Deathbringer's Will
- Thread starter Vortalex
- Start date
examinerEU
Legend
not for ret imo, deaths choice it.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
it is not a BiS trinket. if youre on a private server just poof yourself a 277 abomb in a jar and a 258 deaths verdict imo....pretty sure those were the BiS trinkets for ret pre 4.0
if youre on a server where you cant just see a vendor for all loot and youre actually raiding...then take it if nobody else like a feral druid or warrior needs it. arp isnt really good for rets and the proc is nice but it doesnt have a huge uptime
if youre on a server where you cant just see a vendor for all loot and youre actually raiding...then take it if nobody else like a feral druid or warrior needs it. arp isnt really good for rets and the proc is nice but it doesnt have a huge uptime
Deadpool1
Legend
this was always a huge arguement when wrath content mattered as i remember it. DBW is for purely PHYSICAL DPS classes ONLY Hunters, Rogues and Warriors and to some extent DKs. But if nobody wants it then by all means go for it if thats what you want but I would rather go for YOUR BIS trinkets instead due to the much better results you will receive.
To give you the extent about how Rets were never aloud to get one heres a story. (my orifinal guild) We are on DBS and it drops. The RL who was also the ML says roll for it. The only ret in the group rolls for it against the hunters, warriors (me and a bud), rogues and DK. the ret wins and all at the same time we say in vent he cant have it he does holy damage as his main source of dps and it is not his BIS trinket. The RL gives it to the ret and the Guild leader immediately guild kicks the RL. Needless to say the pally had to give it up to the guy who had the 2nd highest roll.
The guild leader let the guy back in to the guild. He kicked him to prove a point. You do not give loot to classes that it only half ass benefits before you give it to a class that will use 100% of it.
Once the removed ARP from the game though the restriction was lifted. (the guild I was in before patch 4.0) I remember that patch mostly cuz the AGI wrists that drop from that fight were BIS for warriors until they made non plate items and agility gear worthless for warriors with the patch. Those same leather wrists lead to an arguement with my guild vs my guild master about leather gear going to plate wearers because she didnt know about it those wrists being best in slot at the time and tried argueing that it should go to some druid who wanted to greed roll on it.
Wrath in general was a cluster F when it came to itemization and gear I am so glad it's over.
TL
R if no one argues then get it but keep in mind item level does not mean everything and stat allocation does.
To give you the extent about how Rets were never aloud to get one heres a story. (my orifinal guild) We are on DBS and it drops. The RL who was also the ML says roll for it. The only ret in the group rolls for it against the hunters, warriors (me and a bud), rogues and DK. the ret wins and all at the same time we say in vent he cant have it he does holy damage as his main source of dps and it is not his BIS trinket. The RL gives it to the ret and the Guild leader immediately guild kicks the RL. Needless to say the pally had to give it up to the guy who had the 2nd highest roll.
The guild leader let the guy back in to the guild. He kicked him to prove a point. You do not give loot to classes that it only half ass benefits before you give it to a class that will use 100% of it.
Once the removed ARP from the game though the restriction was lifted. (the guild I was in before patch 4.0) I remember that patch mostly cuz the AGI wrists that drop from that fight were BIS for warriors until they made non plate items and agility gear worthless for warriors with the patch. Those same leather wrists lead to an arguement with my guild vs my guild master about leather gear going to plate wearers because she didnt know about it those wrists being best in slot at the time and tried argueing that it should go to some druid who wanted to greed roll on it.
Wrath in general was a cluster F when it came to itemization and gear I am so glad it's over.
TL
R if no one argues then get it but keep in mind item level does not mean everything and stat allocation does.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
1st off you suck cock for not mentioning feral druids. and DKs were in the same boat as retris, who were seeing a very high dps return for arp near the end of wrath when their other caps were met; for other classes it rates a lot higher.
like i said before, if the other classes have it, or you have a lot more dkp, take it. unless you guys want to go back and farm h toc too. cuz unless you do that then 277 dbw will be "bis" for rets as well.
like i said before, if the other classes have it, or you have a lot more dkp, take it. unless you guys want to go back and farm h toc too. cuz unless you do that then 277 dbw will be "bis" for rets as well.
Deadpool1
Legend
Who the hell ever played feral dps? Seriously show me a feral dps who didn't suck on my server who was worth the raid spot and he could have first dibs back then. The rotation was so over complicated that the majority of people who played it had a hard time doing well with it. The easy fix for them was have an arms war in the party so they wouldnt have to worry about refreshing the debuff that pretty much dictated their dps in a fight and let the warrior do it naturally for them without the risk of it ever falling off.
BTW Heroic Twin Valks was never hard so if they are too lazy to farm it when the place was a giant loot pinata then thats their own fault. The only fight where I could see doing every week would suck is the Heroic Champions fight due to the random set up and constant micro managing in order to net the kills.
Oh and as far as DKs go Unholy only had 2 caster attacks in their rotation while the rest were physical in single target fights (Icy touch and Death coil) cuz as we all know they changed scourge strike to be a physical based attack until cataclysm where it went back to shadow damage being a huge chunk of its damage output. (unholy was also the DKs best PVE/PVP spec at the time) Only frost dps was highly based on magic damage out of the 3 specs.
Rets damage in wrath was 40% physical and 60% holy. Only when they actually hit their stat caps (which only ever happened when they were in full BIS) did it have a significant effect.
As far as DBW patch 3.5 it goes Warrior>Rogue/Hunter>Feral>UH DK>Ret when it comes to who should get it in what priority.
BTW Heroic Twin Valks was never hard so if they are too lazy to farm it when the place was a giant loot pinata then thats their own fault. The only fight where I could see doing every week would suck is the Heroic Champions fight due to the random set up and constant micro managing in order to net the kills.
Oh and as far as DKs go Unholy only had 2 caster attacks in their rotation while the rest were physical in single target fights (Icy touch and Death coil) cuz as we all know they changed scourge strike to be a physical based attack until cataclysm where it went back to shadow damage being a huge chunk of its damage output. (unholy was also the DKs best PVE/PVP spec at the time) Only frost dps was highly based on magic damage out of the 3 specs.
Rets damage in wrath was 40% physical and 60% holy. Only when they actually hit their stat caps (which only ever happened when they were in full BIS) did it have a significant effect.
As far as DBW patch 3.5 it goes Warrior>Rogue/Hunter>Feral>UH DK>Ret when it comes to who should get it in what priority.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
lol im sorry your sever sucks complete ass but feral rotation wasnt that hard and the dps was practically highest in game when geared and played right.
and mangle has a 1min debuff on the boss...it isnt that hard to watch it, an arms warrior is not necessary at all. more signs of downs ferals on your sever, which is sad for us as a whole.
if people on your sever could farm all of h toc but champs, but couldnt comprehend how to play a feral thats sad.
for 3.5 DBW should go warrior=feral=rogue(actually, depends on spec....its not bis for raiding - muti, maybe it is for combat, - iirc)=uh dk>=ehn shaman>ret
and mangle has a 1min debuff on the boss...it isnt that hard to watch it, an arms warrior is not necessary at all. more signs of downs ferals on your sever, which is sad for us as a whole.
if people on your sever could farm all of h toc but champs, but couldnt comprehend how to play a feral thats sad.
for 3.5 DBW should go warrior=feral=rogue(actually, depends on spec....its not bis for raiding - muti, maybe it is for combat, - iirc)=uh dk>=ehn shaman>ret
Deadpool1
Legend
yes the ferals did have serious downs. Their major complaint was mangle and I would just scratch my head at that.
As for rogues combat used DBW as BIS. Oh you left out marks hunters on your priority list.
As for feral being the highest dps when played right I doubt that. No offense but Fury all through TOC and ICC and late ULD did the highest DPS bar none. Why do you think every other my dps is too low thread would site Fury for comparison saying "why is my pure nowhere near a fury warrior when he is a hybrid?".
Not a single thread until patch 4.0 ever mentioned feral druids. Even then it was only PVP compliants about bleed damage and we both know they recently nerfed bleeds into the ground and brought the ferals physical damage up to compensate.
Fury pretty much reigned as champion of the recount meter in Wrath. Now that checking recount every 5 seconds doesnt matter we get to see all the idiots who had no clue about the rest of their toons abilities get owned in cataclysm content while the rest of us facepalm.
As for rogues combat used DBW as BIS. Oh you left out marks hunters on your priority list.
As for feral being the highest dps when played right I doubt that. No offense but Fury all through TOC and ICC and late ULD did the highest DPS bar none. Why do you think every other my dps is too low thread would site Fury for comparison saying "why is my pure nowhere near a fury warrior when he is a hybrid?".
Not a single thread until patch 4.0 ever mentioned feral druids. Even then it was only PVP compliants about bleed damage and we both know they recently nerfed bleeds into the ground and brought the ferals physical damage up to compensate.
Fury pretty much reigned as champion of the recount meter in Wrath. Now that checking recount every 5 seconds doesnt matter we get to see all the idiots who had no clue about the rest of their toons abilities get owned in cataclysm content while the rest of us facepalm.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
uh...ever since ulduar feral was a good spec (when arp came into play and people got closer to crit capping). toc wasnt a great tier of gear b/c it had gobs of hit and expertise and very low arp, but we still had the potential to top the charts on any given fight. in icc it was a friggen joke. with gear got so inflated we could cap arp, hit, expertise, and crit. but even before that we were still dps machines and capable of topping the meters on any fight. im sorry you just started to hear about ferals in 4.0 but we were killing it long before then. the reason so much QQ happened in 4.0 was because we got a real nice dps boost with mastery and the way it scaled at 80.
for pvp feral has never been a high rated spec. which is why all the nerfs piss me off b/c they dont affect high end arena anyways when its all mrp and other comps at the end of a season getting glad.
fury....uh, nah, not really. fury got good at the end of all tiers of content b/c they could finally get enough hit and expertise while getting crit/ap/arp, and get those juicy 2hs from late bosses. after each gear reset they pretty much fell off again till they got the right gear. but even at the end of icc i wasnt losing to any warriors on the dps meters and ive never read a thread complaining about fury being op in pve
for pvp feral has never been a high rated spec. which is why all the nerfs piss me off b/c they dont affect high end arena anyways when its all mrp and other comps at the end of a season getting glad.
fury....uh, nah, not really. fury got good at the end of all tiers of content b/c they could finally get enough hit and expertise while getting crit/ap/arp, and get those juicy 2hs from late bosses. after each gear reset they pretty much fell off again till they got the right gear. but even at the end of icc i wasnt losing to any warriors on the dps meters and ive never read a thread complaining about fury being op in pve
Deadpool1
Legend
Every top guild in the world who did heroic content when it was relevant showed Fury Wars well above Feral Druids on most of the fights between Heroic TOC and Heroic Ruby Sanctum.
Also there were very few progression guilds who ever took feral dps to cutting edge content so I would love to know where you got your info from. It is obvious you play one but you as a player being an outlier and being your only source of an example do not count for the vast majority. All you would have to do is look at world of logs and parses from the top guilds at the time to see that your claims are unfounded and as for never seeing QQ threads complaining about Fury Wars (A Hybrid) out dpsing pures and the QQ it caused then you must not read much or never read a Hybrid tax discussion thread.
Though I do recall seeing plenty of Feral Tanks, Boomkins and Resto druid on parses for end game content. Surely those players cant be who you are refering to?
I am not trolling but challenging you to find actual evidence of your claim and link it. Use a credable source though and this is only speaking towards before that rediculous 4.0 patch that buffed your bleeds and other classes abilities way out of proportion.
Also there were very few progression guilds who ever took feral dps to cutting edge content so I would love to know where you got your info from. It is obvious you play one but you as a player being an outlier and being your only source of an example do not count for the vast majority. All you would have to do is look at world of logs and parses from the top guilds at the time to see that your claims are unfounded and as for never seeing QQ threads complaining about Fury Wars (A Hybrid) out dpsing pures and the QQ it caused then you must not read much or never read a Hybrid tax discussion thread.
Though I do recall seeing plenty of Feral Tanks, Boomkins and Resto druid on parses for end game content. Surely those players cant be who you are refering to?
I am not trolling but challenging you to find actual evidence of your claim and link it. Use a credable source though and this is only speaking towards before that rediculous 4.0 patch that buffed your bleeds and other classes abilities way out of proportion.
OP
OP
Vortalex
The Druid
Deadpool said:this was always a huge arguement when wrath content mattered as i remember it. DBW is for purely PHYSICAL DPS classes ONLY Hunters, Rogues and Warriors and to some extent DKs. But if nobody wants it then by all means go for it if thats what you want but I would rather go for YOUR BIS trinkets instead due to the much better results you will receive.
To give you the extent about how Rets were never aloud to get one heres a story. (my orifinal guild) We are on DBS and it drops. The RL who was also the ML says roll for it. The only ret in the group rolls for it against the hunters, warriors (me and a bud), rogues and DK. the ret wins and all at the same time we say in vent he cant have it he does holy damage as his main source of dps and it is not his BIS trinket. The RL gives it to the ret and the Guild leader immediately guild kicks the RL. Needless to say the pally had to give it up to the guy who had the 2nd highest roll.
The guild leader let the guy back in to the guild. He kicked him to prove a point. You do not give loot to classes that it only half ass benefits before you give it to a class that will use 100% of it.
Once the removed ARP from the game though the restriction was lifted. (the guild I was in before patch 4.0) I remember that patch mostly cuz the AGI wrists that drop from that fight were BIS for warriors until they made non plate items and agility gear worthless for warriors with the patch. Those same leather wrists lead to an arguement with my guild vs my guild master about leather gear going to plate wearers because she didnt know about it those wrists being best in slot at the time and tried argueing that it should go to some druid who wanted to greed roll on it.
Wrath in general was a cluster F when it came to itemization and gear I am so glad it's over.
TL
I probably should have been more specific, but yes agree in 100% what you said.
When it comes down to all the other members already having the item equipped, is it viable? (is what I was asking)
I suppose it's an okay trinket to get for Ret, but yea...
I think I'll stick to my Paragon-ticking Death's Verdict, til I get better ^^ (Even if it is ilvl 245)
Thanks for the help bro.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
Deadpool said:
just look at world of logs to see the dps for icc. you could look at toc and rs too if you want. the funny thing is after looking through them uh dks were by far the most op, and they're technically a hybrid too. hybrid tax is bs...it was only supposed to be 5% or something, but im pretty sure they removed it all together to let the skill of the player shine and not automatically give a "pure" dps class a 5% lead over hybrids.
also high end guilds did definitely use cats. youll see that looking over parses. also tun is an example from ensidia (or w/e they're called nowadays) and theres one on kargath in a high guild (25hm lk down), plus tons of others that ive known on the wowhead forums.