Ret Pally Weapon

[Aristeia]

Bonebiter seems like it would be a better choice than Lumbering Ogre Axe, seeing as their damage ranges are the same, Bonebiter has better stats, and will swing faster. Yet everyone I've asked has said Lumbering Ogre Axe simply does more damage, can someone explain why?



I've heard that slower weapons have a better chance to proc SoC but that's the only imaginable reason I could think of why LoA would be better. Halp =3

 

[Druiddroid]

SoCommand will proc more, that's the best reason to get it.

another reason would be to be able to joust a bit better, especially with your 15% movespeed...if there's a melee you're facing with a faster weapon, you can use BoF + pursuit of justice to get away from additional attacks, then move into melee range everytime your autoattack is up. in the time between attacks you can also LoS casters (indoors mainly).

 

[Aristeia]

So the only reason is SoC procs then?



Because the jousting thing is fairly irrelevant with the same damage range.

 

[Powerglove]

bonebiter seems like it would be a better choice than lumbering ogre axe, seeing as their damage ranges are the same, bonebiter has better stats, and will swing faster. Yet everyone i've asked has said lumbering ogre axe simply does more damage, can someone explain why?



I've heard that slower weapons have a better chance to proc soc but that's the only imaginable reason i could think of why loa would be better. Halp =3

el doraaaaaaaaaaaaado

 

[Aristeia]

el doraaaaaaaaaaaaado

Hehehehehehehe

 

[Weiland]

Seal of Command works off of a proc per min system. I dont recall exactly how many times it procs but lets just say its 7. This means that no matter what your weapon speed is you're going to get an average of 7 procs in 1 min.



Unless it's changed in a recent patch the damage from Seal of Command does 56% of your white swing damage. Meaning that if you hit harder you will do more damage on SoC procs.



Put these two points together and you can see that with a faster weapon that hits more, but for less damage each hit (lets say 500 per swing) you're going to get



.56 * 500 * 7 = 1960 damage from SoC in a min, where x is the modifier for SoC in relation to your white swing.



Where as if you have a slow weapon that hits harder (say 600) , but in fewer swings giving you



.56 * 600 * 7 = 2356 damage from SoC in a min, x being the same modifier as before.



So you would get more SoC damage from a slower weapon that hits harder, even if its has less dps or worse stats. You just have to see if the damage you lose from white swings is greater with LoA than the damage you would lose from SoC with Bonebiter.



I think the general consenses though is LoA is more burst damage, while Bonebiter is more consistant damage, and with burst being perfered in pvp, most people go for the LoA.



Did I make that clear as mud for you?

 

[NickeQuick]

Rrrr

Either choice would be good between the two axes. If I had a level 39 ret based pally I would take the Bonebiter because it has better stats and much higher total white damage. While SoC regular damage may not land as often because of the faster speed you can not count on that to always be true. Stats are a guaranteed thing you can count on to always be there. If you are running with a good twink guild most of your damage should come from SoC release as most of your targets should be dead before SoC regular damage makes enough difference to create any impact on your performance. In the best situation you could be in is: savagery on Bonebiter for premades and crusader on Lumbering Ogre Axe to take full advantage of slow speed. There is also the option of The Pacifier, a 2h mace with 4.0 spd, if you are looking for procs.

 

[Aristeia]

@ Weiland: You're kind of confusing the issue about bringing up different amounts of damage per swing, in the case I'm speaking it's a slow weapon vs a fast weapon that hit for the same amount. Could you maybe rephrase your mathetmatics for different speed, but same damage amount per swing factoring in SoC procs?



@Nickequick: I wouldn't want to go crusader or Pacifier for that reason, but ya I see soem of your reasoning here

 

[Weiland]

@ Weiland: You're kind of confusing the issue about bringing up different amounts of damage per swing, in the case I'm speaking it's a slow weapon vs a fast weapon that hit for the same amount. Could you maybe rephrase your mathetmatics for different speed, but same damage amount per swing factoring in SoC procs?

SoC would do the same damage if 2 weapons had the same avereage damage pre swing even if they had different swing times. I can tell you right now though that with the ammount of AP you should be shooting for with a 39 ret pally, LoA will hit harder and produce higer SoC damage because it is slower. While Bonebiter will give you better white, but lower SoC damage because it is faster but has better stats and tool tip dps.



In the end I guess I cant tell you which is definatly better. It all comes down to personal preference.

 

[Aristeia]

SoC would do the same damage if 2 weapons had the same avereage damage pre swing. I can tell you right now though that with the ammount of AP you should be shooting for with a 39 ret pally, LoA will hit harder and produce higer SoC damage because it is slower. While Bonebiter will give you better white, but lower SoC damage because it is faster but has better stats and tool tip dps.

So this is something I've never been directly sure about, but does that mean that simply based on slower speed, AP gives more benefit due to slower weapon speeds?

 

[Weiland]

So this is something I've never been directly sure about, but does that mean that simply based on slower speed, AP gives more benefit due to slower weapon speeds?

14 AP increases the dps of any weapon, reguardless of speed by 1.



So lets say we have a weapon that does 100 dps with a 3.0 swing time, meaning the average damage per swing would be 300.



We also have a weapon that does 95 dps with a 3.5 swing time. Meaning that the average damage per swing would be 332.5.



DPS is simply (average swing damage)/(weapon speed)



Now lets say you gain 140 AP so the 3.0 speed weapon will do 110 dps and the 3.5 speed weapon will do 105.



Rearrange the equasion to solve for average damage per swing and you see that.



3.0 speed:

110*3.0 = 330 damage per swing (30 damage per swing increase)



3.5 speed:

105*3.5 = 367.5 damage per swing (35 damage per swing increase)



You're going to need to hit harder to have your slower weapon scale at the same rate as your fast weapon in relation to AP.



I dont know how far along with your pally you are but you can see this on your character screen. Assuming everything else is constant, you will have a higher damage range with LoA than with Bonebiter (thus giving you higher SoC damage with LoA) . But Bonebiter will have higher white dps.

 

[Aristeia]

14 AP increases the dps of any weapon, reguardless of speed by 1.



So lets say we have a weapon that does 100 dps with a 3.0 swing time, meaning the average damage per swing would be 300.



We also have a weapon that does 100 dps with a 3.5 swing time. Meaning that the average damage per swing would be 350.



DPS is simply (average swing damage)/(weapon speed)



Now lets say you gain 140 AP so both weapons will now do 110 dps.



Rearrange the equasion to solve for average damage per swing and you see that.



3.0 speed:

110*3.0 = 330 damage per swing (30 damage per swing increase)



3.5 speed:

110*3.5 = 385 damage per swing (35 damage per swing increase)



You're going to need to hit harder to have your slower weapon scale at the same rate as your fast weapon in relation to AP.

I perfectly understand how DPS works, but you're still using an example that's not really what I'm asking about, let me try and clear it up!



Ok, Bonebiter:



105-159 damage range 3.4 speed



LOA:



105-158 damage range 3.9 speed



So I'm not looking for an example with equal DPS, but equal damage range.



Thanks for helping me out with this though ^.^

 

[Weiland]

I perfectly understand how DPS works, but you're still using an example that's not really what I'm asking about, let me try and clear it up!



Ok, Bonebiter:



105-159 damage range 3.4 speed



LOA:



105-158 damage range 3.9 speed



So I'm not looking for an example with equal DPS, but equal damage range.



Thanks for helping me out with this though ^.^

Thats what I'm trying to say, while dps will scale equally (ie: a 10 dps increase with 1 will give a 10 dps increase with the other), the damage range of the slower weapon will increase more to maintain equal dps increase for both weapons. So at a realistic AP level your damage ranges WONT be equal as they are on the tool tip.



The stats you listed is the damage each weapon would do if you had 0 AP.



Scale the AP up like I did in my previous post and you can see how the damage range changes for each weapon.



0 AP

Bonebiter:

38.8 dps

105-159 3.4 speed





LoA:

33.7 dps

105-158 3.9 speed





650 AP (A resonable estimate for a 39 ret pally)

Bonebiter:

38.8 + (650/14) = 85.2 dps (46.4 dps increase)

394- 448 3.4 speed (289 increase in swing damage)



LoA:

33.7 + (650/14) = 80.1 (46.4 dps increase)

417 - 470 3.9 speed (312 increase in swing damage)



As I've been saying, LoA will do more damage per swing, resulting in more SoC damage.

 

[Aristeia]

Ahh I get it now, thanks for clearing that up =)