Red Whelp Gloves BiS again?

Haste

Legend
    • Well, first of all, I'm talking about enhancement shaman or feral druids.



    Red Whelp Gloves

    Okay, the tooltip of the proc says that every melle hit (non-miss) has a 5% chance, this means that the faster you hit = higher proc chance. Cats at 19 have a 1.0 speed of attacking, its a 1/20 chance that these proc. As the average dmg of the proc is 20, that would add 1 DPS with these gloves. This is just with white hits however.



    For Shamans, a combination of fast weapons, and Flurry could make this viable aswell.



    Thoughts?
     
    1. What do you mean "again"?

    2. Wouldnt be very good for shamans because fast weapons are garbage for enhance

    3. Might be viable for druids due to 1 second attack speed or even faster, not including special attacks.
     
    I mean WAYYY the hell back when they were BiS by again. :p
     
    We need the dude who does all the calculations to work it out, can't remember his name haha :)
     
    At your service.

    (actually no time at the moment for a full calculation because I am watching the blizzcon stream)

    But here is a quick look at the gloves for a druid.

    Like you yourself said the Whelp gloves are 1dps when you have 0 haste and the enemy has 0 avoidance.



    A quick look at the gloves of the fang is +6agi (stam for survival ofcourse).

    Since 4.0.1 cats get 2AP for each agility and they get the a additional +25% AP from Agression.



    So you get 6*2*1.25=15AP from that agility.

    AP increases you dps by a amount equil to AP/14=dps increase

    So that's 15/14=1.071 dps increase.

    However that's only for your white hits.

    The AP also increases your yellow hits.

    Then again the damage from white and yellow hits is then again reduced again by armor. (also avoidance but this is identical to the reduction the whelp gloves get so it can be ignored)



    Now the open Q&A started so will do the rest of the calculations later.
     
    Those gloves were never BiS and are not BiS now.
     
    They were before GoTF came out, but thanks for playing.



    @Trespasser

    Nice. :p So Your the "Calculations" guy?
     
    4/4 monkeys anyone? Red whelp have always been a offset piece, I would never have considered them BiS. Granted it's a moot point. My opinion on red whelp for druids is that it would be fun to have a pair with 10 haste along with glacial stone with 20 haste for a wtfproc set but I would still prefer fang gloves in any serious situation if only for the added stam and set bonuses
     
    So how much dps increase would it give a druid with 30% haste over the other gloves? Also do the gloves have a ppm to calculate into them?



    Like Riv said they sound like a lot of fun with massive haste, 30% is max without lifeblood boost I think anyway.



    Sorry for abusing your mathematical prowess anyway trespasser, everything you post is super helpful.
     
    Well, with 30 haste, your melle attacks in cat form are at .85 speed.



    I don't like doing math, Ill leave it to trespasser.
     
    5% chance is still a chance. Id take the static, and slighty higher DPS increase over red whelp in any situation. Ofc melee hits gets reduced, but when you get extra stamina on the fang gloves, they clearly win, IMO.



    I think you should do like Rivfader set and get a wtfproc set. Some procs combined with engineering bombs could be fun in duels, to confuse the enemy.
     
    Its basic maths guys ^^ Dont leave all the fun to Trespasser :)



    as far as im concerned, haste is BiS for ferals, so we'll just take that as granted since you wouldnt be using these gloves without it.



    so with 30 haste rating it gives 1/0.85 = 1.18 dps.



    6 agi from fang = 12 ap *1.25 = 15

    15/14 = 1.07 whitedps

    1.07/0.85 = 1.26 whitedps



    If your target has more than 7% armour (which is entirely likely) the red whelp gloves will produce more white damage (assuming no fire resistance).



    You now have to decide how much the stamina on gloves of the fang is worth to you. If we take a WSG O situation, with an EFC with 45% armour and again no fire resistancethe whelp gloves will produce 1.18- (1.26*0.55) = 0.487 white dps more than gloves of the fang



    Since atm i am unaware of the level of dps that comes from a feral's white and yellow dps and how many yellow hits/min a feral produces this is inconclusive. When i get my PC working again i'll play around with my feral and recount for a while.



    Edit: In agility terms 0.487 white dps is 3.21 agility (bear in mind this is for white damage and wont be strictly true for yellow hits). This means you can take red whelp gloves (assuming 30haste rating) to have effective stats of 9agility.



    Edit2: Also keep in mind that when you pop herbalism your haste % increases by a large amount, which will increase the effectiveness of whelp gloves. cba to do maths on this though, and i cba to even work out if it increases effectiv ness of redwhelp at a different rate to the effectiveness of agility.
     
    Kore nametooshort said:
    Edit2: Also keep in mind that when you pop herbalism your haste % increases by a large amount, which will increase the effectiveness of whelp gloves. cba to do maths on this though, and i cba to even work out if it increases effectiv ness of redwhelp at a different rate to the effectiveness of agility.
    Click to expand...



    Also increases damage of fangs agility. Agility = more damage. Haste = More hits. More hits doing more damage 'cos of agility. And crit from agility, dodge to.
     
    Lithdk said:
    Also increases damage of fangs agility. Agility = more damage. Haste = More hits. More hits doing more damage 'cos of agility. And crit from agility, dodge to.
    Click to expand...



    Yes, i realise this. However it was not immediately obvious at time of writing whether the haste would increase the effectiveness of whelp gloves by the same scale factor that it would increase agilities effectiveness. Now i realise that it would of course. Sleep is a wonderful thing.
     
    Haste said:
    I mean WAYYY the hell back when they were BiS by again. :p
    Click to expand...



    They never were, people just found them and were like OMG ITS LIKE 2ND FIERY ITS SO GOOD



    But its always been bad lmfao.
     
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