Knuckles
Grandfathered
just wondering with the new changes with heroics that if we could find heroic dungeon sets such as (https://www.wowhead.com/item-set=661/doomplate-battlegear) useful or still not worth the loss of secondary stats?
Dungeon sets?
- Thread starter Knuckles
- Start date
villiansv
Veteran
I assume you mean 70s. Mail casters should go for 2-set. Mail physical dps should go for the 4 set. Just about every other class/spec should decide if they like crit, and if so get the 2-set. The 4-set proc is "ok" for leather and plate, but you give up a lot of secondaries so it's probably not worth it. The 4-set proc for cloth is bad and should never be considered.
TL;DR: Mail - YAY, non-mail - NAY.
TL;DR: Mail - YAY, non-mail - NAY.
villiansv
Veteran
Hunters and enh shaman should definitely go for the 4 set. For both 70s and 79s, head/shoulder/chest/gloves set pieces + wyrmscale greaves are BiS. The mail dungeon set is very generously itemised.
I'd also not bother with the 2 set on some healer specs, even if numerically you get more secondaries in the form of crit, but that's just me.
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
Oh, you might be right about that. I don't remember what the BiS lists for mail look like. But even if the procs sim well I'd still be careful about using them in pvp (depending on the exact stat comparisons).
villiansv
Veteran
It's not even worth it to sim for the mail set. The items by themselves in their ilvl 91 version are as good or flat out better than the SWP mail gear. When you add the 2-set and 4-set bonuses on top of that, it's no contest.
In my experience twinking various 79s, I've noticed that the mail dungeon items (the set especially) are very "rich" in secondary stats (if you see my hunter's gear in my sig, he sits at 40% crit/20% haste/4% versa - as opposed to my warrior who has about 38% crit but only 4-5% haste and no versa to speak of). The cloth set 2-piece is ok if you use the correct 2 pieces, same for leather and plate and I agree most specs should take it.
Where imo you need to sim, or decide for yourself, is whether you want the 4-set for leather or plate. The procs are beefy, but you lose a lot of secondary stats, so it will become a question of proc rates and uptime, and of course class/spec needs and playstyle.
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
If that is true then obviously you play with the set, yes.
With the leather set you also lose a considerable amount of stamina, which alone makes it not good for pvp.
villiansv
Veteran
This guy - https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/bleeding-hollow/Ultrajaffar - is probably close to, if not, mail 70 BiS at the moment, though it seems he still hasn't gotten the heroic version of the axe.
[doublepost=1552465174,1552462354][/doublepost]
You don't lose any stam, actually - just from the chest piece, but it's offset by the other pieces. I used your rogue's gear and replaced head, pants, gloves and chest with the 4-set (last I checked, set shoulders weren't dropping, which is a shame). If you were to change to the 4 set you'd end up with:
Head: -1 agi, +3 crit, -1 haste, +3 ap (this is imo better by itself)
Pants: -4 agi, +3 stam, +1 crit, -11 haste (this is worse, but is still the 2nd best piece from the set to use)
Gloves: +3 stam, -13 crit, -8haste, +2 dodge(ignoring this) (crap)
Chest: -6 agi, -6 stam, -10 crit, -8 haste (crap)
So if you go for the 2 set, you have net:
-5 agi, +3 stam, +4 crit, -12 haste, +3 ap + 35 crit from the 2-set bonus. Worth it, imo, unless you have too much crit.
If you go for the 4 set, on top of the above you get:
-3 stam, -6 agi, -23 crit, -16 haste + 65 Agi proc which lasts a decent amount of time.
Adding up, if you wear all 4 set pieces, and assume 1 agi = 1 ap:
-8 agi, same stamina!, +16 crit, -28 haste + the 65 agi proc.
So is 8 agi and 28 haste worth more or less than 16 crit and a 65 agi proc?
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
The shoulders drop, you just have to wait until the last boss in the cryps summons his avatar, then kill it.
The rogue in my signature is pretty outdated at this point. Here is my better geared rogue: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/argent-dawn/pvegirl
Here are the stat comparisons for me (assuming I am already using glove+helm for the 2 set, which I am):
Option 1: (gaining 4 set using leg+chest)
4 agi, 3 stam, 9 crit, 19 haste
VS
agi proc
Option 2: (gaining 4 set using chest+shoulder)
7 agi, 18 stam, 5 crit, 13 haste
VS
agi proc
Option 3: (gaining 4 set using shoulder+leg)
5 agi, 9 stam, 16 haste
VS
6 crit, agi proc
I wouldn't take any of these trades for PVP.
Note: all the leg comparisons are ignoring the fact that I would also lose my grandfathered leatherworking enchant.
Here are the stat comparisons to my items in case anyone wants to double check my comparisons (I rushed them a bit so I could have made errors)
if you do decide to doublecheck them please for the love of god remember to count the socket bonuses (they aren't accounted for in the default blizzard comparison when you hold shift over an item)
villiansv
Veteran
Ah in that case I don't know then, I haven't bothered to look into 70 rogue BiS gear. I just assumed Dreams was in close to BiS.
Also, about the shoulders - I know you have to kill the add, I killed him close to 30 times when working on a rogue, no drops. Read through wowhead comments and a few are also saying they're not dropping. Do you know anyone who got them in BFA? Maybe I was really unlucky, or maybe they only drop in heroic (I tried it in normal, as a 79).
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
It was fixed late into 8.1
Merlin
Grandfathered
any 70s dps caster can try out 2 pc whitemend and 3 pc spell fire for a total of 17% increased in spellpower, it is worth losing the 5% armor bonus, using 5 int/6 stam gems for sockets, and enchants to make up for lost hast and crit
villiansv
Veteran
That's actually quite true. My spriest (in sig) has 1060 spellpower with wizard oil, flask and mage buff. It's ridiculous.