Capping at 74?

Cr1ms0nPl4gu3

Legend
Okay so since I've capped I see occasionally people in my battleground that are above 70. I feel like most people who cap above 70 do it because they're bad...but then I got to thinking. Basically I'm just wondering...if you cap at 74 are qs for bgs AND arenas AND rbgs the same q time or are they longer? How does it work exactly?
 
i've seen 74s in arenas before, my guess would be that you need to join a team at 70 then stick with that team ... forever ...

i'd imagine they would all have the same queue time as 70, plus you may even have a lot of fun leveling to 74 through PvP with exp-on players :D



would be a dick move, but hey, do your thang
 
Yeah there are pro's and con's to being 74, and some people do it just for lulz.

First of, they don't need as much hit (if some at all) as you normally would and other players would need quite a bit more hit to be sure to negate all them baddy misses :(



Paladins get wings at 72 (and upranked at 74) and as ret, that's a major boost - this allows them to cast Hammer of Wrath every cooldown. HoW being the paladin execute and you can easily crit 10k+ on a fully res-gemmed healer. Every 6 seconds!

Druids get Cyclone at 74 which is another major boost as cyclone is a massive booster for a CC chain.

Mages get 2/2 improved counterspell regardless of specc.



And there are plenty of other examples, some being more useful than others.



So you might ask yourself: Trololol, why don't everyone level to 74?



Simple - as you may know, the higher level you get, the worse scaling of your rating. You'll lose severe amounts of crit, haste and ultimately resilience percentages which makes 74's a lot more vulnerable to heavy burst than players at 70.



Sure, they might have slightly higher HP and slightly higher SP, but they take a lot more damage than they usually would.

This is why they're stacked on damage gems such as agi, str og int, as they're simply sacrificing too much for damage for too little resilience percentage if they stacked otherwise.



And yes, you have to join and preferably be the leader of a XvX team and THEN level up. But you're forced to stay in the team regardless of stats.



Have fun ;)
 
So just to confirm...if I'm lvl 72 and want my partner at 72 to join an arena team they can't? Even though we're the same lvl? Not saying I'm capping at 72 I'm just giving a random example lol. To have a 74 arena team me AND my partner have to already have been on an arena team and we have to stay on it while we lvl. We can't make one when we are both 71, 72, 73, or 74?
 
Cr1ms0nPl4gu3 said:
So just to confirm...if I'm lvl 72 and want my partner at 72 to join an arena team they can't? Even though we're the same lvl? Not saying I'm capping at 72 I'm just giving a random example lol. To have a 74 arena team me AND my partner have to already have been on an arena team and we have to stay on it while we lvl. We can't make one when we are both 71, 72, 73, or 74?
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That is correct, join the team at 70, then level otherwise you cannot join another team once you lvl to 71.
 
I would strongly reccomend not to stop at 74 instead of 70, the stats loss is not superior to the benefit gained, not to mention that you will never be taken seriously since you are sort off breaking the rules.
 
We need some sort of mini-FAQ on 70 vs. 71+ for this bracket, as this question comes up a lot, and a lot of misinformation propagates around it.



Xtr3m3 got the arena situation right. Willesen1 accurately described how some classes get extra significant abilities at 72 and 74.



Some classes get access to better Northrend gear, but many classes remain better off with either Brutal gear or T6/PvE drops. That's how strong level 70 gear is.



Hit rating remains the same. as a 74, you still need to get hit capped regardless of the level of your opponent. Nobody knows how much hit a 70 actually needs against a 74, because PvP hit rating does not scale the same as PvE hit rating, so the tooltip in your character window doesn't apply, and the numbers people have from 2008 don't appear accurate anymore either.



One of the biggest reasons people move above 70 is for ability/spell scaling. For example, my 74 resto shaman gains 26% to her spells and abilities. That comes out to the equivalent of 1400-1900 bonus spellpower, depend on my spell. Meanwhile, 74s all lose 33% of their secondary stats (hit, crit, haste, resilience, etc.) which is how they get squishier.



Classes/specs that either tend to run glassy anyway or have healing or damage mitigation talents should take a good look at going above 70. Classes/specs that depend more on their secondary stats need to stay at 70. Anyone who does arena should likely stay at 70 not just because you can change arena teams whenever you want, but also because the lost damage mitigation makes a greater difference in arenas.
 
Bwappo said:
We need some sort of mini-FAQ on 70 vs. 71+ for this bracket, as this question comes up a lot, and a lot of misinformation propagates around it.



Xtr3m3 got the arena situation right. Willesen1 accurately described how some classes get extra significant abilities at 72 and 74.



Some classes get access to better Northrend gear, but many classes remain better off with either Brutal gear or T6/PvE drops. That's how strong level 70 gear is.



Hit rating remains the same. as a 74, you still need to get hit capped regardless of the level of your opponent. Nobody knows how much hit a 70 actually needs against a 74, because PvP hit rating does not scale the same as PvE hit rating, so the tooltip in your character window doesn't apply, and the numbers people have from 2008 don't appear accurate anymore either.



One of the biggest reasons people move above 70 is for ability/spell scaling. For example, my 74 resto shaman gains 26% to her spells and abilities. That comes out to the equivalent of 1400-1900 bonus spellpower, depend on my spell. Meanwhile, 74s all lose 33% of their secondary stats (hit, crit, haste, resilience, etc.) which is how they get squishier.



Classes/specs that either tend to run glassy anyway or have healing or damage mitigation talents should take a good look at going above 70. Classes/specs that depend more on their secondary stats need to stay at 70. Anyone who does arena should likely stay at 70 not just because you can change arena teams whenever you want, but also because the lost damage mitigation makes a greater difference in arenas.
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Quote for truth and i will be going thru the 70 or 71 + situation in the guides i have in programm as Ink agreed it was in fact a good idea.
 
Spiritflow said:
I would suggest going to leve, 75 in that case, that way you would get a much bigger advantage...
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Bwappo said:
We need some sort of mini-FAQ on 70 vs. 71+ for this bracket, as this question comes up a lot, and a lot of misinformation propagates around it.



Xtr3m3 got the arena situation right. Willesen1 accurately described how some classes get extra significant abilities at 72 and 74.



Some classes get access to better Northrend gear, but many classes remain better off with either Brutal gear or T6/PvE drops. That's how strong level 70 gear is.



Hit rating remains the same. as a 74, you still need to get hit capped regardless of the level of your opponent. Nobody knows how much hit a 70 actually needs against a 74, because PvP hit rating does not scale the same as PvE hit rating, so the tooltip in your character window doesn't apply, and the numbers people have from 2008 don't appear accurate anymore either.



One of the biggest reasons people move above 70 is for ability/spell scaling. For example, my 74 resto shaman gains 26% to her spells and abilities. That comes out to the equivalent of 1400-1900 bonus spellpower, depend on my spell. Meanwhile, 74s all lose 33% of their secondary stats (hit, crit, haste, resilience, etc.) which is how they get squishier.



Classes/specs that either tend to run glassy anyway or have healing or damage mitigation talents should take a good look at going above 70. Classes/specs that depend more on their secondary stats need to stay at 70. Anyone who does arena should likely stay at 70 not just because you can change arena teams whenever you want, but also because the lost damage mitigation makes a greater difference in arenas.
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Yup its kind of hard. There is so little known for sure about level scaling outside of secondary stats. So it probably not a great idea for classes that depend on crit/haste/resilience. I would be willing to work on a comprehensive guide.



I have heard alot of things from alot of sources about leveling. Here are some examples:



1. That ever level you gain spell resist over someone lower than you that cannot be overcome by hit (This was definitely true at some point. Probably true now)

2. You of course need more hit rating to hit a 74....but as you said we don't know how much.

3. That as a 74 you are crit at the same rating as if the person was the same level as yours (not sure about this one.....I am not writing if off though)

4. Huge stealth detection. My 74 shaman is the bane of rogues everywhere.

5. We know your base damage/healing/stats go up. Health by 1500 or so.

6. 2 additional talent points and some new spells.



I tend to believe that some combination to 2-4 are true to a major extent. I played my resto shaman at 70 then 74 and I currently have a 70 resilience stacked Disc Priest and a Holi Pali.....and I can say with some confidence that my shaman is by FAR the most durable of the three despite the resilience loss. It really is dramatic. Its a big enough of a difference that it makes it difficult to go back to playing my other healers. If #3 is false then imo 2 and 4 are very large advantages indeed.



Also as ele with Auto crit Lava bursts really the loss of crit and hase isn't that big of a deal. (Though I do crutch on Taziks).
 
3 is probably true. cuz since theres no more defense or weapon skills....and resil doesnt modify crit, shouldnt be any change

1 im pretty sure is true, well i know hit and spell pen are different, but im pretty sure higher lvl pvp players have more base resist. also if they have resist buffs those should scale too (shadow protect, mark, mage armor, etc)

2 yup you obvi need more. but should be interesting if someone wants to take that job and do all the testing necessary to find the hit cap against 74s from a 70. cuz from some posts bwappo (i believe) made a while ago he wasnt reporting nearly as many misses as you'd expect if the old hit tables were correct...cuz according to that a 70 has a 20% miss rating against a 74, for spells or something, but he was hitting a lot more. idk
 
To add to Falkor's response:



1) True, you do gain more resistance per level, but it varies. Racials provides 74 shadow resistance instead of 70. But my glyphed healing stream totem provides 94 fire/frost/nature resistance (I don't know how much it provides at 70).

2) Yep, I'm seeing much less than 20% misses against my 74. Casters miss more often than melee. It's hard to tell, because a lot of 70s don't even hit cap against 70s. I'm all for concrete testing -- if anyone has a 70 on Aerie Peak that would like to throw 1000 bolts or swing a hammer 1000 times for some truly accurate readings, let me know.

3) Other than hit rating, all offensive secondary stats depend on the player's level, not the opponent's level. That's why a level 10 can crit 90% of the time against a level 20...when the level 10 can hit a 20.

4) Added stealth detection does help, but I've seen (or rather, not seen) some 70 rogues who I still can't detect. Must be a talent or bonus of some sort.

5) Base damage and healing increases vary by class and spec. For resto shamans, it's remarkably consistent at about 26%. I think druids (for example) see much more variation between spells. My health only went up by maybe 300-400 from leveling, I believe.

6) The impact of two additional talent points and more spells/abilities also varies by class. Shamans get close to no benefit, while (for example) druids, paladins and DKs get some important spells/abilities to consider.
 
im about to quit wow for a good 3 months, but when i come back im proably going to level my pally to at least lvl 72. from what i know it isnt my arena character, and ive seen 72 pallys take down full resilance stacked fc's in 3 attacks, sounds fun
 
Sounds awesome. So would it be worth getting my prot pally up to 74 then? I know for some classes it's not worth it but what about prot pally? cause I loveeeee to trololololololol ;]
 
Cr1ms0nPl4gu3 said:
Sounds awesome. So would it be worth getting my prot pally up to 74 then? I know for some classes it's not worth it but what about prot pally? cause I loveeeee to trololololololol ;]
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Prot pali is probably the biggest gap between 70 -> 74. They are much stronger in my experience.
 
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