz asked for low-level class balance feedback, but obviously nothing was done about it. I have hope that they may listen to us this time, now that loads of people are twinking out 80 pallies to exploit the vengeance bug and level 80s have been soloing some bosses that 85s/90s can't do yet.

    If you can include viable solutions too, that would be a lot more constructive.


    Major Issues
    ​

    Vengeance Bug
    - Issue: Due to client/server lag, using a damage reduction cooldown at the exact same time that an incoming hit lands results in the full damage being taken but the damage reduction is still reversed when calculating vengeance. This is extremely powerful with level 80 prot pallies as they can reach 99% damage reduction with Shield of the Righteous, which increases their vengeance by 100s of thousands (sometimes even millions) with correct timing. This bug will also be having a very minor affect on level 90s, since it happens with all damage reduction cooldowns.
    - Examples: Elegon, Feng to 18%, Stone Guard, 8/8 DS, LK 25H, Halion 25H, City Boss, Confirming the theory on a DK
    - Solution: Not sure how it would be fixed. Can vengeance not be calculated from the damage dealt before mitigation instead of needing to reverse it?
    - Reported via: Forums, Twitter, In-game Tickets.

    MoP 409 Items
    - Issue: Several ilvl 409 BoE items were added in MoP which have a required level of only 80 (plus an ilvl 417 shield). That's like using Dragon Soul heroic items on a level 80 instead of 85, and it has caused some major problems with stat inflation at that level. Many dps specs can do more dps than a level 90 can and defensive stats are equally as overpowered (more about avoidance capping below).
    - Examples: 7/8 DS heroic, 8/8 DS normal, Halion 25H in 1 min, ICC 25H in 40 mins
    - Solution 1: Change the level requirements to 85+, but this may anger many people who have spent several thousands buying these items for their characters.
    - Solution 2: Drop the ilvl down to 359, 308, or some value in between. 359 was the highest ilvl item obtainable before MoP (the alchemy trinket) and 308 is the ilvl of Cataclysm items that a level 80 can wear. The items for levels 81-84 would also need changing.
    - Reported via: MoP Beta Forums, Twitter, In-game Tickets (I think?).

    Avoidance Scaling
    - Issue: Since the changes in the MoP beta, it seems like the amount of parry you get per point of strength is a lot higher than it should be (and possibly the same for agi to dodge too). This (combined with the stat inflation from 409 items) has allowed some classes to reach 109% avoidance, making them completely unhittable against a level 83 WotLK raid boss. Death Knights can even reach 124% which makes them unhittable against a level 88 Cataclysm raid boss (Baleroc says hi).
    - Examples: Baleroc 25H, Chimaeron 25H
    - Solution 1: Reduce the amount of avoidance gained from each primary stat at level 80.
    - Solution 2: Increase the diminishing returns at very high levels of avoidance (something like 50-75% and above).
    - Solution 3: Introduce a cap for parry and dodge so they can't go over a certain value (40-50% each? Or 75% total?).
    - Reported via: MoP Beta Forums, Twitter.

    Minor Issues
    ​

    Fire Mage DPS
    - Issue: Although balancing classes below the level cap isn't a priority, mages are an extreme case that should be looked at. That isn't to say that other DPS specs don't need a numbers pass too (they do!).
    - Examples: 1.8mil dps across 3 targets (using Plague Scientist), 910k peak single target dps (Pre-Hotfix, using Plague Scientist), Alysrazor

    Random Heroics
    - Issue: We can no longer queue for random WotLK heroics and when we queue for specific ones, we can't get JP from the bosses if there is a level 81+ in the group.
    - Solution: Re-enable the random WotLK heroic queue for level 80s, and either split the queues/groups by level or grant JP even when some group members are 81-82.
    - Reported via: MoP Beta Forums (I think?).

    Wintergrasp Removed
    - Issue: Level 80s can no longer queue for Wintergrasp and it's sorely missed :(
    - Solution: Allow 80s to queue for Wintergrasp again! Maybe in a different queue/instance to level 85s and 90s.

    PvP Gear Costs
    - Issue: The costs for level 80 (Wrathful) PvP gear were never reduced.
    - Examples: 1650 honor for the Wrathful chest but only 175 honor for the Brutal chest.

    Broken Set Bonuses
    - Issue: Several of the old set bonuses became broken due to the spell changes that occurred with MoP's release.
    - Examples: Mage T10 2P
    - Reported via: MoP Beta Forums

    Herald of the Titans Trivialized
    - Issue: In Cataclysm, Herald of the Titans lost a lot of its value because level 80 players could use level 85 consumables (food / flasks / potions) and some profession enchants (tailoring / leatherworking / engineering / inscription). With the changes that MoP brought (uncapped vengeance / increased avoidance from str and agi / MoP profession enchants) the feat of strength became even more trivial, to the point where it can actually be 3 manned.
    - Examples: Herald of the Titans with 3 people
    - Solution 1: Fix the avoidance scaling, make profession enchants require a certain ilvl, and increase Algalon's health pool to account for tank dps with the new vengeance.
    - Solution 2: Change the criteria of the achievement to only allow the use of enchants / consumables that were available during WotLK.

    Bugged Encounters
    - Issue: Some WotLK encounters have been affected by other changes.
    - Examples: 1 minute blind from the Rogue in Trial of the Crusader, Prot/Ret Paladin mana problems on General Vezax
    - Reported via: MoP Beta Forums, In-game Tickets.

     
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    80 - PvP. The honor cost of Wrathful items must be drastically reduced. You should be able to purchase Wrathful items in every slot for a total cost of less than the 4000 honor cap.

    I think the reason the 70 bracket is/was so popular is because of the Brutal gear being so cheap. You enter a 70 closed bg and everyone is decked out in epics, having proper resilience and a fighting chance. You enter the 80 bracket and you'd be lucky if you're not the only geared player in there, with most everyone in their questing greens and blues.

    It's not fun to enter a closed bracket with no more than the 2-3 PvP pieces you managed to accumulate honor for on your way to 80, getting 1 shot (literally) and dying 30 times per bg. No one will put up with this on their way to grind a full set, thus people leave the bracket early. This needs to change if the 80-84 bracket is ever gonna become as good and fun as it has the potential to be.

    85 - PvP. Is there a Cataclysmic vendor yet? Is it on the way?

    At the moment this bracket doesn't suffer as much from ridiculous burst damage as the 80 bracket due to less stat scaling, plus that many players still have their epics from the Cata days - BUT as the bracket grows, which it is, more and more will make new characters to play in it and this is when it'll suffer the same problem as the 80 bracket if the Cataclysmic gear also have a crazy high honor cost.
     
    There is a cataclysmic vendor, alas the gear is still the same cost as back in cata! Will spend much time farming for that gear. I agree with givecake on that point. Also, i'd like to point out that the 463 (non upgraded) spear of xuen needs a nerf bat now! Feral druids are rediculous at 85 because of it.
     
    Wintergrasp and the ability to queue for heroics at our level. I hate the cata dungeons after over 100 runs each.

    Regarding honor costs. They do need somewhat nerfing, but I don't want to see it at the level of brutal or the GM/HW gear for 70s and 60s respectively. Wrathful gear on a character simply requires you to put effort in. The biggest issue currently with the costs is that because wintergrasp and heroic spam have been effectively removed, the only way to get honor is via voa, directly going to heroics, the occasional bg queue and raiding. (throught jp conversion). Reduction is fine, but I don't want a full set costing less than 4k honor. You're supposed to work for it.

    MoP gear. I'm suggesting that all of the MoP gear be adjusted to a more suitable level. If 81-84 gear isn't pointed out enough it may end up being missed, then the bracket will lean on being "You have to be 84 or work really really hard to kill anything". I don't like getting beaten by compositions that require little-to-no skill to do anything (80s balance druids are similar, but it's just like frost mage was in cata)

    As for avoidance, all you need do is halve the scaling. 60% pure avoidance at best is all tanks have gotten really in the past, so it'll make things that bit more reasonable (when we 3manned herald, I was approaching 50% avoidance with almost no pure tank gear, which is crazy stupid)

    something about letting 81+s queue for stuff and removing our jp from it.
     
    What I want to know is how are we really going to get this stuff to blizz... They obviously really care about old content... I just don't see them going out of their way for us anytime soon.

    I mean they haven't even bothered to fix the arena glitch so that our exp has to be turned on before we can que or we get kicked out. And that's for ALL the brackets.

    Obviously they haven't been trying too hard for us, PLUS I don't think we have enough of us in this bracket or the others (that will cooperate) to help us bring Blizzards attention to the issue at hand.
     
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