Shamans and haste

Snack

Snack

Salty
Ok, some of you might have seen this before, but I just wanted to get some brainy people to take a look at this. I have done some thinking about haste on a lvl 1 shaman, I have based my math on this build, chardev 9, where I have switched between 10 haste and 16 SP on gloves, and 22 Int on Devout Aurastone Hammer and 20 haste on Repurposed Lava Dredger I have also included zerk and LB in some of my calculation. Keep in mind that I have no idea how or if haste scales, the more you get.
I dont know if my math is correct, but could you please take a look at it :)

Full haste - LB - zerk. 33 + 35 + 20% = 85.8 + 91 + 20 = 196.8. (1.5 / 100 * 196.8) / 2 = 1.476. 1.5 - 1.476 = 0.024sec casting time.
SP - LB - zerk: 2 + 35 + 20% = 1.514 + 91 + 20 = 112.514. (1.5 / 100 * 112.514) / 2 = 0.843855. 1.5 - 0.843855 = 0.656145sec casting time.

Full haste - LB: 33 + 35 = 85.8 + 91 = 176.8. (1.5 / 100 * 176.8) / 2 = 1.326. 1.5 - 1.326 = 0174sec casting time.
SP - LB: 2 + 35 = 5.2 + 91 = 96.2. (1.5 / 100 * 96.2) / 2 = 0.7215. 1.5 - 0.7215 = 0.7785sec casting time..

Full haste: 33 = 85.8. (1.5 / 100 * 85.8) / 2 = 0.6435. 1.5 - 0,6435 = 0.8565sec casting time.
SP: 2 = 5.2. (1.5 / 100 * 5.2) / 2 = 0.039. 1.5 - 0.039 = 1.461 casting time.

Here I have used an SP build with 16 SP on gloves, if I was to use another build with 22 int on wep + shield and 10 haste on gloves it would be like this:
SP: 12 = 31.2. (1.5 / 100 * 31.2) / 2 = 0.234. 1.5 - 0.234 = 1.266sec casting time.
 
Haste will lower your casting time and your global cool down (1.5 sec). Haste is kinda tricky in that while it can lower your spell casting time to miniscule numbers, it can not lower your GCD past 1 sec.

So, even if you can cast a lightning bolt every .7 sec, you have to wait for the GCD to come up every 1 sec. So in effect, there is a hard cap on haste. I believe when you hit 50% Haste any more is worthless. The exception being melee classes, because auto-attack is affected by haste, but not the GCD. Hunters stack haste period!

As for haste scaling, it does in multiplicative way not an additive way. For example: 10% haste and 15% haste = 26.5% (1.1 * 1.15 = 1.265) and not 25%

Haste rating is additive though. 1 Haste rating and 10 Haste rating = 11 Haste rating

So for level 1, the numbers look like this:

1 Haste = ~2.6%

Bloodlust / Heroism / Time Warp / Ancient Hysteria = 30%
Berserking = 20%
Lifeblood = 35 Haste rating or 91%
Counterweight = 20 Rating or 52%
Glove enchant = 10 Rating or 26%
BoA Trinket = 1 Haste rating or 2.6%
BoA Trinket = 1 Haste rating or 2.6%

Basically mix and match till you get 50% as a caster...after that, trade for stamina, int, spell power....whatever your gearing plan desires

For a more detailed thought. This is how much each one reduces cast time on by :) You divide the time it takes to cast the spell by the percentage of haste.

Code: 
[URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=403&lvl=1"]Lightning Bolt[/URL] (1.5 sec cast at lvl1)

Lifeblood = 39% Haste

So 1.5 / 1.39 = 1.07 sec cast, or .43 sec reduction

Lifeblood = .43 sec reduction
Berserking = .25 sec reduction
BoA Trinket = .04 sec reduction
BoA Trinket = .04 sec reduction
Counterweight = .51 sec reduction
Glove enchant = .31 sec reduction

Keep in mind you're not adding these together, because haste multiplies. This is just a general idea if you put X piece of equipment on, you get Y result.

To do all the maths yourself, here are the steps, formulas and conversions.

Step 1 - Add haste ratings together
Step 2 - Multiply haste ratings by 2.6%
Step 3 - Multiply haste percentages together
Step 4 - Divide cast time by haste

1 Haste Rating = 2.6% Haste
Haste Scaling = Item % * Item %
Haste Rating = Item rating + Item rating
Cast time = Original speed / Total Haste %
 
Last edited by a moderator:
chubs said:
Haste will lower your casting time and your global cool down (1.5 sec). Haste is kinda tricky in that while it can lower your spell casting time to miniscule numbers, it can not lower your GCD past 1 sec.

So, even if you can cast a lightning bolt every .7 sec, you have to wait for the GCD to come up every 1 sec. So in effect, there is a hard cap on haste. I believe when you hit 50% Haste any more is worthless. The exception being melee classes, because auto-attack is affected by haste, but not the GCD. Hunters stack haste period!

As for haste scaling, it does in multiplicative way not an additive way. For example: 10% haste and 15% haste = 26.5% (1.1 * 1.15 = 1.265) and not 25%

Haste rating is additive though. 1 Haste rating and 10 Haste rating = 11 Haste rating

So for level 1, the numbers look like this:

1 Haste = ~2.6%

Lifeblood = 15 Haste rating or 39%
Berserking = 20%
BoA Trinket = 1 Haste rating or 2.6%
BoA Trinket = 1 Haste rating or 2.6%
Counterweight = 20 Rating or 52%
Glove enchant = 10 Rating or 26%

Basically mix and match till you get 50% as a caster...after that, trade for stamina, int, spell power....whatever your gearing plan desires

For a more detailed thought. This is how much each one reduces cast time on by :) You divide the time it takes to cast the spell by the percentage of haste.

Code: 
[URL="http://www.wowhead.com/spell=403&lvl=1"]Lightning Bolt[/URL] (1.5 sec cast at lvl1)

Lifeblood = 39% Haste

So 1.5 / 1.39 = 1.07 sec cast, or .43 sec reduction

Lifeblood = .43 sec reduction
Berserking = .25 sec reduction
BoA Trinket = .04 sec reduction
BoA Trinket = .04 sec reduction
Counterweight = .51 sec reduction
Glove enchant = .31 sec reduction

Keep in mind you're not adding these together, because haste multiplies. This is just a general idea if you put X piece of equipment on, you get Y result.

To do all the maths yourself, here are the steps, formulas and conversions.

Step 1 - Add haste ratings together
Step 2 - Multiply haste ratings by 2.6%
Step 3 - Multiply haste percentages together
Step 4 - Divide cast time by haste

1 Haste Rating = 2.6% Haste
Haste Scaling = Item % * Item %
Haste Rating = Item rating + Item rating
Cast time = Original speed / Total Haste %
Click to expand...

Ok, I fully understand the 1 sec gcd thing. but I kinda just tried to figure out if my math was right, and if it was possible to get your Lightning Bolt to like 0.1sec cast :p

But I see I have done at least one thing wrong, LB isnt 35 haste as I thought, only 15 :p

But I dont fully understand this part, maybe its my bad english :p
chubs said:
Step 1 - Add haste ratings together
Step 2 - Multiply haste ratings by 2.6%
Step 3 - Multiply haste percentages together
Step 4 - Divide cast time by haste

1 Haste Rating = 2.6% Haste
Haste Scaling = Item % * Item %
Haste Rating = Item rating + Item rating
Cast time = Original speed / Total Haste %
Click to expand...

Lets say I got 3 items/enchants giving haste, I got my 1 haste trinkey, my 1 haste head and my 10 haste gloves enchant. Then you say add them together, ok 1 + 1 + 10 = 12. Then multiply them with 2.6, 12 * 2.6 = 31.2. Now multiply haste percentages together?? 31.2 * 2.6 = 81.12?
I was thinking of doing this instead, (1 * 2.6) * (1 * 2.6) * (10*2.6) to calculate each items haste percentage, but when multiplying them, it gives 175.76%?

And now divide cast time by haste, 1.5 / 81.12 = 0.01849.....
1.5 / 175.76 = 0.00853...

Im not worried about your technique, just the way Im using it :p

Could you please explain it? I get the part with 1 sec gcd and not getting unessecary haste above 50%, but maybe explain how you do the above math with an example? :)
 
yeah...a bunch of numbers on a screen...sorry :) You've got it down and your maths are right, step 3 is too vague.

Basically, you want to add up all of your items that give haste rating first and get their percentage. Then you multiply that percentage with any items or buffs that grant haste percentages. For level 1's I think it's basically Bloodlust/Heroism and Berserking from the troll racial that give a haste % instead of rating.

I'll use your real life scenario:

Your haste buffs:
1. Swift Hand of Justice - 1 Rating
2. Enchant Gloves - Minor Haste - 10 Rating
3. Tarnished Raging Berserker's Helm - 1 Rating

Step 1: Add Ratings Together
1 + 1 + 10 = 12

Step 2: Multiply Haste Ratings by 2.6%
12 * 2.6% = 31.2%
@ this point, you need 18.8% more to be haste capped for GCD

Step 3: Multiply Haste Percentages Together (If you're not using Beserking or Bloodlust, skip this step)
31.2% (from items) * 20% (from Berserking) = 57.44%
@ this point, you are 7.44% over haste cap. GCD is stuck at 1 second

Step 4: Divide Cast Time by Haste
With Beserking: 1.5 second (Lightning Bolt) / 57.44% = .95 second cast (you have to wait .05 seconds after it casts before you can cast another because of the GCD)

Without Beserking: 1.5 second (Lightning Bolt) / 31.2% = 1.14 second cast
 
Snack said:
Ok, I fully understand the 1 sec gcd thing. but I kinda just tried to figure out if my math was right, and if it was possible to get your Lightning Bolt to like 0.1sec cast :p

But I see I have done at least one thing wrong, LB isnt 35 haste as I thought, only 15 :p

But I dont fully understand this part, maybe its my bad english :p


Lets say I got 3 items/enchants giving haste, I got my 1 haste trinkey, my 1 haste head and my 10 haste gloves enchant. Then you say add them together, ok 1 + 1 + 10 = 12. Then multiply them with 2.6, 12 * 2.6 = 31.2. Now multiply haste percentages together?? 31.2 * 2.6 = 81.12?
I was thinking of doing this instead, (1 * 2.6) * (1 * 2.6) * (10*2.6) to calculate each items haste percentage, but when multiplying them, it gives 175.76%?

And now divide cast time by haste, 1.5 / 81.12 = 0.01849.....
1.5 / 175.76 = 0.00853...

Im not worried about your technique, just the way Im using it :p

Could you please explain it? I get the part with 1 sec gcd and not getting unessecary haste above 50%, but maybe explain how you do the above math with an example? :)
Click to expand...
Lifeblood gives 35 haste when 150 herbalism.
 
BoudThe1Twink said:
Lifeblood gives 35 haste when 150 herbalism.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I have no idea about lvl 1's, but thank you :)

chubs said:
yeah...a bunch of numbers on a screen...sorry :) You've got it down and your maths are right, step 3 is too vague.

Basically, you want to add up all of your items that give haste rating first and get their percentage. Then you multiply that percentage with any items or buffs that grant haste percentages. For level 1's I think it's basically Bloodlust/Heroism and Berserking from the troll racial that give a haste % instead of rating.

I'll use your real life scenario:

Your haste buffs:
1. Swift Hand of Justice - 1 Rating
2. Enchant Gloves - Minor Haste - 10 Rating
3. Tarnished Raging Berserker's Helm - 1 Rating

Step 1: Add Ratings Together
1 + 1 + 10 = 12

Step 2: Multiply Haste Ratings by 2.6%
12 * 2.6% = 31.2%
@ this point, you need 18.8% more to be haste capped for GCD

Step 3: Multiply Haste Percentages Together (If you're not using Beserking or Bloodlust, skip this step)
31.2% (from items) * 20% (from Berserking) = 57.44%
@ this point, you are 7.44% over haste cap. GCD is stuck at 1 second

Step 4: Divide Cast Time by Haste
With Beserking: 1.5 second (Lightning Bolt) / 57.44% = .95 second cast (you have to wait .05 seconds after it casts before you can cast another because of the GCD)

Without Beserking: 1.5 second (Lightning Bolt) / 31.2% = 1.14 second cast
Click to expand...

Ohh very nice!! I understand it perfectly now! :D

About the hard cap I have done some math to find it, sorry if I sound like I dont belive you, I am just really bored and want to see the proof with my own eyes :), I've simply used your formula, [Spell Casting Time] / (haste in %) = New casting time.

Since I want the new casting time to be 1, and the spell casting time is 1.5 all I need is the haste it requires for hard cap:
(x = the haste % needed to get hard capped)
1.5 / x = 1
x = 1 * 1.5
x = 1.5
Meaning you need excact 50% haste to get hard capped, excactly like you said ;)

Really nice work chubs, you really seem like a good tinker :)
 
:) sorry for the lifeblood mistake...I've been redoing all of One's professions each Darkmoon Faire for extra tokens and so I never go past 75 skill....I've fixed it in the original post.
 
how do you do 3 without deleting 1?

i keep engineering...then rotate herbalism, skinning, and mining each dmf for a total of 4 profession quests
 
What can you use Engi for at lvl 1?

And is Engi, Skinning, Herb and Minning the only profs available at lvl 1?
 
Snack said:
What can you use Engi for at lvl 1?

And is Engi, Skinning, Herb and Minning the only profs available at lvl 1?
Click to expand...

Just Skinning, Herb, and Mining can be gained at level 1. Engineering and Tailoring were obtainable for about 2 weeks right before cataclysm, but the bug has been fixed :(

Rough Dynamite - Item - World of Warcraft ftw
 
just takes one senior lvl gm on his way out the door.....

/crossfingers :) lol
 
There is several 10% haste auras you can use appart from the troll racial and heroism and the 80 haste drums incase you want to stack haste.
 
Djaeb said:
There is several 10% haste auras you can use appart from the troll racial and heroism and the 80 haste drums incase you want to stack haste.
Click to expand...

My plan wasnt to get as much haste as possible with buffs, auras etc., it was to find a good built and the most suitable race for a shaman. A built that wouldnt get me below 1sec casting time, and still let me have some SP.

And I think, with Chubs help (ty :D), I have found that I will roll with BoA mace - 22int, Shield and 10 haste to gloves, for a 1.14sec casting time and around 40 SP :)
 
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