Hunter PvE
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Zitalin
Legend
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
(not gonna reply to zitalin because I'm pretty sure he's blocking me on these forums)
But to address his post; the hunter he linked is not very well geared for pve because it has way too low ilvl. Gearing in pve is really simple actually. You get the ilvl400 trinket from mop rare, then you get the ilvl200 trinket from engineering, and then you pretty much fill in the rest of the slots with the highest ilvl sunwell stuff with relevant stats you can find.
I haven't done enough research on this to state it as a fact, but I think the golden bow is better than legendary bow for mm hunters despite the drop in ilvl, just because slower weapon speed benefits aimed shot so much.
But to address his post; the hunter he linked is not very well geared for pve because it has way too low ilvl. Gearing in pve is really simple actually. You get the ilvl400 trinket from mop rare, then you get the ilvl200 trinket from engineering, and then you pretty much fill in the rest of the slots with the highest ilvl sunwell stuff with relevant stats you can find.
I haven't done enough research on this to state it as a fact, but I think the golden bow is better than legendary bow for mm hunters despite the drop in ilvl, just because slower weapon speed benefits aimed shot so much.
Gucciyo
Grandfathered
also remember to gem item level in BLUE sockets and enchant item level to your wrist, waist and feet
Kageroo
Legend
Normalization - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft and its universe - Wikia
Aimed shot is normalized, so it does not benefit from weapon speed, if I understand it correctly
Fx
Unnecessarily Rude
That's an extremely outdated page.
Kageroo
Legend
When the damage is applied 2 internal spell effects are triggered. The first effect normalizes weapon damage (based on dps and compared to a set AS which iirc is 2.8 or 2.9 for ranged weapons). Then the % damage increase is applied.
Aimed Shot - Spell - World of Warcraft
What this ultimately means is that for any ability that uses "weapon damage" the speed of the weapon does not matter, because of the normalization that occurs.
Aimed Shot - Spell - World of Warcraft
Effect #1 Normalized Weapon Damage
Effect #2 Weapon Damage - %
Value: 500
Source:https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/2nxu0o/hunter_weapon_speed/
So no, we are not talking about vanilla hunters.
Gucciyo
Grandfathered
This subject seems important to you, im sorry that i wronged you my friend
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
I did a small experiment on normalization using the rogue ability Backstab as an example. Backstab does 252% weapon damage, which is significant enough to notice a difference when using different weapons.
I unequipped all gear that had a chance to proc so it wouldn't mess with the numbers, and also unequipped all gear with crit just to save time (as I only wanted to use hits as samples)
The two weapons I used for the comparison was:
Jaded Crystal Dagger
Merciless Gladiator's Spellblade
I used caster daggers so their stats wouldn't interfere with backstab damage.
Now if the wowwiki page you linked is correct, then all daggers should be normalized to 1.7 speed, and their original speed should not matter. If that's true then the Merciless Gladiator's Spellblade should get the highest backstab hits since its dps is higher (regardless of it having lower damage per swing).
Here are the results using a sample size of 80 hits per dagger:
Jaded Crystal Dagger
Merciless Gladiator's Spellblade
From this experiment we can conclude that the page you linked is incorrect and weapon swing damage/speed is still significant.
Manaki
Legend
i did a small experiment on normalization using the rogue ability backstab as an example. Backstab does 252% weapon damage, which is significant enough to notice a difference when using different weapons.
I unequipped all gear that had a chance to proc so it wouldn't mess with the numbers, and also unequipped all gear with crit just to save time (as i only wanted to use hits as samples)
the two weapons i used for the comparison was:
Jaded crystal dagger
merciless gladiator's spellblade
i used caster daggers so their stats wouldn't interfere with backstab damage.
Now if the wowwiki page you linked is correct, then all daggers should be normalized to 1.7 speed, and their original speed should not matter. If that's true then the merciless gladiator's spellblade should get the highest backstab hits since its dps is higher (regardless of it having lower damage per swing).
Here are the results using a sample size of 80 hits per dagger:
Jaded crystal dagger
merciless gladiator's spellblade
from this experiment we can conclude that the page you linked is incorrect and weapon swing damage/speed is still significant.
nerd alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
I was looking at the numbers as I was doing the backstabs, and it only took about 40 hits for the numbers to stabilize completely, so I think you can trust the numbers after 80 hits pretty well.
Backstab scales with swing damage. Swing damage IS affected by AP, but both weapons have the exact same AP (none) which means that the only thing affecting backstabs damage is the weapons themselves. Now note that the 1.6 dagger has a slightly higher dps than the 1.8 dagger, and then note that I used a pretty big sample size of 80 hits and still got higher average damage on the 1.8 weapon. Now conclude.
edit: I just did the same experiment with the sample size of 200 hits and got the same result. As in exact same average hits.
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Quakee
Grandfathered
Stale
Legend
If you had all data you could throw it in SPSS and look wether or not the average damage difference is significant, with just seeing the numbers of 302 vs 310 and 607 vs 614 I doubt that this is the case, even with 200 hits.
There's ofcourse also the issue that Backstab is just a single ability, you'd really want to compare like five abilities with ~200 hits. Also have to consider that swing damage isn't directly related to attack speed (though obviously in most cases it is, because Blizzard standardized everything).
I mean according to the Tooltip it would make more sense if the weapon damage actually mattered, but we all know Blizzard, they don't like things to make sense.
There's ofcourse also the issue that Backstab is just a single ability, you'd really want to compare like five abilities with ~200 hits. Also have to consider that swing damage isn't directly related to attack speed (though obviously in most cases it is, because Blizzard standardized everything).
I mean according to the Tooltip it would make more sense if the weapon damage actually mattered, but we all know Blizzard, they don't like things to make sense.
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