Leadership, patience is wearing thin

Mummified

OG
What, if anything, can I do to prevent my good nature from burning out because of new recruits asking every question you can think of about twinking and help for everything? Doesn't help I'm not an Aussie and in the US playing well into the night, pretty much during their prime time.



I've started this 19 guild on Cael and it's quite well funded. ::shrug:: But as I've mentioned the ability to withstand all the questions and requests is somewhat draining. I've given them links and spend as much time as I can helping them, but at what point does holding their hand through everything become enabling them to never be able to help themselves. I have rolled new twinks on other servers with out an 80 and been entirely self-sufficient to the point of buying my own Shadowfang. Am I just missing the curve on leading? Or is this a typical spot to find ones self in?



It's clear that I'm more experienced at twinking than all of my guildies. Is simply directing them to this site well enough to pass on teaching them every little thing?
 
I think the biggest problem is that most twinks pick the wrong guild or members. Go for people who are somewhat the same age, and at the same level of "twink knowledge". There's nothing wrong with teaching people, but when you get the feeling you're carrying everyone you'll get burnt out pretty fast.
 
Gkick everyone with an IQ below 50, problem solwed.

I have expirienced this situasion myself: Kicked 100+ peeps in a day.

It really helped lol.
 
At our peak we had literally 40 people on a night and I went through the same exact thing. It did take a bit to get to me and when it was getting to the cracking point I assigned what I called class officers. Anytime I had someone that wanted to ask 100 questions - I referred them to the specific class leader on top of various topics within our forums. Just an option for when you get to where you have members you can trust for advice - it solved my problem completely.
 
Try answering question after question about your gear and the quests to get it while grouped with a new guildie in a battle ground. I wanted to AFK out.
 
Coolzo said:
Put this website's address in your guild info and tell them to go there for all their questions.
Click to expand...



it is. along with 4 other informational sites.



For the past 2 days I've had to teach more than 2 people how to install addons. Then describe how to use them. You would think it would be a quick and painless process. One of em, after I said go to wow.curse.com to get an addon. signed up, became a member, did all kinds of other things and was like
ok, where is this thing you wanted me to get?
Click to expand...

That was 20 minutes after I told him where to get the addon.



My problem lays in the fact I'm attempting to turn around my battle group's shit geared player situation around by myself. I'm basically taking anyone and fixing any gear issues they have over the next hr or so after I meet them. Pre 3.1 types who have been clearing content are my main recruits atm, clueless types, some are even right there on the edge of knowing what to do, just need a little help getting there.



I'm afraid I've bitten off more than I can chew. But I appreciate some of the ideas. I guess I'm just going to have to put my foot down and tell them out to be self-sufficient on the whole information situation.
 
I am learning the pains that you share. I am getting absolutely PWNED by PMs, tells, and in game mails each time I log in. I am trying to answer and help each and everyone, but it's tough as shit.
 
Remember the Chinese Proverb..."Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime."



Now you're probably asking what the hell that has to do with your current predicament. Basically what I'm saying is stop giving them the direct answer to their question. Give them outlets to find the answers themselves, such as these forums, Wowhead, BG Forums, etc. In the process, they'll learn a lot more than that one question they initially asked you and will turn to these resources instead of continually coming to your for advice. If they don't care enough to help themselves, they are not worth your time and will only be a hindrance to your future goals of the guild.



Don't give him the answer, teach him how to find the answer.
 
No, I do understand. Yesterday I asked a possible recruit who I was helping finish The Unsent Letter, after we had a bug on The Attack! I told him to open a ticket and talk to a GM, "I'm too lazy" was the reply. "Why should I help you when you can't help yourself?" and I got shit talk in return. Needless to say I told him to have a good one and walked away.



But it goes beyond that. The simple shit you can find on this site and many others is basically the topic of conversation everyday. Which is good, it shows interest. But I'm the one basically setting everyone right on facts. It's not like I'm building a competitive 10v10 situation. Just trying to make my side of the battlegroup a little better off. In other words I'm tired of playing with under-geared people who don't take the time to gear up and prepare.



I don't mean to rant but I do suppose I'm just trying to find some stress relief in the consolation that others share my pain. I can't imagine what you're going through Drayner. I'm not even dealing with 20 people. 140? lmao My prayers are with you.
 
Sorry Mumm, but most people are lazy and just prefer a handout. I have funded and outfitted many "twinks" and know of what you talk about.
 
LOL.... I had a native of Medivh hit me up asking to join our guild. I spammed him with my canned reply that basically asks them if they have read our rules and such. He replied with a totally unrelated question. I asked him again, this time manually (while fighting a boss in AQ20). He said something like, "wait, you want me to go to a website to join your guild". While dead to the Hunter in AQ20, I explained that Twink Info is a guild comprised with members of this website. He replied that all he wants to do is join a guild with other twinks. I again referred him to the website and told him I need him to understand the rules and vision and agree to them. He told me he didn't have time to bother with that stuff. I said, "Good luck. Bye".
 
I laugh at the website thing.



"I have hours and hours and hours to be online playing a game..but I dont have 20- mins to mess with a site."
 
This reminds me of when I was hunter class leader for my old pre-bc raid guild. Even that was a disaster and I got sick of it. More power to you people that attempt to do it, I certainly can no longer deal with it as I'd rather relax when playing a game despite having a generally helpful nature. I completely agree with the "Give a man a fish/teach a camel to drink" concept. If they cannot eventually find things out to do them on their own, or are too lazy to do so, then forget it. Some people just cannot be helped if they cannot do it on their own.



I would think if most people were actually serious about what they actually want with twinking or their twink then they would want to spend the time to go about doing research and making it happen. Unfortunately I would say the majority of the WoW community is lazy which is why the game has gotten much easier/simpler/less time consuming over the years.
 
Ok, some people may disagree with this approach, but i found it to be useful and effective when dealing with new twinks:



1. (x) gets into the guild, starts asking a million simple questions that could be answered with a google search. make a macro to look something to the effect of "/g Look it up."



2. if (x) starts acting immature or is generally a bad twink, call them a noob and kick them from guild.



Now, you might be thinking: "Grunge, thats a horrible idea. it gives twinks everywhere a bad name and it makes me look like an asshole!" The answer to that is yes, yes it does.



BUT!



you must also instil the values of twinking in your guildies:



The Grind: you have to put work and time into a character to really make it a twink. make them do their own goddam runs, your time is valuable.



The Inferiority Complex: When someone beats you/says they're better than you and you're certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're bad and you could beat him, it makes you play more and put more effort into said twink, creating a high quality standard. Do a scrub a favor, call him a noob then kick his ass a few times for good measure.



Never Say Die: Every fight is worth fighting, because you're a twink of the (your faction), and you "aint no PANSY BEATCH like them yellow-livered (opposite faction)!!" Faction pride has gone by the wayside, but you can still inspire your troops with a passionate preaching as viewed above. (Actually used by me in a 5v10 we found ourselves in, rallied from 2-0 to win 3-2 after an hour, it was very intense but we pulled through, we talked of that victory for a long time afterwards.)



TL;DR Be a cigar-chomping, 5 star jerk. The good people will shine through and become good little soldiers, the incompetent will disappear.
 
Some good points here, all around. I use one guiding principle: I set up any help I'm willing to offer by offloading work onto them when I start. If they have a good attitude and want to learn to be a better player, they'll be willing to do the work. I'm not talking extra busywork. I'm talking the kind of work that will benefit them if they do it. The vast majority do not follow through, however, and will either give up or go looking elsewhere for a handout.



What's the best piece of gear for a given slot, given class, in a given bracket? Depends on several factors. Here are some sites you can visit to get a better idea. What's that? No guide to read? Search Wowhead using filters to narrow down your choices. They say it takes too long? Then it doesn't matter enough, does it?



I've talked with coaches, authors, public speakers, teachers, martial artists...professionals who all love to mentor people and help them grow. Unilaterally, they all say that maybe one percent of everyone who asks them for help or advice actually follows through on it. One percent! And they've also learned to start off with a task, to see if the person's really willing to work for what they want. "Read this book, and then Email me when you do, and we'll get started!" Guess what? One percent!



To be sure, I'm not going to send someone away for every little question. But I'll bet most of us recognize when we're being used as a reference library, rather than being asked our opinion.



There are a ton of reasons people don't follow through and help themselves. That's okay. But they have to be temporary reasons, otherwise you burn out. And that's a loss for both you and the people who were worth helping. Think about that for a moment -- you want to help raise the skill and strength of your battlegroup, but you might actually be hurting that by wasting your time with people who don't share your vision! That's why it's so important to be selective.



Once you figure out where on the spectrum you want to play, tailor your guild after that vision. You may lose a lot of people, but you may need to pull those weeds to give the good plants the attention they deserve.



Finally, don't be afraid to delegate. Whether you do it in official capacity via officers, or just casually ask others to help you out, you're one person. As a guild grows, it needs more attention than you're going to be able to give. Yeah, people are going to screw up after you delegated stuff to them. But that's part of the learning process for them, too, and for you in managing the growth and drama of a guild.



If you're not getting a chance to play on your twinks, you need to delegate more. :)



Bwappo
 
I want to thank everyone for their replies. I found a lot of helpful tips and ideas. Unfortunately, I don't have anyone of Officer caliber yet. So I'll have to find other ways of delegating. I may take a few of the lessons and begin to give classes. :p
 
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