Spiriel
Legend
Disrupting Healing-Chains. FMage/WL are Healers best friend! Screw DPS
Sheeping enemy Healers who can dispel nonstop gives the edge.
Better your understanding of competitve balanced premade v premade
- Thread starter AlbinoCow
- Start date
Disrupting Healing-Chains. FMage/WL are Healers best friend! Screw DPS
Sheeping enemy Healers who can dispel nonstop gives the edge.
Gottha
Grandfathered
There was only one wargame I was too protective for our FC. I replyed about this myself calling our bear "my preciuos". In fact this isn't so bad if we managed to protect him after all not just me trying. I cant find more agg for my horde hunter. I have all the items I can find for horde's side except ROP; you know how hard it is to find. You are not right saying we dont have worry about the healing. Range classes can care a bit for the damage they take. I prepared 50 bandages before the wargames. So far needed them 3 times so the healer is a human too cant manage to heal everything.Since you posted here I'm guessing that you want some kind of feedback on your gameplay in premade situations. I hope you don't take this as a personal criticism or think that i'm attacking you but hunter is a little more complicated that you think.
For example, i've noticed that in the last few 10v10s that you stay near your FC a lot to use your Narrow Escape to peel off any enemies. In a way this is good, however you as a hunter have a much more important role.
If we group classes to what kind role they must fulfill in premade situations, we'll come up with Healers, the obvious, then FC, then mid control classes, like boomkin, brewmaster monk and arms warrior. You as a hunter fall into the 4th group of class, similar to rogues, wind walker monks and rets. By this I mean you are a kind of support class, not just for FC but for team mates and also great at killing EFC.
While the mid control classes do their job of trying to spread AoE and gain mid, you need to be working with the rogues in your team. An example of this would be 2 weeks ago, when your rogue has EFC sapped at ramp and none of his team mates came to help. When the rogue calls out that he sapped EFC, you need to be breaking off from your team and trying to get a kill on EFC with your rogue.
A huge amount of the damage also comes from a hunter, so you should try to get more Agility pieces rather than worrying about stamina. With 3 healers, you're unlikely to die as a ranged DPS, so it would be better to go into an agility set and improve your damage.
My last point would be using your pet's Roar Of Sacrifice. This is one of the best and most important hunter spells but it's rare to see hunter's use it because most of them don't know about it. I suggest you change your pet's talent to cunning and make a Roar Of Sacrifice macro.
#showtooltip Roar of Sacrifice
/cast [@mouseover,help][@player] Roar of Sacrifice
This macro will allow you to mouseover a friendly target and use this ability so that they don't get critically struck. This is so important to do when you see an offensive push from the other team onto your FC.
Sorry for the long text, hope you find it useful.
Gottha
Grandfathered
Basically in arenas the slow helps against WW monk. Maybe if we had 2 frost mages and 2 warlocks could handle 2 WW.
Spiriel
Legend
Hunters are the first Toons Healers let die. Least utility atm but fast back in action, nothing personal.
Healtargets: Other Healer = FC > CC-Class > Support > DPS
Ofc this is situational
Achmed
OG
Tbh the main problem in that game was that dps was way too spread and we actually stopped coordination on skype being lost in that insane pressure.
Main thing is we've had two classes with shit mobility and easy to counter (me and Alpha), they've changed the rogue from the first game with a monk and that fists rotation their two monks had alonside with the mobility of all their team kinda fucked us.
As it is seen on the movie, everytime we managed to setup a kill on someone, they just ran away behind their heals to comeback after and wreck havoc.
That game was not a problem of "skill" many of you imply. Was a problem of comp + low communication on Skype from horde side. Also "s" key had nothing to do with the final output of the game.
Last thing was the poor use of belf silence, a thing that i'm culpable also, a thing that can turn tables when use it to the max.
ps: this in no qq, i just state what i've seen.
Main thing is we've had two classes with shit mobility and easy to counter (me and Alpha), they've changed the rogue from the first game with a monk and that fists rotation their two monks had alonside with the mobility of all their team kinda fucked us.
As it is seen on the movie, everytime we managed to setup a kill on someone, they just ran away behind their heals to comeback after and wreck havoc.
That game was not a problem of "skill" many of you imply. Was a problem of comp + low communication on Skype from horde side. Also "s" key had nothing to do with the final output of the game.
Last thing was the poor use of belf silence, a thing that i'm culpable also, a thing that can turn tables when use it to the max.
ps: this in no qq, i just state what i've seen.
PLEYA
Legend
By the way, if anyone wants a really good guide about proper keybinds; read THIS.
You won't need stuff like ESDF instead of WASD since we're F2Ps though lol.
Also, make sure that your keyboard inputs are registered on button-down instead of button-up.
You can change this in Interface>Combat>ButtonDownSomething or in the Bartender options if you use Bartender.
You won't need stuff like ESDF instead of WASD since we're F2Ps though lol.
Also, make sure that your keyboard inputs are registered on button-down instead of button-up.
You can change this in Interface>Combat>ButtonDownSomething or in the Bartender options if you use Bartender.
Gottha
Grandfathered
Dreamcraft
Grandfathered
Except for some off topic posts, I like the thread.
LennywBT
SpeeDIO
That's the point of the thread, you need your communication. Facts also tell the same, if you see the second game we did last week, Dreamcraft was improving way too much with Vanillamilks guide, if only your the Horde was able to communicate with her, EFC would have been dead the moment she sapped him.
What should happen, is we need more communication. That is the first step, then we do not need people saying, "I'm good enough, i don't have the need for communication". Nope, as Albino stated, "even the most experienced players have something new to learn".
Also, i have to share this thing. Me and Bop were chatting about 10v10s. This is pretty much it in low level battleground. Bop said : "30% comp, 30% strategy, 40% individual player strength. If a team lacks only one of them, they will not play the game as needed, and in it's full potential. So, with this said, it is not all about strategy, it is not all about comp, it is not all about individual player strength, they are all factors in showing the result of a game.
Now if we look at the factors one by one, here it is :
Comp -- This is a deciding factor in mid, but if players are not coordinated, and do dmg in different targets there will surely be a downfall.Also, playing mid with the lack of strategy you surely are going to lose, but its not 100% since it is all depending on the other team Comp/Strat/IPS.
Strategy --- If a team has a good strategy i see it will be doing really fine, but if you have the strategy and lack in the other 2, ....
Individual Player Strength (IPS) --- It is a really deciding factor, it will decide on how fast you kill the efc, on how you will protect your FC, it will decide on keeping the mid up, but with the lack of strategy (bad coordination, extremely bad positioning etc), you surely are going to be pushed back into your GY. (for people that do not know, NEVER EVER push too much into their GY, it will be your death, since the enemies that ress on the GY have a really open view on you, and finding a good position will definetly be hard.)
LennywBT
SpeeDIO
Plus, try to not complain much about your class and what not, if you want to beat some other player in terms of 1v1, you are going to lose/win, depending on your advantages and even your play.
1v1 has nothing to do in 10v10, try to play your class in the very best way you think your team would benefit the most.
1v1 has nothing to do in 10v10, try to play your class in the very best way you think your team would benefit the most.
OP
OP
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
I guess im going to list some improvements that would make for more interesting, competitive games for the eu signup wargames.
Target caller - Every week we have had the same few ppl TC and while they try, they have so much more to do. You see the less experienced ur team is (in this case atleast 6-8 players each week have never played in a 10v10 premade, and even more have really not had sufficient experience), the better and more precise ur TCing must be. TCing is not as simple as calling names of targets close to ur front line or switching to low targets, there are an insane amount of layers to it.
You need to of course call the best target and swap quickly enough to keep enemy healers on their toes, u need to know every enemy player who has bubble up and the time left and if u break the bubble, time left on weakened soul. Every small mistake like not landing a kill while ur team blows their cds and ccs because a priest got a re-bubble on ur target cause u called it too soon, will be taken advantage of. U must try to trick and out-smart the enemy TC and enemy healers, trying to get them to overheal on unnecessary targets.
You must lead the offense, calling when a certain class should use a cd and when to cc to make the plan of attack u surmised in a matter of seconds come into fruition and u must do it with pristine accuracy otherwise u will begin to fall behind.
Comp does have a factor on the pressure a team can put out, but more importantly a well-organized team with a very strong TC can easily overcome that.
Hunter - The hunters who que need to have better field awareness, most of our dps do, but as a hunter with the combination of track humans and ur high mobility u are essential for tracking efc's path if there is no defense set up for ur team, slowing efc, and seeing flank attacks more clearly than anybody else.
Better pet control, Since buffs are non-existant at this lv besides hunter pets, its very important u keep ur pet alive. If u are going to send him in make sure u know when to res him, and better use of roar of sac, much better. Save it for when the enemy is pushing onto ur fc late in the game, or use it early on wars / melee pushed in or if a healer gets caught out of position, but please use it on other ppl.
Conc shot more on melee like wars and make sure u keep rogues incombat by using focus or mouseover macros to auto shot him or conc him.
Mages + Locks - Overall many of our mages and locks are playing well, they just need to be more vocal. Call out every important cc, as to not overlap or break it, call out every counterspell u land. Call out novas, whether they be defensive or offensive.
FCs - As the FC u must keep an eye on every enemy player constantly, from the second the gates open till the game ends. It is ur job to count players in mid, foresee possible defenses and strategies the enemy could be employing. You must know where every stealthie is located or around if they are already stealthed. Your team must know what u plan on doing, u are the "king" of this game, the most important peice, your tream should be playing around u.
You are the strategy caller, when u want something done u make sure ur team knows and knows fast. If u want the hunter to pull back and play more defensivly because u see the the rogue and boomkin are stealthed u make it very clear. In mid fights dps and healers can be very caught up with pressing buttons, so u have to give them fair warning ahead of time to react. r
If u see defense call for help, u must call exactly how many ppl u want to come and who, otherwise itll be a clusterfuck and either everyone will come or nobody. Once u grab flag and commit to certain path make sure ur team understands what u plan on doing and is there to assist u
Healers - Positioning is off for a few players, u can essentially tell how experienced each healer is just by looking how they move with their team and where they normally stand. U want to be 35 yards from ur frontline, about 10-15 yards from ur ranged cloth dps and if possible on an angle where the terrain is protecting u from flanking or even from los. If ur team starts to get pushed back or jumps back into ur space for no reason, tell the dps they need to move up to hold position, a lot of the time they dont even realize. Idealy i want healers communicating when they top a dps so that the other healers dont waste their casts overhealing. This holds especially tru with mistweavers.
If ur FC is still attempting to cross and needs assistance, u must make every effort to get there in time
And this is only a part of some of the roles of a 10v10 wsg premade which have not been utilized as best they could be or even at all
Target caller - Every week we have had the same few ppl TC and while they try, they have so much more to do. You see the less experienced ur team is (in this case atleast 6-8 players each week have never played in a 10v10 premade, and even more have really not had sufficient experience), the better and more precise ur TCing must be. TCing is not as simple as calling names of targets close to ur front line or switching to low targets, there are an insane amount of layers to it.
You need to of course call the best target and swap quickly enough to keep enemy healers on their toes, u need to know every enemy player who has bubble up and the time left and if u break the bubble, time left on weakened soul. Every small mistake like not landing a kill while ur team blows their cds and ccs because a priest got a re-bubble on ur target cause u called it too soon, will be taken advantage of. U must try to trick and out-smart the enemy TC and enemy healers, trying to get them to overheal on unnecessary targets.
You must lead the offense, calling when a certain class should use a cd and when to cc to make the plan of attack u surmised in a matter of seconds come into fruition and u must do it with pristine accuracy otherwise u will begin to fall behind.
Comp does have a factor on the pressure a team can put out, but more importantly a well-organized team with a very strong TC can easily overcome that.
Hunter - The hunters who que need to have better field awareness, most of our dps do, but as a hunter with the combination of track humans and ur high mobility u are essential for tracking efc's path if there is no defense set up for ur team, slowing efc, and seeing flank attacks more clearly than anybody else.
Better pet control, Since buffs are non-existant at this lv besides hunter pets, its very important u keep ur pet alive. If u are going to send him in make sure u know when to res him, and better use of roar of sac, much better. Save it for when the enemy is pushing onto ur fc late in the game, or use it early on wars / melee pushed in or if a healer gets caught out of position, but please use it on other ppl.
Conc shot more on melee like wars and make sure u keep rogues incombat by using focus or mouseover macros to auto shot him or conc him.
Mages + Locks - Overall many of our mages and locks are playing well, they just need to be more vocal. Call out every important cc, as to not overlap or break it, call out every counterspell u land. Call out novas, whether they be defensive or offensive.
FCs - As the FC u must keep an eye on every enemy player constantly, from the second the gates open till the game ends. It is ur job to count players in mid, foresee possible defenses and strategies the enemy could be employing. You must know where every stealthie is located or around if they are already stealthed. Your team must know what u plan on doing, u are the "king" of this game, the most important peice, your tream should be playing around u.
You are the strategy caller, when u want something done u make sure ur team knows and knows fast. If u want the hunter to pull back and play more defensivly because u see the the rogue and boomkin are stealthed u make it very clear. In mid fights dps and healers can be very caught up with pressing buttons, so u have to give them fair warning ahead of time to react. r
If u see defense call for help, u must call exactly how many ppl u want to come and who, otherwise itll be a clusterfuck and either everyone will come or nobody. Once u grab flag and commit to certain path make sure ur team understands what u plan on doing and is there to assist u
Healers - Positioning is off for a few players, u can essentially tell how experienced each healer is just by looking how they move with their team and where they normally stand. U want to be 35 yards from ur frontline, about 10-15 yards from ur ranged cloth dps and if possible on an angle where the terrain is protecting u from flanking or even from los. If ur team starts to get pushed back or jumps back into ur space for no reason, tell the dps they need to move up to hold position, a lot of the time they dont even realize. Idealy i want healers communicating when they top a dps so that the other healers dont waste their casts overhealing. This holds especially tru with mistweavers.
If ur FC is still attempting to cross and needs assistance, u must make every effort to get there in time
And this is only a part of some of the roles of a 10v10 wsg premade which have not been utilized as best they could be or even at all
Spiriel
Legend
Ofc for Disc/MW/Holydin but as RShaman u know better. You let a Shaman stay behind, you better take another MW or even better another Disc.
RShaman mid is also a great support for a charging Arms or Rogue behind the scene and he has GW for fast moving if pressured.
OP
OP
AlbinoCow
Vaco Del Blanco
It was for general positioning, If im playing with a rsham who has less personal experience in 10v10 wsg, i would rather have him in the back to make sure we have dispels when necessary, rather than put him in a more offensive position with shears and purges.
Bop
Remember the Treeline
There is a video of a game somewhere where wizkidone played mage as frost against Fearthebun's arcane.
Both players had a massive impact on the game for their team, but the Frost mage ended up having a higher impact.
My memory is beginning to fade for me here, but I can recall him basically sitting in the enemy team and disrupting healers. If he was swapped to, he would pop BSpeed/Blink or Block, so he was basically unkillable, especially if an allied healer knew what the frost mage was doing.
I'll tag [MENTION=12571]Swag[/MENTION] here and maybe he can explain it better than I can
Allybeboba
Legend
Is everyone using focus targets and target macros?
Three cheers for Albino for trying!
HIP HIP HOORAY!
Hip hip hooray!
Hip hip Hooray!
Three cheers for Albino for trying!
HIP HIP HOORAY!
Hip hip hooray!
Hip hip Hooray!
Achmed
OG
It seems to me you're on some kind of post hunting contest? Just saying.
Xenophon
Legend
Effective use of s key: start back-peddling just before they die so they think they've been killed by some noob huntard.
Wizkidone
Started from the bottom
There is a video of a game somewhere where wizkidone played mage as frost against Fearthebun's arcane.
Both players had a massive impact on the game for their team, but the Frost mage ended up having a higher impact.
My memory is beginning to fade for me here, but I can recall him basically sitting in the enemy team and disrupting healers. If he was swapped to, he would pop BSpeed/Blink or Block, so he was basically unkillable, especially if an allied healer knew what the frost mage was doing.
I'll tag [MENTION=12571]Swag[/MENTION] here and maybe he can explain it better than I can
Just saw this. Uh mage can make the other team fall over. You should focus a lot less on damage output and more on controlling the enemy healers. As frost you have a lot of survivability over arcane and you need to use it. Push in and cc the healers so the dps behind you can actually kill targets. Just a well timed cs on one, to poly on another, to blink torrent on another, then blazing speed back (you'll be really low at this point) and your team will have been able to kill several targets. At least in my experience
Flynn
#Synergy
Just to add in, make sure you let your healers know when you're going to push into the enemy team to go for cc so we can move forward with you please.Just saw this. Uh mage can make the other team fall over. You should focus a lot less on damage output and more on controlling the enemy healers. As frost you have a lot of survivability over arcane and you need to use it. Push in and cc the healers so the dps behind you can actually kill targets. Just a well timed cs on one, to poly on another, to blink torrent on another, then blazing speed back (you'll be really low at this point) and your team will have been able to kill several targets. At least in my experience
