29 twinks killed their own bracket now their complainning to blizzard to merge xp on and off.

Yoshiana

Yoshiana

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    • https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/merge-the-low-lvl-pvp-brackets/2206246/11

    Just like i predicted , not only do you have major class imbalance you got lvl 29 priest doing 4.1-4.4k holy fire damage one shotting people, lvl 29 hunters doing 41-4.3 aimed shots. Not only is the xp off brakcets dead. Xp on is dead to, because prior it was buffed up with twinks keeping low que times, and with herlooms being the main objective to get with honor/justice. Now hierlooms can be bought with money and pvp is to unbalanced even at max lvl with healers tanking 3-4 dps. Folks are also using classics versions.
     
    To be honest, Blizzard deserves just as much of the blame as XPoff 29s. Blizzard should make the trial account cap at level 29 and let the F2Ps twink. That said, what the fuck did the 29s think was going to happen? Each one of them could have made a level 20 twink and keep the bracket balanced and get the benefits that come from having a subscription making creating level 20 twinks easier but like so many idiots throughout history they honestly thought they could just keep hunting a species without it ever going extinct. Now they're wondering where all the passenger pigeons have gone.
     
    Gotta agree with Pook here, we could also add the discutable (to put it mildly) handling of low-level scaling by Blizz.
    Early level BGs are a mess and even when scaled at 29 with our "low" stats of 20 the spells now deal so much damage (the attack/spell power multipliers alone are nonsensical) that any form of defensive play becomes way harder than it really should be for more balanced games.
    Yeah sure, maybe max level PvP can be balanced with relatively bigger HP stats but we all know how that HP to damage ratio works at lower levels.
    Maybe that makes sense during levelling, I'm no game designer, but I strongly doubt they really thought about it seeing as levelling is always made faster and faster.

    Aside of that our f2p twinking community always had some kind of unfairness. Before 29s bullied 20s, 20s bullied levellers and before that (to a lesser extent admitedly) vets bullied trials.

    I use the word "bullied" as a relatively accurate image. For vets vs trials, it's mostly a matter of convenience and some useful items, for 20s vs levellers a lot of us wouldn't have minded being only amongst ourselves (not that I ever really was a PvPer tbf) but sadly the solution was to be grouped with 29s and for 29s I suppose it is their bracket and that's prolly a good enough justification ?

    Pretty funny to see some 29s clamoring for merged queues though.
    I doubt we'll really ever get what we want from blizz and wargames -at least for now- may very well be the best thing to work on.

    The only problems are that people on the internet are not always ready to think for more than themselves, some folks just want to bully weaker opponents (gear-wise generally) and the twinking community in general is home to enough cunts to, if not stop, at least slow down potential progress.
     
    I don’t like 29 twinks either but merging xp on and off brackets could be the move for pugs. If it gets like early bfa again us 20s can always make a 29 for pugs and wargames on our 20s. I would do anything for constant pugs again.
     
    Given that we see basically zero to no activity in classic even with merged queues. I doubt we would see that much of an improvement in queue times retail if it was done (even though I want it to happen, every little bit helps).

    SL was truly the last golden time for 20s activity. Brackets were separated and basically all twinks consolidated on 20s as their source for random BG pugs.

    There were some levelers to fill games. But most games were filled in by 20 twinks.

    The issue is that it wasn’t enough for people. They had to form premades. And then the premades had to form syncmades. And by that time blizzard had to do something about it, which brings us here.
     
    Pookamhura said:
    To be honest, Blizzard deserves just as much of the blame as XPoff 29s. Blizzard should make the trial account cap at level 29 and let the F2Ps twink. That said, what the fuck did the 29s think was going to happen? Each one of them could have made a level 20 twink and keep the bracket balanced and get the benefits that come from having a subscription making creating level 20 twinks easier but like so many idiots throughout history they honestly thought they could just keep hunting a species without it ever going extinct. Now they're wondering where all the passenger pigeons have gone.
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    20s could "also" just make a 29 w.e and they wouldn´t cry about anything... Nope, lets blame 29s and lets keep removing them from BGs, bcs thats what the dumb people do, when they need to cry ^^

    Imagine even blaming the 29s in the first place :KEKW:

    "29s killed their own bracket" that gotta be the dumbest thing i read all fucking year....

    What about those retarded 20s who keeps removing 29s out of BGs? Ever thought about that??
     
    Yoshiana said:
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/merge-the-low-lvl-pvp-brackets/2206246/11

    Just like i predicted , not only do you have major class imbalance you got lvl 29 priest doing 4.1-4.4k holy fire damage one shotting people, lvl 29 hunters doing 41-4.3 aimed shots. Not only is the xp off brakcets dead. Xp on is dead to, because prior it was buffed up with twinks keeping low que times, and with herlooms being the main objective to get with honor/justice. Now hierlooms can be bought with money and pvp is to unbalanced even at max lvl with healers tanking 3-4 dps. Folks are also using classics versions.
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    I mean at the end of the day we all just want for games to pop the argument that 29s are bad because they like to farm weaker opponents in BGs is true for the most part but that is not exclusive to 29s, that is kinda what all people that twink do, get the best gear play the best class and farm people and at 29 you atleast have the freedom to play a class/spec that is generally weaker because you unlock new talents, abilities and gear with obviously the majority of opposition doing less damage than you (which is not true in some cases) the numbers that you pointed to I would argue resemble more of what 20s can do. 29 numbers are way higher I would say 6k holy fire and 5-10k aimshots. As long as there's some 29s fighting each other the BGs stay as balanced as they were if you had a full set of 20s some bis some no gear at all, some skilled some clicking their spells and backpeddling i've myself played a few BGs on my BiS lvl 20 Frost DK on EU (which is basically compiled of a 100% 20s) and im consistently getting oneshot by instant Lightning Bolts from Stormkeeper shaman hitting up to 7k or Aimshot/Holy Fire y'all get the drift. I personally would have liked to see a comeback on Legion templates with TWW buttons but now that midnight already increased our stamina by 100% from what we have now and them removing buttons going even further to standardize gear disabling enchants/trinkets and consumables would be a bit too boring for my taste they should however still merge XP on and XP off as it's better to have a choice than for the queues to just not pop
     
    Wow. Lots of cope. 20+ twinks had their chance to have real bgs once their characters weren't obsolete anymore, just to squander it and kill queues by actively queuing on them with no self-imposed restrictions. If you genuinely enjoy facerolling characters with 9 less talent points than you just because you have the ability to again, you should not be pretending to care about bracket health or whining to blizzard. Kind of an adhom to complain about the person rather than the argument though, so, yes bracket merging would be a good idea with actual balancing inside of it. Unfortunately that cannot be expected of blizzard.

    Classic actually has had a lot of success with merged brackets with levelers, it was implemented in wrath and the leveler:twink ratio of power wasn't that different, especially in lower brackets. In retail, the difference between even 29 twinks and 20 twinks is outrageous, couldn't even imagine how powerless levelers would be without a template system.

    Excited to see nothing come of a forum post, yet again, and watch 29s resort to inhouse 29 wargames that are hilariously worse than golden twinkies inhouses. Shoutout to life for creating a real pvp space for 20s without edgelord 29s farming seething shore. Come play classic though, tbc is just around the corner with 3 active brackets not dependent on 1% of 1% of 1% drops for bis :slight_smile:
     
    Penster said:
    Wow. Lots of cope. 20+ twinks had their chance to have real bgs once their characters weren't obsolete anymore, just to squander it and kill queues by actively queuing on them with no self-imposed restrictions. If you genuinely enjoy facerolling characters with 9 less talent points than you just because you have the ability to again, you should not be pretending to care about bracket health or whining to blizzard. Kind of an adhom to complain about the person rather than the argument though, so, yes bracket merging would be a good idea with actual balancing inside of it. Unfortunately that cannot be expected of blizzard.

    Classic actually has had a lot of success with merged brackets with levelers, it was implemented in wrath and the leveler:twink ratio of power wasn't that different, especially in lower brackets. In retail, the difference between even 29 twinks and 20 twinks is outrageous, couldn't even imagine how powerless levelers would be without a template system.

    Excited to see nothing come of a forum post, yet again, and watch 29s resort to inhouse 29 wargames that are hilariously worse than golden twinkies inhouses. Shoutout to life for creating a real pvp space for 20s without edgelord 29s farming seething shore. Come play classic though, tbc is just around the corner with 3 active brackets not dependent on 1% of 1% of 1% drops for bis :slight_smile:
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    The leveler:twink ratio of power not being that much apart in Classic is cope. I don't know if you did but I have actually played some 10-19 and 20-29 games as a leveler and it was horrible.
    You can't compete unless you twink or got more twinks on your team which has always been the case let's not kid ourselves here.
    Altough the reason it might appear as though the power ratio not being that much different or balance in general being better is simply due to our own distorted view of balance created by the mess that is now called retail wow where a rotational ability does twice your HP in damage so when that doesn't happen we automatically think the bracket is balanced.

    I would argue it's more balanced being a lvl 20 against 29s on retail especially with your character scaling to 29 in BGs than being a lvl 10 against 19 twinks in Classic even more so if you play a fotm spec like holy priest that is actually able to kill 90% of 29s in a single chastice holy fire combo. Even though believe me I know it doesn't feel balanced because everything just happens too fast.

    Fazit: I think all twink brackets of different expansions are imbalanced to a certain degree.
    I also think if we all had a lot more HP on retail and abilities didn't do a ridiculous amount of damage the hate for 29s would diminish a lot because people have more problems with the scaling than they do with 29s but they rather funnel all their hate into 29s because the words can reach their eyes and ears unlike Blizzards x9
     
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    Azazel said:
    20s could "also" just make a 29
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    Except they can't F2Ps are capped at 20. Only subscribed players can make a 29. Love it or hate it but the truth is as long as Blizzard keeps the bracket pay-to-win then there are always going to be 20s in the bracket. There are some people who have one subbed account and one F2P account because they love the challenge of being a level 20 twink but for a large number of people from economically depressed regions the trial account is literally the only way they can experience the game.

    It makes more sense for players in this bracket to restrict themselves to a level 20xpoff toon for the health of the bracket (which a lot of subbed players are willing to do) than for 29s to bully the 20s to extinction. There are clearly not enough 29xpoffs to carry the bracket on their own so if you want to PvP in the 20s you have to include the F2Ps or you simply won't have the numbers to make it work.

    At the very least limit it so that there is the same number of 29s on both sides of the BGs. It can actually be a fun dynamic to have a team of 3 Daddy Twinks and 7 Baby Twinks going up against a matched team. But when one side is running 9 Daddy Twinks and the other side has 8 Baby Twinks it doesn't work. If people would show a little restraint and intelligence an stick to 20s only we would probably have the best bracket for PvP in the entire game but when you've got people playing the game like they're getting back at the fact their dad never said he was proud of them you're gonna kill the bracket.
     
    Pookamhura said:
    If people would show a little restraint and intelligence an stick to 20s only we would probably have the best bracket for PvP in the entire game but when you've got people playing the game like they're getting back at the fact their dad never said he was proud of them you're gonna kill the bracket.
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    Immense cope as layed out previously EU is already doing this and people are oneshotting each other left and right - vets playing the most fotm comps, everyone using bugged trinkets and running premades on voice I don't get how that's less life threatening to the average f2p than having a 29 backpeddler in the BG.

    The fact that there are so much 29s on NA and they still got better pops than EU despite EU being full of 20s speaks for itself simply having the bracket be compiled of a 100% 20s is not gonna save the bracket or make the gameplay much better it's just an excuse for minmaxers to abuse on a 20 and say "well i am level 20 you cant say anything"

    20-29 bracket with 29s has worked forever and was actually the norm before f2p's were made a thing but even beyond that (WoD, Legion) all had 29s, they were only considered a real problem when the bracket went XP off, the gearing was super boring and repetetiv (Dragonflight) and the scaling being abhorrent in TWW. Again people are deflecting from the real problem because the 29s are actually the only ones who will listen to their rants and they know Blizzard won't move a muscle for them
     
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    These forums have had some version of this exhausting argument going for over a decade now. Any time ques are merged we have to go through this. It's time to move past who's to blame for killing casual ques and start asking what youre going to do.

    NA 20s have organized and are playing wargames 2 nights a week and have been all expansion. By all accounts, its a fucking blast.

    EU 20s seem to have taken over the random BG ques and are content with those.

    So what are 29s going to do? If you want to pvp on your twinks, what is your game plan going forward? Are you going to organize WSG wargames? Arena nights? Duels in Goldshire? You dont really need a whole lot of people to have a vibrant pvp scene. So whats the plan? Because right now thats the only conversation worth having.
     
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