Effective Health 2.0

Ichi

Legend
alright so we all have seen the posts of the new Battlemaster BoA Heirloom trinket

this will ahve +6 Resil. now my question was is that better then AGM. w/o bubble ofc

so heres is some of my findings for MYSELF

Xhayden currently runs 2458 health in tank set as brewmaster with Rumsy

with only resil in mind.

PvP trinket - 6 resil
Shoulders 4 resil
GSoJ - 6 resil Total of 16 or an extra 7.86% ~ 47.86% for pvp purpose

No agm 2458 x 1.4786 = 3634.4 ehp
wih agm 2578 x 1.4786 = 3811.8 ehp

now with the new trinket it will be as follows

Pvp trinket - 6 resil
Shoulders - 4 resil
GSoJ - 6 resil
Battlemaster trinket - 6 resil total of 22 resil or an extra 10.78% ~ 50.78% for pvp purpose


now we get no agm with this but here goes

2458 x 1.5078 = 3706.2 ehp.

so with this alone, no extra effects added in, agm with 1 Heirloom trinekt with resil is BiS for Effective health.

now lets check meh math, and then lets find out what it means with the effects!
 
I'm keen to use this on non-caster Human toons. As caster I'd rather an int trinket, but on say a Human ret Paladin I'd rock One AGM/Battlemaster Trink. Looking forward to it!
 
I don't get it, so why make the thread if your math isn't complete?

Whatever.
 
didnt you forget the whole point of using the BM trinket - ironically not the passive 6 resil - but the on use hp....

which would scale to make resil worth even more...

sigh...

then youll say but we arent comparing the on use effects even though ones a 15min cd when BM is like 1.5 or 2min...

then youll spend more time looking at gear options and stay completely oblivious as to whats going on in the gulch to even make use of all these numbers...

and remain situationally inept even after playing for several years...

like the majority of the bracket...

sigh...
 
Ichi, are you taking resilience DR's in to account? I think it would decay a little bit, per resilience, between 16 and 22.
 
2x 6 resi trinket > AGM if your a BiS FCer. Switch to AGM once every 15 mins for CD.
/threadclosed
 
Yapah said:
2x 6 resi trinket > AGM if your a BiS FCer. Switch to AGM once every 15 mins for CD.
/threadclosed
Click to expand...

another lost retart
 
Karmaz said:
another lost retart
Click to expand...

lol? how am I lost? Math clearly shows that 6 resi > 12 stam for a BiS FC...

The only use for AGM is for the 1k absorb once every 15 mins ^.^

EDIT: As for OP your math is incorrect, PvP shoulders gives 5 resi not 4. So its 17 resi and 23 resi
 
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Yapah said:
lol? how am I lost? Math clearly shows that 6 resi > 12 stam for a BiS FC...

The only use for AGM is for the 1k absorb once every 15 mins ^.^

EDIT: As for OP your math is incorrect, PvP shoulders gives 5 resi not 4. So its 17 resi and 23 resi
Click to expand...

the mail agi or leather agi is 4 and so is the plate one. not sure what class were talking about but they arent all 5.
 
I'm not entirely sure how this works or how people calculate things...

But I don't see how having a resilience trinket over an AGM is ever going to be worth while unless you have multiple healers healing you and all you care about is maximum damage reduction over a long period of time. You'd have to take 4861 damage for the 2.88% resilience difference to actually beat out the 140 extra health.

And it goes without saying that the higher HP you have, the longer it takes the enemy team to kill you as long as the damage you have to take is higher than your actual HP, due to the fact that those healers have a longer period of time to heal you.

So it's simply not worth swapping out the AGMs.

If anyone that makes any decent sense would care to explain why swapping out a 12 stam trinket for a 6 resilience one is worth it, please feel free. I could be wrong, I just can't get it to add up :)
Edit: (This of cause is not taking Battlemaster "use" effect into account).

/lindenkron
 
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You should not swap out for the 6 resil. You should give swap out for the on use effect if human though.
 
lindenkron said:
I'm not entirely sure how this works or how people calculate things...

But I don't see how having a resilience trinket over an AGM is ever going to be worth while unless you have multiple healers healing you and all you care about is maximum damage reduction over a long period of time. You'd have to take 4861 damage for the 2.88% resilience difference to actually beat out the 140 extra health.

And it goes without saying that the higher HP you have, the longer it takes the enemy team to kill you as long as the damage you have to take is higher than your actual HP, due to the fact that those healers have a longer period of time to heal you.

So it's simply not worth swapping out the AGMs.

If anyone that makes any decent sense would care to explain why swapping out a 12 stam trinket for a 6 resilience one is worth it, please feel free. I could be wrong, I just can't get it to add up :)
Edit: (This of cause is not taking Battlemaster "use" effect into account).

/lindenkron
Click to expand...
If you die before you even take ~5000 damage you should probably not FC or you didn't have any healers.

And the part about the higher HP doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, are you guys still calculating this without considering resilience DR?
 
lejn mana isn't a factor anymore so the only thing to consider when fcing is the gear that maximizes your abilities to live 100%-0 because as soon as you get heals again you are going to be topped.
 
Lejn said:
If you die before you even take ~5000 damage you should probably not FC or you didn't have any healers.

And the part about the higher HP doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, are you guys still calculating this without considering resilience DR?
Click to expand...

Seems like you didn't read my post. Also I wrote: If anyone that makes any decent sense - yet you don't seem to do so by responding with something I've already expressed my opinion on, without bringing in a counter reason as to why it'd be better. Only saying I shouldn't FC. That doesn't bring forth a worthy argument.

The part about the higher HP does make sense. To do damage that would even up 140 hp, with a 2.88% dmg reduction you'd have to have 4861 hp. How does that not make sense? It's quite simple.

As for your "having healers" even though I already explained it in previous post - having a high HP poll - with the burst currently available - means the time and amount of damage it would take to burst you down is more efficient with +140 hp, than it is with 2.88% resilience. Meaning a character with 2.2k hp and that extra 2.88% dmg reduction would be worse off than a player with 2340 hp.

You'd have to have 4861 hp, before having the 2.88% dmg reduction would equalize that burst survivability.

And as for the "constant healing, resil reduction is higher" it also goes without saying, as stated in previous post, that if a FC has a higher health pool the time it would take to kill the player is longer giving potentially CC'd / middle of casting / line of sight healers a chance to get heals off on the FC, as the resil isn't as effective until the FC hits the 4861 hp.

Again; Unless I fundamentally misunderstood something (Which is why I was requesting someone that made any decent amount of sense) then 140 hp is indeed more efficient than 6 resi in that contest.

Please do correct me with evidence and point of views that state the opposite, I'm not to say I'm right. But don't jerk me around with your "you shouldn't flag carry" statements. Please.

-lindenkron
 
lindenkron said:
Seems like you didn't read my post. Also I wrote: If anyone that makes any decent sense - yet you don't seem to do so by responding with something I've already expressed my opinion on, without bringing in a counter reason as to why it'd be better. Only saying I shouldn't FC. That doesn't bring forth a worthy argument.

The part about the higher HP does make sense. To do damage that would even up 140 hp, with a 2.88% dmg reduction you'd have to have 4861 hp. How does that not make sense? It's quite simple.

As for your "having healers" even though I already explained it in previous post - having a high HP poll - with the burst currently available - means the time and amount of damage it would take to burst you down is more efficient with +140 hp, than it is with 2.88% resilience. Meaning a character with 2.2k hp and that extra 2.88% dmg reduction would be worse off than a player with 2340 hp.

You'd have to have 4861 hp, before having the 2.88% dmg reduction would equalize that burst survivability.

And as for the "constant healing, resil reduction is higher" it also goes without saying, as stated in previous post, that if a FC has a higher health pool the time it would take to kill the player is longer giving potentially CC'd / middle of casting / line of sight healers a chance to get heals off on the FC, as the resil isn't as effective until the FC hits the 4861 hp.

Again; Unless I fundamentally misunderstood something (Which is why I was requesting someone that made any decent amount of sense) then 140 hp is indeed more efficient than 6 resi in that contest.

Please do correct me with evidence and point of views that state the opposite, I'm not to say I'm right. But don't jerk me around with your "you shouldn't flag carry" statements. Please.

-lindenkron
Click to expand...
May I ask which expansion you are playing? In the game I am playing FC's with 2.2k+ HP don't get globaled.

Which part about "you should take more than 5000 damage before you die didn't you understand?
 
lindenkron said:
I'm not entirely sure how this works or how people calculate things...

But I don't see how having a resilience trinket over an AGM is ever going to be worth while unless you have multiple healers healing you and all you care about is maximum damage reduction over a long period of time. You'd have to take 4861 damage for the 2.88% resilience difference to actually beat out the 140 extra health.

And it goes without saying that the higher HP you have, the longer it takes the enemy team to kill you as long as the damage you have to take is higher than your actual HP, due to the fact that those healers have a longer period of time to heal you.

So it's simply not worth swapping out the AGMs.

If anyone that makes any decent sense would care to explain why swapping out a 12 stam trinket for a 6 resilience one is worth it, please feel free. I could be wrong, I just can't get it to add up :)
Edit: (This of cause is not taking Battlemaster "use" effect into account).

/lindenkron
Click to expand...

Effective Health: Resilience vs. Stamina | Twinking.net That explains the math behind it all. Using basic math you can calculate your effective health. For a BiS flag carrier there is a certain point when your effective health is higher with 6 resi trinket instead of 12 stam trinket.

So for a flag carrier 6 resi > 12 stamina unless your a druid, BM monk, Prot Warr, or Prot Pala. Then you need to factor in the 15% or 20% increased stamina you get but even then sometimes resi comes out on top.
 
augiddin said:
lejn mana isn't a factor anymore so the only thing to consider when fcing is the gear that maximizes your abilities to live 100%-0 because as soon as you get heals again you are going to be topped.
Click to expand...
I don't see why this is so difficult >.>
 
jesus stop over thinking this game and just play it... it's 19s for goodness sake.
 
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