2v2 Tournament (previsionary thread )

[AlbinoCow]

This thread will serve to get an idea of the number of ppl interested in participating in a 2v2 tourney in the near future and to discuss the rules / possibilities of it. Base line rules which could be changed include:

- 1 healer max per team
- 1 BM monk per team
- 1 Feral per team

Everyone will be signing up as a team, so if u don't have a partner u can search for one. The main realm this will occur on is Aerie Peak, however if both players are from another server group accommodations can be made.

Please like this post or post in this thread that u would be interested as well as any critic or ideas u may have.

 

[Kincaide]

I have relatively little experience in arenas at this level but if someone wants to partner with me and give it a go, I'm up for it. I have arms warrior, BM monk, rogue, and resto druid that are BIS enough to play. That's the order of my preference as well, all Alliance. Anyone want to partner up?

 

[LennywBT]

Ferals will ruin it. Thats what i think.
I can come with my FrostMage or my DestroWarlock. Need a partner for it tho. And if you still want ferals included. Ill be with my nelf feral, will have to wait till WoD tho. And aswell, i am still learning. Havent really done arenas be4 WoD. So i have little experience. Already have the focus macros etc.
Good combo is Priest/mage , Priest/Rogue , DLock/Rpall.
[MENTION=18878]AlbinoCow[/MENTION], you should add this aswell: Number of Stealthies in game must be 1. Since you don't want to run into a Feral/Rogue.

 

[Kincaide]

Is anyone going to be supremely offended if you just said no ferals in the tournament? It's not like anyone doesn't know full well that they're broken right now.

 

[LennywBT]

Is anyone going to be supremely offended if you just said no ferals in the tournament? It's not like anyone doesn't know full well that they're broken right now.

Yeah, that is what i was thinking, if you run into a rogue/feral, rogue might keep healer sapped meanwhile feral kills the other target, and if the feral isn't quick enough, rogue opens after he throws his third sap, and druid can Stealth into prowl into rake, then switch back on the primary target with a fero bite. Its super duper deadly.

 

[AlbinoCow]

Im not so sure about banning feral or any particular class or number of stealthies. Most comps with enough experience and skill can survive and outplay feral or feral rog. The first tourney in mind will be more friendly, so if u really feel u need to roll something u would consider too op, then u will be free to do it. As far as i have played, ferals can be op but they are also predictable and countered once they are out of their comfort zone.

 

[Bop]

This thread will serve to get an idea of the number of ppl interested in participating in a 2v2 tourney in the near future and to discuss the rules / possibilities of it. Base line rules which could be changed include:

- 1 healer max per team
- 1 BM monk per team
- 1 Feral per team

Please like this post or post in this thread that u would be interested as well as any critic or ideas u may have.

Ew arenas? I'm much more of a PvE player myself.

On a more serious note, I think the best way to restrict a 2v2 tournament is to be fairly minimal with the regulation, as you are with those rules listed.

I think the reason for this is because 2v2 tends to be more naturally balanced because it is a slower pace. You're not guaranteed to blow somebody up within 5-10 seconds of connecting with a partner. It is a grind - a process during which better players tend to consistently come out on top.

THE RESTRICTION ARGUMENT​

With the addition of Dampening, I think one of my original restrictions that I realized was a necessity after the 2v2 tournament I hosted over a year ago is no longer needed. This restriction was the enforcement of only one Healing Specialization per team. Part of what makes games problematic and monotonous for every party involved is a re-occurrence of the same two classes. So while Hpally/Disc might be an interesting and complex comp that offers protection and a "counter" against some of the nastier "FotM" teams (Feral/Rogue, Ret/Feral, Feral/BM), Disc/Disc would present very little counter-play and be an otherwise boring comp to face. But I don't think the restriction should be "No Two of a Class" despite that being a very logical restriction to make, and hear me out on this. Boomkin/Rdruid is very monotonous and not fun to play against, but comps like Rogue x2 or Hunter x2, for example, are infinitely more complex and capable of being entertaining. The distinction seems to be based around Two of a Class That Is Capable of Healing, which I personally think should be the only restriction. So whereas Warrior x2 has the potential to be a very successful and aggressive early comp (as necessitated by their complete lack of healing) while still maintaining a giant weakness (see prior parenthetical phrase), Feral/Feral does not have that same weakness while still possessing a similar if not superior amount of pressure.

THE DOUBLE DPS ARGUMENT​

The final piece of advice I'd like to share is about banning specific double-dps comps that are very Flavor of the Month, such as BM/Feral. By choosing a double DPS 2's comp rather than a more standard Healer/DPS team, you are basically making the assertion that you are going to be able to end the game before your comp's lack of sustain catches up with you. There is an obvious give and take with that trade-off, with healer/DPS comps being able to respond accordingly (namely, and generally, trying to delay games out as long as possible by avoiding burst and CCing effectively). For this reason, I am almost always in favor of allowing these comps to be able to play, but it's important to make an exception if a comp is simply too powerful and offers no counterplay. I'm not particularly convinced that BM monks, prior to their access to Guard, are enough of a problem to warrant a complete banning of their pairing with Ferals. I think most properly skilled + geared Healer/DPS teams can outlast and out-position Feral/BM. And I know for a fact that the vast majority of Healer/Healer comps would be able to win that match-up, which brings me back to my original point about allowing Healer/Healer - it is an excellent counter to double DPS.

NOT THE WHOLE STORY BUT HELPFUL TO THINK ABOUT​

And finally a cool little Rock-Paper-Scissors comparison: 1. Double DPS is strong against Healer/DPS because it is easier for two DPS to overwhelm a single healer than it is for one DPS to kill a single target. 2. Healer/DPS is strong against Double Healer because dampening causes the main strength of the two Healer team to be diminished over time. 3. Double Healer is strong against Double DPS because two healers have more potential to sustain than two DPS have potential to kill.

And that's a wrap on this segment of Advice From Bop! Please feel free to ask me any questions about what I've just said - I hope to be as clear as possible and helpful towards people who are trying to understand more about 2v2 arenas, which I consider to be the most balanced - as long as your questions are not about anti-dampening Ret/DPS comps. Please don't ask me questions about that.

 

[Lanky]

Yet another tournament in the f2p bracket, very interested and would like to participate with a friend if times can also suit peeps from EU, wishing for 6/7 pm EST or lower.
Also, hoping that this happens after the boa tab as been introduced.

 

[Wizkidone]

So you don't specify here, would we be signing up only one character? Or are we signing up ourselves and have the freedom to swap toons when we choose? Sort of like official blizzard tourney rules? The who tourney thing sounds like a good idea though!

 

[Swerrve]

Interested

 

[chrij23]

ill be playing in thesse gonna setup a comp then posting it here, ferals can crit 2.5k and more i think feral druid should be banned.

 

[Swerrve]

.o.

 

[LennywBT]

ill be playing in thesse gonna setup a comp then posting it here, ferals can crit 2.5k and more i think feral druid should be banned.

3k.

 

[AlbinoCow]

So you don't specify here, would we be signing up only one character? Or are we signing up ourselves and have the freedom to swap toons when we choose? Sort of like official blizzard tourney rules? The who tourney thing sounds like a good idea though!

Thats what this thread is for, discussing and arranging it. I have never ran an arena tourney before but these games will be more friendly, the prize will be small if any all for the first tourney. I was thinking of choosing a character, u can change specs per matchup but not if changes ur role. Upon vsing the next team u will be able to switch roles on ur char.

 

[Flynn]

Definitely interested, hope this happens! How would the matches be set up though? Would it be a best of 3? Of 5? Also would they be scheduled by picking random teams to fight against one another at a certain time/day or are all teams meant to gather together at the same place at once and we just take it from there?

 

[Lanky]

I don't think any class at F2P should be banned since no class is unbeatable. Ferals really won't be the problem since they can be countered, however if you do sign up, expect feral teams and find a way to work around it. This ofcourse means finding a partner and class thats good enough.

People have a problem with ferals due to the 2.5+ ferocious bites but this really is the only aspect of the class thats scary to face. Ferals are relatively squishy so if you survive the ferocious bite, theres not much to worry about. There are also BMs which only really put out consistant damage which can be healed through.CC them and you don't get keg smashed.

Only class combinations that should be banned in my opinion could be double feral, double bm and double healers. I expect Rsham/arms to be the best comp, with arms/disc or arms/holy coming second. Really encourage people to like the OP to show their interest so Albino could hold this event.

 

[Wizkidone]

I don't think any class at F2P should be banned since no class is unbeatable. Ferals really won't be the problem since they can be countered, however if you do sign up, expect feral teams and find a way to work around it.
People have a problem with ferals due to the 2.5+ ferocious bites but this really is the only aspect of the class thats scary to face.

Not that I'm a proponent of classes being banned, but that aspect is broken. I know you queue skirms a lot, and you're accustomed to fighting random ferals that do whatever and hit hard. Remember though, in the hands of someone that knows what they're doing, it goes from being kinda op to terribly imbalanced

 

[Bop]

Not that I'm a proponent of classes being banned, but that aspect is broken. I know you queue skirms a lot, and you're accustomed to fighting random ferals that do whatever and hit hard. Remember though, in the hands of someone that knows what they're doing, it goes from being kinda op to terribly imbalanced

I agree with you to the extent that a good Feral is an easy contender for winning any 2v2 (or 3v3 for that matter) tournament.

However, I do also agree with Lanky in that Ferals have counterplay against them. In my extremely long and skip-able essay that I wrote on the first page, I laid out a defense of Ferals - and double healer comps for that matter.

Summarizing the major point of that 2v2 Doctoral Thesis Paper, I think that only Double of a Class that can Heal should be banned (I.E., 2x Druids, 2x Paladins, 2x Priests, 2x Shamans, 2x Monks). That leaves open the potential for interesting "quick" comps like 2x Rogues or 2x Warriors, as well as strategically picking a Double Healer team.

 

[YungDaddy]

Ban bite from druids problem solved

 

[Lanky]

I understand where youre coming from and agree completely that in the hards of a player who knows what theyre doing , its extremely hard to deal with. But a thing that comes to mind is, is it really worth or fair to ban a class when a much stronger class exists and can probably kill feral teams with ease. I am ofcourse talking about arms with healers, especially rshams.

I personally think that this will be the winning comp and people already know why. Warriors by itself isnt very strong but with a healer, it can be considered a bigger inbalance than ferals. I understand that ferals may pose problems for most comps, particurlaly wizard comps but I just don't think its the right call to make since its the first of these tournaments and it might be better to let all classes compete.

Not that I'm a proponent of classes being banned, but that aspect is broken. I know you queue skirms a lot, and you're accustomed to fighting random ferals that do whatever and hit hard. Remember though, in the hands of someone that knows what they're doing, it goes from being kinda op to terribly imbalanced