Clarification on what is BiS for Ret

Rockastansky

Rockastansky

Veteran
Seems to be varying opinions. I really just want to wrap my Ret Paladin up once and for all. I'm going strictly from an AttackPower/Vers > then everything else (be that haste, crit, whatever... 7% haste of 17% crit... does not matter to me, too small to be relevant).

1) What is better 2 BASALT Rings of X OR 1 BASALT Ring and 1 Electocutioner Lagnut?

2) What is better Armsmaster's Sealed Locket OR Eternal Talisman of Evasion?

3) Master Engineer's Goggles OR any other helm with Strength and other stats?

4) Is the Combatant's Claymore the best weapon? Unless maybe you get a Blue BG Decapitator of the Adaptable?

Is there any downside for stacking Versatility instead of trying to stack strength? For example.. I can stack strength items and get to around 204 strength (with Alch Flask)... or I can sit at around 180 but have 23% versatility... Is the versatility worth it over just raw Strength/Attackpower... does anything suffer from losing so much strength... like any hidden numbers, etc?
 
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1) idk
2) I think it can be subjective. If you're running with a 5man pug with healers I would go with the dungeon necklace for extra damage, but if you're solo qing or have no healers I'd go with the loom neck for that extra aspect of survivability, just make sure to chant both with satyr and swap when needed
3) Most go w/ the engi goggles the 200 hp and 20+ vers is just nuts
4) as far as I know this is correct

Rockastansky said:
Is there any downside for stacking Versatility instead of trying to stack strength? For example.. I can stack strength items and get to around 204 strength (with Alch Flask)... or I can sit at around 180 but have 23% versatility... Is the versatility worth it over just raw Strength/Attackpower... does anything suffer from losing so much strength... like any hidden numbers, etc?
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whereas str is just extra dmg vers is a combination of extra dmg and extra dmg reduc so I'd say vers

str > vers > crit > haste
but you shouldn't sacrifice huge amounts of vers for a few str points here and there imo
 
Haste over crit on a ret
 
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/dejacharacterstats
+ check your abilities tooltips on which set gives you more dmg. if the damage on the versa set is 1-10 lower than the full str set it's still worth going for vers for the dmg reduction imo

combatant's claymore is most likely the easiest good weapon to obtain, blue bg axe with 1 stat is so rare that it's atleast as a starting point better.
you'll most likely want to get a scaled 26-29 plate helmet from world drops with optimal stats/dung helm instead of the master engineer's goggles, but again you can just check the dmg tooltips on what's better and if you like to transmog your helm into plate or not.
personally i'd go for the pure vers neck and pure vers ring because their damage addition should be a lot higher than the str counterparts.
 
Advice needed:

I can keep around 20% crit with 23% versatility if you do it right.... but I can only have around 7% Haste if you try to keep 23% versatility and lose all the crit... is it really wroth it for only 7% haste? Getting hit with a templars verdict crit is still no joke, and 1 out of 5 is pretty good odds... but only 7% haste seems to do almost nothing... the actual casting times on FlashH is only like .1 second difference (real numbers not the tooltip... as from the last dicussion I know that some people are fooled by what the tool tip says)... At the 39s I get it, you can stack stats better with the dungeon trinkets etc... but here, it just seems like you make a gimp build when you try to mess with haste. Maybe just personal preference.

In order to have a real Ret Rotation at 29, you need about 22% haste, but you are making a real shitty Ret, then... (1) you are just stacking Haste like a Fury Warrior (which is just wrong, period), (2) you have A LOT less strength/Vers so you are casting "faster" heals that do 600ish instead of 900 at .1 sec slower (not to mention a crit is still 1300 in heals), and (3) I feel like there is no real "rotation" for Ret at 29 as you should be playing hybrid support, healing as much as you are doing damage... again personal preference.

I've seen paladins in game that try to just stack haste at like 23% or some crap... not impressed with any of their in game performance... they just do no damage, faster... :p And then you've got guys that play with felforged crit/haste etc... they do more damage in an IDEAL situation, but versus real **ggas they they just melt like butter when focused.

I guess I really want to know where this "Haste" deal comes from... I just feel completely gimped in every BG with Haste... is it just some regurgitation from other brackets/ a previous era? And again I'm not talking about when you have pocket heals and are just trying to do damage... that's also what I could call a "bad ret"... as you could just be another class doing damage far better than Ret.
 
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https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Rockastansky

Think I'm pretty close to wrapping this guy up.

1) I personally don't believe in effective health after you hit 2000hp (I just think you start to gimp out when you worry about it after 2k - unless you are specifically trying for max HP), or I would use the defending/returning champion/brewmaiden/whatever. After 2khp I'd rather just have touch and the Brawlers statue (which I do love versus rogues and fury warriors more so than the Defending Champion).

2) Still messing around with Massacre versus Crusader. Right now I'm running Crusader into a Massacre weapon swap (I just don't think more than 2 ever really happens that often with a non haste build). But, honestly I see lower numbers when I weapon swap than when I just stick with Massacre and hit things. There just are not as many procs as a Fury Warrior gets and I'd rather have every fight just start with max damage that Massacre offers.

3) If a BLUE BG Crate Chest of the Adaptable (or possibly a Quickblade that was stacked heavily on the versatility side) dropped I would put that on instead of the Canine chest.

4) I just don't think there is any other direction to go. 22% Verse is tasty and lets you it like a truck. If I was really going to tweak it out I would aim for 20% crit and 20% versatility. I still believe in 20% crit... 1 out of 5 attacks/heals is worth pushing for as long as your versatility stays above 20%

5) I use all the sharpening stones/alchemists flask/etc... so not much else I can add there.

Any Thoughts?
 
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Tweakedirl said:
Do rets not want crusader?
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As far as Ret goes: I just see no difference than when I swap than when I just don't use crusader and just use massacre (and I do actually swap... not one of these forum fury warrior heroes that claims they do and then gets out of a BG with 50k or less damage... swapped did you? riiiight :p)... could be that I try to off heal others as much as I try to hit things? Or it could be that its just not like Fury/or even arms where you just have lots of proc shit that can trigger crusader all the time. If you are not healing and just trying to hit things, the Versatility build style has huge rotation gaps so there is lot of dead time where you can't even trigger a crusader.. but, I don't think just hitting things at 29 is what you should be doing. Meh.
 
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