Chubbybunny
Legend
Oh yeah cause you're able to draw that conclusion after what 2 or 3 games? In 1 bracket and in 1 night?
What actually killed each bracket?
- Thread starter Flaxy
- Start date
Oh yeah cause you're able to draw that conclusion after what 2 or 3 games? In 1 bracket and in 1 night?
Chubbybunny
Legend
They have not. I have seen. I have checked. No improvement from 6 months back, much less from 2 years back. I have been carefully monitoring my bracket for the past 2 hours, there has been only 1 bg in exp on in some shitty map. Trust me that's not how it's supposed to work. Made /who warsong, twin peaks, same desert. Years back it would have poped everywhere any bracket any time. GG for sending a tweet saying it's all fixed, no need to fix anything anymore. Like you have any fucking clue. That's why nothing get fixed. You're wetting your pants over 1 or 2 bgs. I mean I should quote one of these guys "Instant pops for the past hour". For the past hour! They wet their pants over one freaking hour. Hmm that's 2 bgs right?
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Healsatin
Legend
what are you talking about dude, the que bug is fixed. 4 days ago there were 0 pops, now there's 2 games going most of the night at 19. if you haven't seen an improvement then you clearly haven't been playing any brackets that will actually pop. if ques aren't popping for you it isn't because of the que system, it's because not enough people are in que. all brackets lvl 40-69 have been dead since at least cata, so i don't know how you can expect them to magically become revived for no reason.
since the fix 19s have been popping from about 7-2 every day vs 0 pops all night before the fix. the 20-29 bracket is also experiencing much shorter ques (about 5 minutes) vs the 20-30 minute ques of last week. maybe you should actually try to que in a bracket that will pop and you'll see that ques are in fact fixed or at the very least are vastly improved from what they were since the start of wod. xp off brackets have struggled since they were introduced, so not seeing a million twinks in bgs shouldn't be a surprise especially if you're on a random server. saying what bracket you're referring to would also be helpful to determine if the bug is fixed, or if you're just queing into a dead bracket.
you insist that ques are still bugged, but won't say how they're still bugged and ignore everyone else who says they've been getting consistent pops since the fix was implemented. regardless of if ques are perfect or not, they sure as hell are a lot better than they were before the fix so i don't get why you're complaining when ques are 100% better than they were. this game much like everything in existence will never be perfect, you might as well embrace this victory for the twinking community instead of complaining without providing any reasoning or evidence.
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Chubbybunny
Legend
Oh yeah, so your brilliant theory is that 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 70-79 exp-on are not brackets that will actually pop? You really know what you're talking about dude.
Brilliant!
Along with this cancer reply that I have heard time and time again for the past 4 years and probably more in the WoW forum as the biggest BS ever.
I have. The previous page of this very topic. I have done just that dozens and dozens of time from here to the wow forums. So when I read from Wähä on Eu wow forum "No one knew, that this would change drastically in WOD. " I almost died from laughters. We were many to know exactly what would happen when they changed the brackets maps along with random battleground. We even warned them.
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I'll explain again for the billionth time WHY, HOW and SINCE WHEN queues are broken to their f-ing bones.
You have got one amazing obsession with exp-off, fine. You do all your testing in exp-off which allows you to cowardly hide behind the magical excuse "there are not enough people" without even being sure what the hell you're talking about. I do all my tests in exp-on and more.
There is not just one problem. There are several that piled up along the years.
1. Alterac Valley. Number of maps. Bigger maps.
One good way to start is to see the differences between Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor. Don't start to tell me "that's because not as many people play wow". I almost died from laugher again when the numbers were back to 10M subs and the queue times were the worst it had ever been in the entire history of WoW. And I'm not kidding or trying to make it look bigger than it is.
In Cataclysm and before we would query all brackets to see how many people were in battlegrounds, and there was pretty much no problems, you could see people in Warsong, Arathi, Eye of the storm, etc from 10 to 84. (85 being max level). The bracket 10-19 was also running 24/7. I really mean it, at 4 hour in the freaking morning there were dudes in Warsong.
In Mists they reduced Alterac Valley requirement to level 45+ (from 60+ in Cata and before). We would do again queries say "/who warsong 1-89" same for arathi and other maps when relevant. Most of the time there was nobody in battlegrounds from 45 to 89. That's what we called "the big gap". I noticed this and wasn't the only one. This was NOT normal. Doesn't that already tell you something? That smelled that Alterac Valley caused brackets to be blocked. During Mists it would take between 1 to 4 hours to get a battleground in Warsong or any other specific bg Exp-on. There was no doubt in my mind that Mists had brought "this". (but in reality this problem goes further back in time, since they just moved maps around, they didn't change anything in the code of the queue system)
When WoD rolled around. What did you expect was gonna happen? Now that AV is 20+ and that you can't query levels 1-19, what do you think happened? Exactly what you can see now. /whos return absolutely no one in pvp battlegrounds from 1-99 most of the time. To find anyone in a bg it's one a hell of a work. 1-19 being blanked and 20-99 has Alterac Valley activated (and IoC at 60+ish). If you want you can query bracket by bracket and again here, you'll see that most of the time there are no bg when at these times 4 or 5 years back there were.
This just proved that we were right since Mists.
At 60-69 there are up to 11 maps including two 80-players raids. These are the map pool of max level of Mists, when people were already complaining about queue times. How can you expect a medium bracket to be working as it would for max level? When people like you pray gods morning noon and night "there are not enough people".
I also said that this was one of the reasons if not *the* reason 10-19 died in Mists. Notice that they used to have Warsong Gulch only. When they added Arathi Basin the bracket died shortly after. Coincidence? Not at all.
They kept adding maps along the years and queues kept increasing. Somewhere in Wotlk/Cata people in 60-64 exp-off launched the theory that there was some sort of round robin that prevented them to get more than 3 games a day. One warsong, one arathi, one eye of the storm. (I don't know if they meant 2 games at once of each). Then they were blocked because of Alterac Valley so they were done for the day. The system has no competence to override the biggest maps if there are "not enough people" (to quote your precious), no matter how long you wait (reasonably so). This is a bug.
In Mists, I conducted the following experiment (exp-on): I would start to queue 45min in AV then queue for Warsong. After 1h30 of queue in AV (and 45min in warsong) I got removed from AV queue and got left out in Warsong only, I believe I got a pop shortly after for Warsong. This little experiment shows that 1 single person can block the queue for an entire hour and half and for the entire population of the bracket before the queue system says "oh well screw that Alterac dude let's make a smaller map with the few people we have". 1 hour and 30. This is some really intense thinking. Back then 1H30 was an appetizer for me, I queued many many times for up to 3 or 4 hours to get pops in Mists.
Another fun experiment I conducted in WoD:
I'm queued for Warsong and Twin peaks for about 3 hours. Just! I look up if there is someone in a bg in my bracket. Say: "/who 60-69" I see someone in Eye of the Storm. He is 61. Lucky him! Half an hour later I make an update on my /who to see what's up. I'm 3h30 in queue. The same guy is again listed in eye of the storm, he is now 62. Can you make your own conclusion? This guy played 2 battlegrounds of the eye of the storm back to back while the system didn't even flip an eyelid on my 3 or 4 hours queue in the other maps. He requeued and within a few minutes he was granted priority over my 3 hours+. The round robin theory just goes out of the window it would seem. There is absolutely no explanation on how this happen. Except that it's another sever bug.
They all pile up. If I clocked 3 hours *2, how many hundred and thousands of hours get clocked by other people into nothing? Do these people stay subbed? I did not and I was a "patient" guy.
2. Second major problem: 2 battlegrounds at once minimum or nothing. A.k.a anti premade feature.
This one can also be verified most of the time like so: Queue for one bg and hope to be at the very top of the queue. When you are asked to enter a bg cancel it and right away queue again for the same map. You should normally get another pop within a few seconds. This will be another battleground entirely that has started a few seconds after the first one. This is not a lucky streak or anything like that. After these 2 games there will be nothing for at least an hour or 2, and there was nothing before for an hour or two. It's like the system gets a 10sec buff "Warsong time" or whatever map, and then afterwards it has a debuff of 2 hours.
You realize that somewhere after the addition of exp-off they added an anti premade feature (that they probably even hardened right when they "banned" OQueue), and I can guarantee you it had not existed prior say around Wrath of the lich king. What it does, is basically prevent games to starting until it has 2 rosters (or more) to prevent people to just wait the first game and say "yeah we got a pop we are in the same game, let's enter". We have to assume that it does this for all the maps including Alterac Valley and IoC which can clog the queue system like hell. 2AV=160 players.
This is counter productive for ANY bracket, any mode exp on/off.
Along with this was removed the starting of game when you have as low as 5 players each side. So from 5 players each side required, you needed at least 20 players each side with no increase on wow players. Make sense? So when you say "there is not enough people", yeah if you keep making the bar higher and higher of course no one will jump over it.
This little thing is supposed to fuck 1% of the player base, but it fucks twice as much the 99% others. That's skill.
3. Regions. In the face of EU.
This again another suspect of mine since the introduction of Russians. I quit wow for a short while about 2 months before this was introduced, queue times averaged at about 45min tops. When I came back with our dear russians it toped to 1h30 easily.
Sometimes I would get a good flow of games going especially in Warsong weekends, when the flow was instant-ish. Suddenly nothing for 3 hours, and I call it right away I know it must be russians in the other side. Of course they were right there in the other side! You can't always blame it on Russians because of the rule #2 . Your game might have been slowed down because of them but like a flip of a coin you might not be in the one game where the russians are.
I made an entire demonstration on that Russian thing, that I posted at least twice in the russian topic on eu. The blue boy just straight ignored it without looking back. No answers nothing. He could not. Queue times might be improved for russians but are not for English players (they are worsen for them until you can show me your source code Blizzard.)
Here is the example (this is the rough ratio btw 4:1)
You have 6 russian horde.
You have 5 russian alliance.
You have 24 english horde.
You have 24 english alliance.
As you can see with just english players you have enough numbers to satisfy the anti premade freak (#2 rule). So you can have 2 games starting right away if the english were entirely isolated. Instant pop for 20 players and some wait time for 4 players, each side.
But now you allow russians in the mix. The system decides to help the poor russian with their frozen nuts.
So it sets the 6 russian horde with 6 english alliance
And 5 russian alliance with 5 english horde.
But you have to wait until you have 5 more russian alliance.
And this is the funny part, all other english players have to wait too because of the anti premade rule... The games must start simultaneously or none will start.
So you have 10 english horde waiting for the 5 russian alliance, 10 english horde and 10 english alliance waiting for the English Vs Russian game to start. And there is still the 4 remaining english horde/alliance that would be waiting anyway.
So everyone in the english side is waiting as opposed to only 4! Madness.
This is not easy to grasp, so think and take time to re-read this.
Now the thing is, it's not just the Russians. There are germans, there are french. There is 4 regions! And this create a big fat mess. Especially for exp-off, you need just one guy queued out of nowhere in these non english regions to block everything. (if not slow them up at least, remember the 1h30 slow thinking experience)
Once in the US forums I was reading something that instantly made me realize something was wrong only in the EU:
"Well the queue times have reached 10min, let's go to bed." This was about exp-on btw. For them 10min was a sign that there would be no more games tonight. For us this sign happened at 45min+. There was no such thing as <10min games, that never existed except the warsong weekends.
Of course US doesn't have this region problem since they are not separated.
And we all know that when everything is considered working in the US nothing is being worked for the EU.
Also not only do we have our numbers reduced compared to other regions (US/Asia) because we cannot be grouped within the same faction with other germans, french etc (horde english +horde french for example), but we also have to suffer this "russian" phenomena from horde to alliance match ups.
This is a double edged sword we take straight in the face compared to US and I don't know how it works for chinese regions but they probably have more numbers than just the EN part of europe.
4 through 7 are more impacting exp-on than it is for exp-off, they have a minimum impact anyway but it's there. It piles up with the 3 major problems described above.
4. The removal of the pvp icon in WoD.
This is more of an exp-on thing. But hiding the pvp feature through like 3 or 4 clicks is definively not helping with queue times. It might sound little, but trust me I would be bored fast if not for my self made macro that does all that with one click of a button.
5. Competition between dungeon finder and pvp finder.
Let's not kid ourself, there is no competition, when someone is queued for both random battleground and random dungeon. Dungeon wins every time. It doesn't have the million of rules listed above, and it doesn't have 80 players raid (disguised into 160 players raids with rule#2 ). How can a 5 dungeon map not pop faster than a 160 players one? Over the years this trend has made it so people don't bother anymore with pvp.
6. Exp rewards entirely worthless in exp-on compared to the rest of the game.
7. Heirlooms plague.
Makes bgs only worth it for the elite.
This all can be proven by A+B and has been along the years if people took time to follow the evolution of the game which I did.
The queue system is old and clogged of numerous bugs since 2011, it needs to be entirely eviscerated and started over from the first line of code. When you have 10 million players, say 2million in europe and us each, and 15 to 20% of the players online at any time of the day are low level players. (this can be verified and is true), you cannot tell me you shouldn't have a 30sec maximum of queue time in the spirit of hearthstone's queue times. Any bracket, any mode, any faction. Btw speaking of faction, there little tale with trying to give free faction change and then reversing the racials has never been the solution to this, because all these problems listed apply everywhere in the game, so it's sickening to have to hear it all the time as an "exp off problem". It's not. The same code is being used for all modes.
Some games don't have millions of players how do they do it? Why was WoW able to do it in Vanilla and Burning Crusade and not anymore? (I have answered most of that in this post if you've read it)
(if someone can make a copy of this in the WoW forums, this might be more useful than what they have posted already no offense, feel free to conclude that yourself)
Healsatin
Legend
first off tldr 2nd if 19 xp ons are popping consistently i don't see why any other bracket not popping has anything to do with bugged ques. if anything it's a flaw in their que system that is working as intended and not the bug that has been plaguing battlegrounds since the release of wod. all the times i stated were for US servers, so i'm sorry if eu isn't popping but i assure you that it has the capability to pop if there were enough people (since 19s have been consistently popping since the fix). every single point you listed has absolutely nothing to do with the que bug that was fixed, and everything to do with how the bg system was set up by blizzard. every example you seem to give is based on past information that is no longer correct or relevant. you're flat out refusing to acknowledge that ques are at least way better than they used to be. most of the stuff you're talking about is literal nonsense. there is no such thing as an anti-premade feature as i consistently get more than 2 wsgs in a row... there is no 2 hour wait like you claim to re-enter a bg. your post is literally just rambling on about nothing relevant from patches that are in many cases years old. please no one copy this nonsense to the wow forums, literally none of it is coherent and there are no relevant points relating to the former que bug. sorry wow isn't perfect, at least accept the giant step in the right direction that happened on tuesday. at least knowledge that your points are not even relevant to this patch. it seems like you literally haven't tried to join a bg this week and are just assuming nothing has changed from a few months ago.
Chubbybunny
Legend
At least I use capital letters and not make one unreadable wall of text in one single sentence. Like I give a shit if anyone copy my post on wow forum... Actually please don't! Because this exactly what I want from [people] like you. I want you to stay in the shit you're in for weeks and months to come.
You've got like 30k hks among all your twinks. You obviously know what you're talking about, I've got 20 times that.
Every single point I've raised is relevant to WoD. You're nothing. Get lost, I don't need your comment, you have no value whatsoever. You seem to be jelly because you haven't been playing WoW for as long as I have or something. I'm trying to get in your fucking head, but it's an impossible task.
This is patch 6.0 as you can see twin peaks+warsong gulch wasn't possible before at 60.
You can see everything I have explained. Pause bug etc. Take the relevance to the fucking patch deep in your guts. I don't care if 19 is working, I don't give a shit of your 19 bracket. Zero.
You've got like 30k hks among all your twinks. You obviously know what you're talking about, I've got 20 times that.
Every single point I've raised is relevant to WoD. You're nothing. Get lost, I don't need your comment, you have no value whatsoever. You seem to be jelly because you haven't been playing WoW for as long as I have or something. I'm trying to get in your fucking head, but it's an impossible task.
Not relevant to this fucking patch? http://i.imgur.com/1kgGthi.jpg
This is patch 6.0 as you can see twin peaks+warsong gulch wasn't possible before at 60.
You can see everything I have explained. Pause bug etc. Take the relevance to the fucking patch deep in your guts. I don't care if 19 is working, I don't give a shit of your 19 bracket. Zero.
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Healsatin
Legend
the reason i said not to copy your post to the wow forums is that none of the information is from THIS PATCH it may have been from last patch, but that's when ques were still bugged. there's no need to get so upset that i so easily corrected your false statements with relevant current information. i'm not a prick, you're just making stuff up with literally no evidence to back it up and i can't stand people who spread false information like it's fact. i actually have well over 30k hk's on just my 19 twinks which i have only been playing since the very end of cata (started just before mop prepatch). i have actually been playing wow since vanilla (even before zg bwl aq and naxx were implemented) making it 10 years now so there's a good chance i have in fact been playing wow longer than you have.
patch 6.0 had bugged ques are you dense? we are now in 6.0.3.19342 so unless those screenshots are from this week (which they aren't since your calendar says it's the 7th, well before the fix was implemented). your screenshot is literally not from this patch how stupid can you be? you're literally insulting me because you don't understand what patch we're in and that the fix happened this Tuesday, February 17th 2015. any screenshot before that date is not relevant to the ques now in the least and you are clearly too small minded to understand that anything that was wrong with ques before that date does not apply to the current state of wow's bg ques
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