80 rogues' survival guide in the 80~84 bracket.

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glancealot

Legend
First, gears.

it is pretty flexible, you can be completely defensive, or equip some 409 pieces to make damage dealing a tiny bit easier.

here is the most defensive set-up.

chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA

no reforge is done because i didn't bother. but haste should be what you focus on because colossus shield stacks and is godly.

there are a lot of things you can do to increase your killing power at the cost of a tiny bit of survivability. for example, you can replace bracers/gloves/caster ring with 409 alternatives, you can also replace one weapon enchant with Windsong or something else. be creative, don't give aelobin a chance to call you out because you "copied a template" :p

Second, talents/spec.

Out of the five tiers, i personally believe 3 tiers are no brainers: you must have them.

1, Subterfuge
2, Elusiveness
3, Burst of Speed

ok let me explain:

subterfuge is important because you are much much stronger when stealthed. multiple openers on multiple opponents makes you a monster CC class, you do not need vanish to land 2 openers, this is a god send.

elusiveness is good by itself, but Glyph of Feint makes it GODLY. you are taking 20% damage to begin with, if you keep feint up, you only take 20%*70%=14% damage. you will rarely die if you keep recuperate up and hit people to proc colossus shield, which by the way, is affected by the damage reduction(at least the 80% resil part).

burst of speed makes running flag easier in WSG and EotS, it costs so much energy but it is so good.

Spec, any spec works.

i suggest combat, simply because killing spree works so well with double colossus, it's the perfect "oh shit" button to press.

Third, glyphs and profession:

the only must have glyph is Glyph of Feint

the only must have profession is engineering: for Spinal Healing Injector, Goblin Glider and other tinkers, as well as grenade and bombs.

for the other profession, herb and LW are both very good. herb would heal 15k which is a fourth "oh shit" button besides vanish/killing spree/spinal injector. and it also gives 80%+ haste for when you need to burst down someone.

LW is just straight up more stamina.

Last, play style

i won't tell you how to play your rogue, but i will tell you how i play my rogue, just for references.

1, multiple cheap shot out of stealth in group fights because i am spec'd into Nerve Strike, other times, i of course garrote casters, multiple casters, all thanks to Subterfuge

2, keep feint up, at all times. all times. did you get the message? keep feint up 100% of the time.

3, run flags in WSG and EotS, assault and defend nodes in AB, you know, the usual. but Burst of Speed coupled with 11 second sprint helps all of those immensely.

ok that's all for now, i will update when i have more things to write.
 
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don't give aelobin a chance to call you out because you "copied a template"

Not once have I said that I have a problem with people copying templates (I've even handed out several DK ones in the past when people asked me for them).

If you go back and check my posts you'll see that I actually said:
- I dislike it when someone comes to this forum asking for others to make them a template when they haven't tried doing so themselves (and if they can't do it on their own, they probably need to read up on their class/spec)
- Someone who doesn't have experience or a very good understanding of a class should not be creating "BiS" templates, and should at least be able to explain how they made each of their choices

Edit: Btw, I really don't think I can take you seriously anymore after reading your recent posts in the US 80 thread about how you plan to use this meta. You keep claiming that you're "thinking outside the box" but just because something is a crazy/original idea, it doesn't mean it's useful or logical.
 
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You must like links.

May want to say this is strictly a BG-only approach, since there isn't a lot of use for any of those tinkers as a rogue in RBGs/Arenas.

RBG's and arenas happen often at 80 now?
 
Btw, I really don't think I can take you seriously anymore after reading your recent posts in the US 80 thread about how you plan to use this meta.

what's wrong with that meta? or better yet, show me a better meta. mind you, i assign each point of resil a lot of value.

btw you can link to a specific post like this

Code:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794212224?page=23#443
 
what's wrong with that meta? or better yet, show me a better meta.

typical conversation with Aelobin...

Aelobin: "that is stupid"

Me: "why is it stupid? show me a better alternative"

Aelobin: (remains quiet)

i mean, splosion gives me a hard time too but he at least is specific about what he has a problem with, so most of the time it turns into a constructive conversation/debate.

please stop your vague criticism aelobin i am getting sick of it.
 
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I'm not sure it works that way around. You justify it first, then we usually tell you what is wrong with that. That's how it works. Aelo just stays quiet on these boards because I doubt he cares to get into arguments like I do.

do you really think i need to justify that meta choice? i think it's pretty obvious, it is the only meta that still functions when i use only http://www.wowhead.com/item=40127

and the 5% stun resist is really nice imo, it goes hand in hand with my keep-feint-up-and-stack-resil build...
 
also, Enchant Weapon - Colossus stacks (you can have 2 up at the same time when you have both weapons enchanted with it)...so the value of resil just sky-rocketed. and it is 8000 somehow, not 7500 as the tool tip indicates.
 
How did the value of resilience just skyrocket? Surely the survival value of that enchant skyrocketed, not the other way around? (80% resilience means it absorbs around 8000*5 = 40000 unmitigated damage?)

As for the meta, considering you're a rogue (which means you use wrathful chest. surely there's something more useful than 5% stun resistance, for exchanging say...4 resilience (putting agi/resi in the chest to net you 10 agi and 16 resi)? I know you love resilience (I doubt you've failed to make that part clear), but it seems a little too much, even at this point. even perhaps going for stam/resi, since that lets you get the stun reduction metas, which I'm sure are on average way​ more powerful than the resistance meta.
 
How did the value of resilience just skyrocket? Surely the survival value of that enchant skyrocketed, not the other way around? (80% resilience means it absorbs around 8000*5 = 40000 unmitigated damage?)

yes.

As for the meta, considering you're a rogue (which means you use wrathful chest. surely there's something more useful than 5% stun resistance, for exchanging say...4 resilience (putting agi/resi in the chest to net you 10 agi and 16 resi)?

actually no...best i can do is put a red/blue gem in my chest to get Relentless Earthsiege Diamond, so i lose 14 resil. i didn't want that because i actually also quite like the 5% stun resistance.

in fact, i value 5% stun resistance to be almost 5% increase in my survivability because it is very hard to kill me when i am not stunned.

i could use the blacksmith "exploit" but that would be a different story.
 
i guess you mean this one?

Persistent Earthsiege Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft

well sadly i prefer 5% stun resistance + 14 resil (it's 14, not 4! why did you keep saying 4? the socket is red, the requirement is blue) over

10% stun duration + 21 crit rating + a purple gem.
 
You need to see that my post had two parts. I was talking about matching the socket with an ORANGE GEM (I can do huge coloured text too, it's not exactly difficult) with agi/resilience, for a loss of FOUR resilience (10 + 6 = 16, which is 4 less than 20). Please stop assuming I mean that you use a purple gem for this. I never mentioned that at all.

I'm starting to see why you get even less respect around here, you just don't read what you respond to completely.
 
typical conversation with Aelobin...

Aelobin: "that is stupid"

Me: "why is it stupid? show me a better alternative"

Aelobin: (remains quiet)

Surprisingly I have better things to be doing than arguing with you all day. Nevertheless, I'm here now whilst I take a break from levelling my mage, so take your pick:

Imbued Unstable Diamond: Base gem for each comparison

Swift Skyflare Diamond: (13 agi + 21 crit + minor speed) vs (4 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.18% dodge + minor speed) vs (0.07% damage reduction + 5% stun resist)
Note: The best choice imo unless a rogue has speed increases that don't stack with it

Powerful Earthsiege Diamond: (77 stam + 6 agi + 7 crit + 10% stun reduction) vs (30 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.08% dodge + 10% stun reduction) vs (3.7k EH + 5% stun resist)
Note: If you're wanting to be in stuns less, I'd take the reduction over the resist as it's 5% more and actually reliable

Shielded Skyflare Diamond: (62 stam + 19 agi + 4 crit + 2% spell damage reduction) vs (24 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.27% dodge + 2% spell damage reduction) vs (2.9k EH + 5% stun resist)
Note: That 2% spell damage reduction will be multiplicative with resi

Enigmatic Skyflare Diamond: (26 agi + 29 crit + 10% snare/root reduction) vs (14 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.37% dodge + 10% snare/root reduction) vs (0.27% damage reduction + 5% stun resist)
Note: If you find roots/snares to sometimes be a problem

Next time do the maths/research yourself please instead of bringing some ridiculous idea to the table without any actual proof backing it (which you've been doing a lot recently).

Also, you might want to test that meta to make sure stuns can still be resisted.

--

Edit: 2 more for you to consider (because I'm such a nice guy, right?)

Relentless Earthsiege Diamond: (67 agi + 8 crit + 3% crit damage) vs (24 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.95% dodge) vs (0.47% damage reduction + 5% stun resist)
Note: If you still think avoidance is valuable for PvP, 1% is quite a lot

Persistent Earthsiege Diamond: (15stam + 6 agi + 21 crit + 10% stun reduction) vs (10 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.08% dodge + 10% stun reduction) vs (1.7k EH + 5% stun resist)
Note: Another stun reduction comparison which I missed before that seems to be better than the other one

PS: You'll no doubt ignore the offensive stats so I won't even bother going there (although "normal" people should definitely take them into consideration). Also bare in mind that your EH is currently sitting at 256.7k, which means the EH bonuses listed above (1.7k-3.7k) are actually only increasing it by 0.66%-1.44% of what you already have.
 
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PS: You'll no doubt ignore the offensive stats so I won't even bother going there (although "normal" people should definitely take them into consideration). Also bare in mind that your EH is currently sitting at 256.7k, which means the EH bonuses listed above (1.7k-3.7k) are actually only increasing it by 0.66%-1.44% of what you already have.

ok it does seem i will simply ignored the offensive stats. okay, 2 reasons:

1, these 409 weapons do too much damage to begin with, a tiny bit of agi is negligible imo.

2, let me first explain why i value resil so much: it's not just simply more EH, it allows my colossus shield last longer too. so each time my colossus procs, the value of resil goes up. i haven't tested on average how many colossus procs i get between deaths in BG's but i suspect it will be a pretty big number, should be at least 20+ considering all of the other "oh sh1t" buttons i have. (cloak of shadows/vanish/burst of speed/sprint/a defensive-shadowdance/spinal healing/600 herb healing/shadowmeld etc)

Swift Skyflare Diamond: (13 agi + 21 crit + minor speed) vs (4 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.18% dodge + minor speed) vs (0.07% damage reduction + 5% stun resist)
Note: The best choice imo unless a rogue has speed increases that don't stack with it

unfortunately, fleet footed is built in now.

Powerful Earthsiege Diamond: (77 stam + 6 agi + 7 crit + 10% stun reduction) vs (30 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.08% dodge + 10% stun reduction) vs (3.7k EH + 5% stun resist)
Note: If you're wanting to be in stuns less, I'd take the reduction over the resist as it's 5% more and actually reliable

30 resil is too much to give up for this defensive build. and personally i like resist way more than reduction.

Shielded Skyflare Diamond: (62 stam + 19 agi + 4 crit + 2% spell damage reduction) vs (24 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.27% dodge + 2% spell damage reduction) vs (2.9k EH + 5% stun resist)
Note: That 2% spell damage reduction will be multiplicative with resi

too much resil to give up.

Enigmatic Skyflare Diamond: (26 agi + 29 crit + 10% snare/root reduction) vs (14 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.37% dodge + 10% snare/root reduction) vs (0.27% damage reduction + 5% stun resist)
Note: If you find roots/snares to sometimes be a problem

actually snare/root would be the last thing i worry about when i have multiple snare breakers. and -10% duration doesn't really help in pvp that much.

Next time do the maths/research yourself please instead of bringing some ridiculous idea to the table without any actual proof backing it (which you've been doing a lot recently).

Also, you might want to test that meta to make sure stuns can still be resisted.

why did you assume that i didn't? biased much?

Relentless Earthsiege Diamond: (67 agi + 8 crit + 3% crit damage) vs (24 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.95% dodge) vs (0.47% damage reduction + 5% stun resist)
Note: If you still think avoidance is valuable for PvP, 1% is quite a lot

too much resil to give up. and assuming your comment is about 1% dodge, actually i don't worry too much about dodge/parry in pvp now as a rogue.

Persistent Earthsiege Diamond: (15stam + 6 agi + 21 crit + 10% stun reduction) vs (10 resi + 5% stun resist)
= (0.08% dodge + 10% stun reduction) vs (1.7k EH + 5% stun resist)
Note: Another stun reduction comparison which I missed before that seems to be better than the other one

this is the one that i had in mind for the longest time. but in the end i decided to go with 5% stun resist. 10% less duration is really negligible when my race isn't orc. if i were orc, i'd go with this one tho.

p.s. hey splosion, did aelobin ever mention 4 resil? what meta did you have in mind for that "orange gem" you suggested? did you just assume that n yellow +1 orange automatically satisfy some meta?
 
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