39 Mage - CC

[Tetrica]

I'm currently sitting here, pondering over how I should gear my Mage. This is how I'm thinking that my gear would look like. This is the CC-set only, any other sets will be compiled in the future. Also, I would rotate Tidal Charm with WSG-trinket for Spell Penetration.



Don't look at the spec on CharDev, I don't know what I was up to.

This build would be for pure CC, but if needed to pop in the additional burst, another build would be prefered. Is there anything else you'd like to see in a CC-build?



That burst would very much be desired in arenas. Do you think that this build will be suitable for 2v2/3v3? Also, should I get a spare staff(most probably SoJ) with Soulfrost?



____

Etiré

 

[Druiddroid]

look up Imbad in MyTwinks, i use him for flag running but it works for CCing as well.



i would suspect compared to my mage you might want a little more stamina and a little less int because i cast mana shield a lot, while i would imagine a CC mage would cast many more other spells. remember that spell power really isn't much of a desire for a CC mage; you're going to want to cast frost nova, poly, cone of cold, rank 1 frostbolt, counterspell, mana shield/fireward/frostward, and not spells that do damage. you should try to keep one target polymorphed at almost all times



i think because of that you should switch your belt to 9/9 of the eagle (or at least get both 9/9 and deathmage's sash) and switch the golden ring of power for deadman's hand. also, i would get the WSG staff instead of staff of jordan. also, get the 8/7/7 neck for an extra stat if you want. shoulders could be 9/9 of the eagle, i mean hit is important but with 15 hit to gloves i have little trouble having spells miss (or at least rarely notice it). if you really want to go full-on CC get 12/12 pants of the eagle. since you have +150 hp to chest, the enchant on your bracers is suspicious. personally i think you should get +12 stamina to bracers.



all of these gear suggestions are based on the fact that you don't want spell power, but rather pure CC.



if you want to have some spellpower too (which i think you do according to your template), i would instead suggest the underworld band/deadman's hand for rings, then add 8/7/7 neck and get 12 stam to bracer, then use the rest of your template and you've got a solid CC set with a decent amount of SP.



if you're going to go arcane and get the mana regen stat, i would get death's head vestment for the chest.



my spec would be This. POM is great for quick polymorphs or frostbolts. the arcane tree also holds lots of spell resist and survivability. 1 point in imp CS allows for a CS+poly against paladins/shamans/druids/mages/non-felhunter locks/priests. note that i left 6 points out because you can pretty much go in many different paths after that base. you could get 1 more in imp mana shield, get imp blink, or go more into frost and get imp FB or better CDs on frost spells. depends what you like.



frost is pretty good for more of a spelldamage oriented CC mage IMO. don't forget that you can get 2 points into imp fireblast if you choose to go that route.



one last thing you need to realize is that in 3.1 they may change enchants to the 39 bracket. so personally i wouldn't spend on the enchants until 3.1 rolls around and you know which enchants are best then.

 

[Tetrica]

Thanks for the reply.



I set the SM-neck due to not having seen the Calisea-neck around for ages. I know it's not supposed to be that rare, but I haven't seen one in the last, say, six weeks.



CoC and R1 Frostbolt are real mana-drainers - but I do get your point.



The 9 Hit-shoulders are being in the set for some... illogical reasoning, if you can go with that, seeing as I put points into Precision.



I totally missed out on the 12 Stamina-enchant, I don't see how the hell I overlooked that.



I'm camping AH for the 9/9 Belt, but it has remained unseen as long as the Calisea-neck.



The Deadman's Hand... Gosh, looks like I overlooked a lot of stuff, especially as I helped a friend get it last week. I cannot but concur on this one.



I've got a banked pair of 12/11-pants, but that's nothing but a downgrade.



I've got an UWB in the bank and I am camping AH for this one too.



Also, about the spec, I chose the Frost-tree simply because it's the one I'm most familiar with. I understand that PoM is amazing, but it's a T5-talent, and I think I lose too much from Frost; e.g. IV and Arctic Reach, as well as Winter's Chill. Although I will definately try the Arcane-specc out once I get my gear sorted.



Thanks for the help, very much appreciated.

____

Etiré

 

[Druiddroid]

Also, about the spec, I chose the Frost-tree simply because it's the one I'm most familiar with. I understand that PoM is amazing, but it's a T5-talent, and I think I lose too much from Frost; e.g. IV and Arctic Reach, as well as Winter's Chill. Although I will definately try the Arcane-specc out once I get my gear sorted.

IV < POM in my opinion.



the arcane tree has a talent that makes your CS and poly spells have a longer cast range. so arctic reach is countered there, at least somewhat. cone of cold and frost nova are kind of close-combat spells anyways, and usually that extra range won't make a huge deal. a 36 yd range imp CS can be really nice against a target that uses 30 yard range instant cast dots. /shrug.

 

[Tetrica]

the arcane tree has a talent that makes your CS and poly spells have a longer cast range. so arctic reach is countered there, at least somewhat. cone of cold and frost nova are kind of close-combat spells anyways, and usually that extra range won't make a huge deal. a 36 yd range imp CS can be really nice against a target that uses 30 yard range instant cast dots. /shrug.

IV is a free removal of the movement-imparing effects you have (if you intend to Glyph it.)



Talking about Glyphs; I don't know if I like Glyph of Polymorph, since you can't use it as a CS on someone, e.g. if a Paladin casts HL and I Poly + FB him.

I consider Glyph of Evocation to be given, but the second one... If I go Arcane it'll probably be Poly, even though I think dislike it, and if I go Frost I'm highly unsure.

 

[Druiddroid]

IV is a free removal of the movement-imparing effects you have (if you intend to Glyph it.)



Talking about Glyphs; I don't know if I like Glyph of Polymorph, since you can't use it as a CS on someone, e.g. if a Paladin casts HL and I Poly + FB him.

I consider Glyph of Evocation to be given, but the second one... If I go Arcane it'll probably be Poly, even though I think dislike it, and if I go Frost I'm highly unsure.

i had IV before with the glyph of IV when i flag carried, and i thought it wasn't much help. CS is much better for getting people off of you.



as for glyphs, i use evocation and blink. i would imagine glyph of blink isn't great for arenas, but i would definately stick with evocation. it's like a free bandage if you play your hp/mana properly.



glyph of poly seems good if your partner isn't well coordinated with you. if it is, chances are the targets you're polying won't have dots on it or is casting a healing spell that you want to effectively cancel.



i'd go with glyph of frost nova or something. honestly i'm not sure which would be best for an arena CC mage.

 

[Tetrica]

Glyph of Poly would be awesome for kill-switches and stuff, but I think that coordination and communication can overcome that.



Blink? Is the 5yd-increase that much? I guess it'd be noticeable, but not much more than that?



IV glyphed is like an EA, being Human and having an extra "OHSHIT"-key, I thought that'd help.



All in all, I guess that it's Evo + IV/Blink in both Arena and BGs. The Nova-glyph just doesn't seem worth the trouble.

 

[Druiddroid]

IV glyphed is like an EA, being Human and having an extra "OHSHIT"-key, I thought that'd help.

well compared to an instant polymorph it's not as good IMO.



perhaps for arenas it would be better. i'm just talking from the stance of a WSG flag carrier. i never used frostbolt much because i have so many other CCs to choose from, particularly instant casts and poly.

 

[Bansil]

miners hat of the deep

and keep your hit...missing a CC is not what a CC mage is looking for.

 

[Tetrica]

i never used frostbolt much because i have so many other CCs to choose from, particularly instant casts and poly.

What instant CCs? CoC and Nova both have a minor cooldown, and I have a hard time to see how you can lock enough people down with Nova, CoC, Poly and the instant-cast you get every 3 minutes from PoM(or is it 2m24sec? Anyway -.-), I can't really see what I should do without Frostbolt there to slow people down. And I don't intend on going Fire, for Blast Wave, I know I get Blazing Speed and all, but I lose Permafrost, Hit, Cold Snap, IV(which I will continue to argue that it's good until I realise that it fails myself, the stubborn g1t I am) and

With CoC, Nova and Poly vs. a team with a dispeller(which will happen, we all know it) you have little to no up-time on any of the slowing effects / Poly. What do you do when you don't have Nova/CoC up? Keeping up the Polymorph? Sure enough, it's valueable, but that Polymorph has a statured limitation when you're able of doing so much more.



About MHotD, I will try and get that, but this is the gear that I have and/or can get my hands on easily and quickly.

 

[Druiddroid]

What instant CCs? CoC and Nova both have a minor cooldown, and I have a hard time to see how you can lock enough people down with Nova, CoC, Poly and the instant-cast you get every 3 minutes from PoM(or is it 2m24sec? Anyway -.-), I can't really see what I should do without Frostbolt there to slow people down. And I don't intend on going Fire, for Blast Wave, I know I get Blazing Speed and all, but I lose Permafrost, Hit, Cold Snap, IV(which I will continue to argue that it's good until I realise that it fails myself, the stubborn g1t I am) and

With CoC, Nova and Poly vs. a team with a dispeller(which will happen, we all know it) you have little to no up-time on any of the slowing effects / Poly. What do you do when you don't have Nova/CoC up? Keeping up the Polymorph? Sure enough, it's valueable, but that Polymorph has a statured limitation when you're able of doing so much more.

well, i'm a flag carrier. i rely on speed. maybe that's why in my experience i don't use it much.



in the down time of CoC/FN/blink i'm typically casting mana shield. it's not difficult for me to CC a group of people with a single FN, and then get the stragglers with a CoC, then blink away and then have people come up to me once the next CoC is up. then mana shield in down times and i'm typically fine. against stuff that isn't necessarily CCable that way, i can just poly them. i can poly + blink, then anyone else that starts attacking at a range can be polyed too, and this is 25 yards+ further away from the first poly. so in the end i gain a lot of distance on my opponents, even without frostbolt.



perhaps in arena, however, where there are closed boundaries, you might not have the luxury of having the ability to roam in many directions. you'll also be facing relatively smarter opponents in arena, so you may need frostbolt more than me. honestly i wouldn't know. i would think mana shield would be more of an 'O SHIT' button in arena rather than what i use it for. you'd probably want to use your mana on CCs to get maximum crowdcontrolage.

 

[Tetrica]

well, i'm a flag carrier. i rely on speed. maybe that's why in my experience i don't use it much.



so in the end i gain a lot of distance on my opponents, even without frostbolt.



perhaps in arena, however, where there are closed boundaries, you might not have the luxury of having the ability to roam in many directions. you'll also be facing relatively smarter opponents in arena, so you may need frostbolt more than me. honestly i wouldn't know.

For pure CC however, I would not be there so save myself but to keep people away from teammates, lock them down. If they're coming on me, I rely on someone on my team to get them off me so I can continue to CC.



You gain a lot of distance, yes, but CCing isn't about distance. It's about keeping a lot of enemies under control yet keeping it as calm, relaxed and simple as possible.



This discussion wasn't all about arena. It's about being a CC-bot overall. It's true that I will need Frostbolt in arena, because time doing nothing is time gained by my opponents to get a kill on my allies.

About the "smarter people in arena"-argument, it does not have to be true. Premades, or a very good dispeller and a good rogue, can make life hell for a CCer. That's only two out of ten opponents. Yet they can ruin it much more than the eight, or possibly 13, rather uncoordinated people.



We seem to have had a discussion from two different point of views, me having the view of a CCer and you having the point of view of an FCer, at least parts of the discussion.

However, it has been very helpful! Thanks for the advice!



____

Etiré