Rogue - how to beat a Hunter in a duel

I dont have the answer sorry :D



I was hoping to get some ideas off other rogues and or hunters.



My rogue is Subtlety, she has stealth on cloak, insignia of the horde.



I just cant seem to get anywhere near a hunter when in stealth for Backstab without being seen. This is against hunters that dont even have cats eye goggles.



Pet stuns/webs/ccs me hunter then slows me and jumps around shooting me from range drops a frost trap if I get any where near them, disengages and runs around the frost, shooting me all the while.



The only time I can really have a chance is if my poison procs and they get slowed or my recombobulator shrinks them and reduces their run speed and AP.

This is not a QQ :rolleyes: But really a rogues stealth has been completely negated by hunters, and I might as well get a bow and have pot shots at them, since I cant seem to get near them.

Its different in a BG, with all the other stuff going on, but one on one its a real pain.

Any suggestions most welcome.
 
hm well i don't think you should open with backstab. try to use cheapshot instead. that way, you can stealth + attack them from any direction and you can put a poison on them. if you still have problems...



the main thing you should do is LoS if you can.



if you can LoS, usually you can kill a hunter's pet. if the pet is still alive and well and the hunter comes over to get out of your LoS, you can try to melee the hunter instead.



once the hunter gets range on you again (via concuss or wingclip or trap) you can either sprint after it or LoS again.



if you're at midfield the best you can do is chase after the hunter, and attack the pet if it's on you. perhaps if they concuss you and get lots of range, you can switch directions and get out of their range. if you can get crip to proc on the pet, then you can basically kite it while chasing or running away from the hunter.



basically, your plan should be don't chase after them outside, let them come to you indoors.
 
i have a 29 troll rogue, i have him spec'd sub, 3 points in MoD, he has cloak with +12 agi and a change out with stealth enchant. i use duel crippling poison. overall i have no problems sneaking up on hunters. but i don't overly focus on getting the BS/ambush. on hunters i usually open with cheapshot, this ensures i usually get several hits on them and have poisoned them. once crippled they are easier to deal with. even if they disengage, i vanish, sprint, cheapshot again. you have to get them into a panic mode where they forget things like dropping traps....this happens when you can stay in their face



the problem my rogue has is with dwarves and NE. dwarves hit the stone skin and they are poison free/resistant till it times out. that is getting nerfed next patch. when WOTLK released all classes 10 base resistances were removed and replaced with 2% spell resistances. NE have 2% nature spell resistance, the problem lies with Blizz, they have poisons classified as spell and works based on spell mechanics on some aspects, but not others. meaning a rogue would see no benefit by spec'ing with +spell power enchants to boost poison damage. so when you fight a NE hunter you will see a occasional "IMMUNE" or "RESIST" when you are hitting them with poisoned blades. you also see this on dwarves in stone skin



i have played alliance also, my gnome rogue in 29 used to see this fighting BE and tauren hunters/other classes within those 2 races. so a alliance rogue doesn't have it any easier



GOMER-mannaroth-ruin



add on: now if your talking a duel and not in BGs, that is tough because they know what to expect. as soon as the duel goes into effect, they will drop a trap. they know you are the only one to fight and will up "detect stealth" instead ot "track humanoids" like they use most of the time in BGs. dueling a hunter as low-level rogue, you are missing many tools like blind, kidney shot, shadowstep, etc
 
This is easy. Just don't duel them =P. Or hope you have backup in a BG, when not if they start to kite you.
 
Yep i was mainly talking about one on one duels, and yes they always have track stealth.

I found latley that most hunters in BGs run around with Track hidden rather than humanoid too.

I know I certainly do on my hunter, flick it to humanoid when i enter a building to see whats in there, then back to stealth, to avoid nasty suprises.



I must admit i tended to use cheapshot on druids and shamans in their animal forms, i must have been blinded by my need for big crits on using Backstab/ambush.

I will definetely be using cheap shot more and on humanoids, try and get the crip proc off, then its a more even playing field.



Thanks for the replies....
 
yep. hunters will use track hidden most of the time. just switching when in fight or looking for inc on a node in AB or looking for enemys in wsg. but they will always switch back to hidden.



a crip proc is nothing a good hunter will care about. anti venom is keybinded and will free them in a sec. dunno much about 29 rogues duelling hunters, but as there is no blind available it may be viable to trinket the CS. disengage/hunters/snare and the rogue is dead. LoS and kill the pet won't be possible, cause the hunter will force his pet back and heal it. and don't even think about bandaging...you got a dot tickin.

if you are able to bandage while the pet is away, he will do the same. your initial burst is gone and you are runnin around with a hunters mark.



i killed decent rogues with my 24/25 huntress and thats without frost trap.

be sure to have a throwing weapon to switch in for the naga bow.
 
There are a lot of answers here and none of them are foolproof. If you're fighting a good hunter who knows how to antivenom there's nothing much you can do. There are a few tricks to give you a shot though.



First, like they said, open with cheapshot. My rotation after the cheapshot of a hunter I really want to kill is Backstab, thistle tea, backstab, wait for energy, gouge. Expect they will disengage after the gouge is up, and toss a grenade where they're about to land (being pro helps there) bust your sprint, go after em. Most likely you'll get trapped here. If you want a guaranteed victory, pop a fap. If you dont care that much/dont use faps, then trinket the freezing trap, or if he uses frost traps (is smart) you trinket the conc shot. Gouge every time the cd is up, and be sure to save up your energy once you get close so you can antivenom/vanish/cheapshot all relatively quickly.



Rly though, after all this, if they are a pro hunter you lose anyways. With that rotation, you should be able to take out pretty much every baddie backpeddler out there though.
 
Not much I can add here, other than try to pick your dueling area to fit your strengths. I've been able to kill a hunter or two by getting them to unsuspectingly duel near a small building or near a corner. I stealth (in cat, as I'm a druid) and then lie in wait for them to come to me. Not sure if it'll work with a rogue, but worth a shot...
 
well this is a general way to approach a fight with any class, but the key is to always be aware of what the other person is trying to do to you.



with a hunter once you get to them, odds are they are going to drop a trap then disengage, so as a rogue you want to think about how to "counter" these tactics. for traps, you can vanish bug or trinket freezing traps, and in 3.1 the same for frost traps, but theres more you can do than that.



if you have a hunter in a cs, when its about to end you know the hunter is most likely going to do some combination of trap/disengage (btw you should probably dismantle toward the end of cs so they cant simply disengage conc shot), so first of all, just like running away from priests at the end of a cs to try to get them to waste their fear, you can move away from a hunter so they cant drop a trap on you and have it set off immediately(with frost traps, its worth almost anything to avoid setting them off).



next is the disengage. put yourself in a hunters perspective... odds are youre freaking out because a rogue is on you and thats not good, so youre trying to get your trap down then gtfo, so basically you know the hunter is going to disengage as soon after the trap as they can, so try to predict the disengage with a gouge... that way you can back on to the hunter without them being able to run away or even shoot at you if they arent already dismantled. also something to keep in mind is that a good hunter will probably be aware of the terrain before disengaging, so if you fight a hunter that does that, wait for them to position themselves so they arent going to disengage into a hill 2 inches away, then gouge.



so if that all goes well you are on the hunter and they have a long disengage/trap cooldown so you should probably be able to kill them or get close (if not make sure you get bleeds up for the next trap/disengage set so they cant get away and bandage). also note that rng sucks so when you get to the hunter after the disengage, when dismantle ends or immediately if it wasnt up at all, pop evasion to avoid them wing clipping you and getting away because of some fluke poison proc drought. (against dward hunters you should save evasion for when they stoneform i think).



the best tip i can give you for this situation though: play swords! ive played 29 rogues for a long time, with a decent mix of all specs, and now i only play combat swords, because imp sprint, imp gouge, and endurance make hunters sooo much easier to deal with, and ive found that rogues really dont have much trouble with other classes (except priests, not for long with the mana regen change though) so losing those big dagger crits in exchange for being able to deal with hunters is a trade off well worth making.



and something i left out in this post is what to do when the hunter uses their longer cds, i.e. trinket/stoneform. and really, i dont know. i havent found a pattern consistent enough in hunter trinket/stoneform useage to really make a general strategy in dealing with them. in general though, try to have evasion when the hunter stoneforms, because if theyre on top of you itd be bad if they wing clipped you and got away. if you can, save your gouge for the stoneform, since its best for the hunter to be sitting in a gouge while the stoneform duration ticks away. so i guess you have to think quickly when the stoneform comes, first trying to gouge, then popping evasion either at the end of the gouge or as soon as you know you cant gouge them (i.e. its on cd or it doesnt land).



with the pvp trinket, all you can really do is try to be aware, because its really not that useful if you are paying attention. a hunter can potentially use it to break out of a cs/gouge/poison... all of which they are probably in because you are on top of them, so just be ready for the trinket, then get a poison back on them right after. if you notice a pattern in how the hunter uses their trinket, then save energy for when they are going to use it, and either gouge, or use a special to increase the chance of getting a poison back up as soon as they use the trinket (not too soon though, they get 1 second immunity to cc/slows after using it i think?).



and i saw someone mention nature resistance too, which i saw a good amount of on cyclone because people frequently used 15 nr to cape to get resistance to poisons/roots/purges. as far as i know, nature resistance no longer effects the chance of these landing. im "pretty sure" that when spells were made so that they "miss" rather than "resist" they became immune to the effects of resistances. so i think binary spells (i.e. spells that eiter hit or miss) like poisons will have a proc rate unaffected by spell resistances, although poisons like any spell have a base resist chance (another good reason to go swords =) ). im not really to sure about that last paragraph though, so itd be cool if someone could confirm/deny that with actual proof.
 
Like what others have stated , hutners have track hidden so if you try to open with a backstab or ambush then you're screwed. But I believe if you open with a cheap shot or sap then it'll all work out fine. Just hope to god that your poisions proc and slow 'em down so they don't get range on ya. Also with my rogue (retired) in the 19/29 brackets I used to always single out the hunter's pets and then go for the hunter. But thats just me.



I hope some of this is useful to you in some way.
 
dual Crippling. nuff said.

it's the number one killer of my mage.
 
19/29 rogues do not have a chance against a fully twinked hunter that knows what he does. Hunters just get all their awsome tools before rogues do (Kidney Shot, Blind, Premeditation). Lvl to 39 and enjoy killing huntards with ease =)
 
well, it is not impossible...but the chances are low.



in 39 a hunter will remain a powerful opponent, but you got tools to counter their tactics. almost equal chances to win the fight.
 
While I can comment on the 19's, rogue's can beat hunters pretty easily if they know what they're doing.
 
I didn't really read the whole way through this, just skimmed it. I almost never die from hunters unless caught out in the open. I use crippling poison on both weapons and if caught in open, trinket, sprint, and hit him hard. If you do start from stealth always open with cheap shot, backstab, then DISMANTLE. Almost no one really uses this and I have no clue why. It dismantles their ranged weapon. Ja mon now. You dismantle that, they ALMOST ALWAYS disengage when cheap shot finishes, by then you should have dismantled and, awwwww, poor hunter got away from the rogue but he can't shoot can he? Your crippling poison should have procced, by now the hunter is freaking out cause he has crippling poison on him, he can't shoot, and that's when you slowly make your way towards him and own him hard. Same thing when you're caught in the open, most hunters don't seem to disengage till you actually hit them once, hit him with dismantle, he'll disengage, and he's sol again.
 
Druiddroid said:
from what i've heard, 29 dwarf hunter > rogue > 29 non-dwarf hunter in 1v1 arena.



/agree, unless of course the dwarf hunter you're playing is a noob and doesn't use stoneform effectively.
 

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