It is a shame..

[Srs]

Why do you F2Ps keep pretending as if 29s (or 24s before) depend on you for activity?

Don't you realize that if you stopped playing F2Ps we would continue to play (and probably grow the bracket)?

If anything, it's your presence that is keeping the better 29s from queuing up into random games.

You're biting the hand that feeds, when you talk down to f2ps. Like it our not, you are playing in the f2p bracket. F2ps will have primacy in whatever bracket they are capped at because of the sheer numbers. The p2w population would shift to follow if they ever did changed the level cap.

I know that you're probably mad what Blizzard did to 29s. However, you'd be better served to try and get the f2ps to work with you, and play objectively, than to call them fodder and have them sandbag you intentionally.

 

[Dorigon]

You're biting the hand that feeds, when you talk down to f2ps. Like it our not, you are playing in the f2p bracket. F2ps will have primacy in whatever bracket they are capped at because of the sheer numbers. The twink population would shift to follow if they ever did changed the level cap.

You'd be better served to try and get the f2ps to work with you, and play objectively, than to call them fodder and have them sandbag you intentionally.

What is your definition of primacy? Superior numbers?

 

[willix]

You're biting the hand that feeds, when you talk down to f2ps.

Talk down to?

1. You're lower level.
2. You don't pay for the part of the game you play.
3. You constantly whine and insult anyone who isn't a F2P.

How exactly can we do anything but talk down to F2Ps? It's not as if you present a challenge in pvp, care about bettering yourselves, or even support the company whose game you play. If you want respect, buy the game, make a 29, then come play.

Also, you don't feed us, we feed ourselves. Just like we have since TBC. When we want games, we get together and make them happen.

Stop acting like you're giving us Filet Mignon when you keep shoving spam down our throats.

 

[madhombre]

f2ps can play the game for free = no reason to complain, be grateful
p2ps (in this bracket) get pops due f2ps = no reason to complain, be grateful

so willix, if you dont like the current 29pvp just stop queing bgs because thats how the bracket would be without f2ps -> standing afk in org, nothing else to do (atleast on EU realms)

 

[Spiriel]

It's not as if you present a challenge in pvp [...]If you want respect, buy the game, make a 29, then come play.

And if you want "respect" why dont u try f2p-restrictions? For "challenge" and stuff...

 

[Skeezin]

Why do you F2Ps keep pretending as if 29s (or 24s before) depend on you for activity?

Don't you realize that if you stopped playing F2Ps we would continue to play (and probably grow the bracket)?

If anything, it's your presence that is keeping the better 29s from queuing up into random games.

pretty sure deep down you know this would not be the case, theres a reason why 19s and every other bracket is dead right now

sorry but a few washed up 29s is not enough to keep the bracket going without the help of the f2p army whether you like it or not

 

[Srs]

What is your definition of primacy? Superior numbers?

More important. F2p bracket would hardly exist without f2ps.

 

[Rai]

f2ps can play the game for free = no reason to complain, be grateful
p2ps (in this bracket) get pops due f2ps = no reason to complain, be grateful

so willix, if you dont like the current 29pvp just stop queing bgs because thats how the bracket would be without f2ps -> standing afk in org, nothing else to do (atleast on EU realms)

agree, nothing more to say just....f2p was NEVER befor stronger like now

 

[Ohai]

cant speak for US but i'll imagine it would be in the same boat, in EU 20-29 would die quickly as fuck if f2ps went away. Which would probably be a good thing for the 19 bracket since thats where most people would go to for continued twinking as 19 bracket is the only bracket who have had some consistancy in terms of getting pops.

F2ps are the foundation of this bracket, yeah you can argue that 29s have been around forever but lets be real here, pre wod how many games have there been in the bracket since xp lock was introduced compared to what its like now?

Hundreds, maybe thousands?

 

[Ohai]

pretty sure deep down you know this would not be the case, theres a reason why 19s and every other bracket is dead right now

sorry but a few washed up 29s is not enough to keep the bracket going without the help of the f2p army whether you like it or not

"a few washed up 29s" kept games going through 3-4 consecutive expansions without the "f2p army". I can't speak for recently, but at the slowest we would resort to a scheduled game night once a week. You actually don't know much about the history of this bracket, nor do i suspect you care to.

More important. F2p bracket would hardly exist without f2ps.

Can't argue with logic that sound.

 

[Ohai]

I gave this some thought while I should have been working today...


This really is an interesting generational gap type thing going on here. I figure that since the game is more than a decade old, it is safe to assume most of the p2p players (P2W is still too hilarious of an acronym) are around ages 20-40. This new generation of players are used to the widely spreading F2P games that have been around most of these last ~2-3 years. (DOTA2, LoL, every MMO to recently release, every mobile app). Judging from a lack of desire to pay 15 dollars a month for a game, I assume the age range is much closer to 10-18. There is an expectation that they are appreciated for contributing nothing financially (by other players, and by blizzard?), and a misguided sense that their feelings or desires are valid here in this game. In other f2p games, that's actually pretty accurate. Here, it's just not.


Most of the 29s I know looked at the 20-24 bracket as a waste of time, and stayed queuing our weekly games (anywhere from 1-2 to multiple nights a week for hours, depending on what expansion you are discussion). Only mouthbreathers wanted to roll 24s with the express purpose of killing undergeared 20s (or carrying them). 29s are now subjected to level 20s, and are expected to thank them for activity in a situation where they are detrimentally poorly geared. Then, to my understanding, they have to listen to crying about p2w in a game that is designed around the monthly payment model.

I'd imagine that EU, who struggled for years and really didn't get games, might be happier to see the influx of players.

 

[Skeezin]

"a few washed up 29s" kept games going through 3-4 consecutive expansions without the "f2p army". I can't speak for recently, but at the slowest we would resort to a scheduled game night once a week. You actually don't know much about the history of this bracket, nor do i suspect you care to.

lmao okay can we stop dwelling on the past

 

[Ohai]

lmao okay can we stop dwelling on the past

When your statement of "games wouldn't happen without us" is patently incorrect, I will point out the past as the indicator you have no clue what you are talking about. Just because you asked, I'll try to keep the dwelling to a minimum.

 

[Dorigon]

More important. F2p bracket would hardly exist without f2ps.

With there being so many, the value of individual f2p's is actually diminished.

 

[Srs]

With there being so many, the value of individual f2p's is actually diminished.

We can't all be special snowflakes.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start stuff. I understand with your frustration with the combination of the brackets, there have been some drawbacks from the changes. However, f2ps did gain a lot, not least of all, the addition to some good players from the 29s into the bracket. 29s gained battleground pops, though that may have turned out to be a double-edged sword.

It is unfortunate that you guys are given a bad name by the terribad 24s that leveled to 29, and you that you have become de facto pay-to-wins, albeit not by your choice. It sucks that you can't really have competitive, random games with just 29s. It sucks that f2ps can't have their own bracket. Such is life.

The thing is, you guys aren't going to shame f2ps into all the sudden paying for the game and rolling 29s. Many of the f2p vets on TI have p2p accounts, some might even have 29s (I have one I don't really play). But as far as getting most f2ps to pay for the game to be on your level, I think if by some miracle, they did, I don't think that they would twink this bracket. I think that most of the f2ps that have been around for awhile, continue to do it because they enjoy the challenge, and would rather play endgame, or some other bracket.

If 29s are truly interested in competitive play without the burden of f2ps, might I suggest scheduling some wargames in Albino's thread.

 

[MYT]

I love the wargame/premade 29 only idea and am up for it, but here's another suggestion....

Queue random (or your regular game of choice if you don't care about bonus honor) AND Gilneas. From what I've been told only 28/29's can queue for Gilneas, so if it pops it is by definition just the 29ers.

Personally I like many of the 20's but when I hear them cry I tell them to shutup and I certainly speak up when they make generic statements like 29's on their team make their team lose. Quite the opposite I'd say. The avg 20 is far less skilled. There's plenty of good 20's, so this is about the average player at each.

I am already queueing that way so if others do it then it may work. I'm queued a lot on my 29 as it's separate from my main account so I just sit off to the side queued.

 

[asapoverlord]

"a few washed up 29s" kept games going through 3-4 consecutive expansions without the "f2p army". I can't speak for recently, but at the slowest we would resort to a scheduled game night once a week. You actually don't know much about the history of this bracket, nor do i suspect you care to.

I know skeezin can't speak from experience on the MoP revival of 29s but even in the mop revivals washed up 29s were the minority.