Resilence vs Stamina - Is MM still BiS?

Sabzep

Sabzep

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    • I wanted to check if the new patch changes the BiS shoulder piece for cloth wearers. I haven't been lucky with farming
    Magicians Mantle and hope Exquisite Sunderseer Mantle is better( 9 Sta vs 1Int, 3Crit, 5Res) so i can give up chest hunting.

    Cloth wearers can have three pieces with Resilence: Insignia + GSTOJ + ESM
    Totalling a Resilence rating of 18 (8,09%). Together with baseline resilience of 40% thats 48,09%. That means the
    PVE Damage is reduced by 48,09% (or multiplied by 0.5191) before it hits in PVP.

    With MM the Resilience Rating is only 13 (5,91%) + Baseline Resilience. But the 9 more Stamina also give 90 more HP.

    For example on my priest with ESM this means:

    1751HP * 100% / (100% - 48,08%) = 3373 PVE Damage to drop my life from 100% to 0.

    With MM it is 90 HP more but the Resilence is lower.

    1751 + 90 * 100% / (100%-45,91%) = 3403 PVE Damage. 3373 Damage to kill with ESM to 3404 with MM. The Difference is about 1%.

    The break even point is 2143HP with ESM. From this point on ESM is absolutely better than MM.

    Considering the 3 crit rating and 1 Int. ESM doesn't look so bad.

    This doesn't however regard the effects in battle:

    If you take take damage and are healed resilience works in your favor. You need less heals to keep up, whereas stamina only has an effect when you are close to death.


    Also worth mentioning but impossible to calculate are the psychological effects your high HP may have on teammates or enemies.


    Conclusion:
    MM might still be BiS but with only about a 1-2% total HP survival rate. And keeping the missing crit in mind. I won't worry about it too much and keep farming casual.
    Also remember the break even point of 2143HP seems to be attainable with enough buffs.

    Corrections and criticism is welcome.
     
    You are probably right, but i was curious and wanted to share the numbers i crunched. I do have to admit I'm biased in this situation and would like ESM to win over MM. But it is also interesting to the put numbers into relation. 9 Stamina vs 5 Resilience are not 90 more Health Points but more about 20. It depends on how much HP you have.
    For example Miacon's priests:
    Bloodelf with MM 1731HP = Your Health has to drop to 1-23 HP during a fight for MM to be better than ESM
    Human with MM 1821HP = 1-18 HP
    thats different than the 90 HP difference you see directly.
    And the more HP you have the better the resilience scales. At 2143, 5 Resilience become better than 9 Stam in every way. I also believe that when the heals a nerfed and you actually struggle to out heal dps resilience wins.
    My 2 Cents.
     
    dunno im sticking to my MM.

    Wouldnt hurt to have a resil setup on my shaman(teh hammer/shoulders/trinket) but im too lazy to grind for honor plus honor nerf with nothing dying i wont pvp on my shaman for a bit.
     
    Sabstep, assuming your math is right I agree that ESM is better than MM. The fact that you ignore the extra damage and still see gains in survivability makes it a clear winner for all classes. I understand people will have a hard time unequiping their MM after spending ages farming for, but it is the right choice.
     
    loomed shoulders or MM either way priests will own... they just need to pop 1k absorv bubble(not AGM).
     
    rsq said:
    both shoulders have 57 armor... so it doesn't matter here :p
    Click to expand...

    Uhm...to be honest I don't really care for BiS items for cloth wearers, but for mail (/plate) ones. I'm basically not sure which shoulder item is BiS for hpallys atm and unfortunately I'm not into theorycrafting at all.^^ The only reason why I wear MM is the psychological effect and the nice little 2 at the beginning of my health bar ;)
    If I only knew to what extend armor is influencing my damage taken...
     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    Björke said:
    If I only knew to what extend armor is influencing my damage...
    Click to expand...
    I remember Earl (or someone else, can't remember) doing the math a while ago and deciding that the resil mail/plate boas are better for general survivability.
     
    Yeah, I switched over to the PvP shoulders for the resilience. Just seems pretty even, but I wanna be able to take a beating more than survive a beating.

    Don't forget this in regards to priests:

    Resilience affects the damage taken by your BUBBLE as well as yourself. So the more resilience, the more hits needed to burn through our (currently OP) bubble.

    So a melee hit of 900 unmitigated hit against our 900 bubble would be affected by resilience and be less than 900, and not pop our cocoon of awesomeness.
     
    For resto druid FC BoA shoulders net 30 armor (66 in bear form) , 1 intellect , 3 crit rating , 5 resilience , whats the verdict ?
     
    Thanks Preeztess for the idea with the priest bubble. This brings ESM clearly ahead of MM. On that topic: How does resilience work with flag carrier debuffs? I would think resilience becomes more valuable the more stacks the FC has.

    Yeah but that was when resilence wasnt on the same level as it is now (I assume). Aged Pauldrons of The Five Thunders not sure if those are now better than those Pristine Lightforge Spaulders. Since hs's dmg crits for <400 (usually) and heals are even as noncrits strong enough, I dont see crit as an important stat anymore...
    Click to expand...

    I tried to give a definite answer, but it's difficult. You can compare resilience and stamina at a certain health pool but even than it depends if received damage is healed with spells that don't over-heal. I do feel both light and thunder are superior over MM. In the case light vs thunder:
    The light's 71 armor seem to be about 1,1% physical damage reduction and the 1 resilience about 0,45% all damage reduction. So it really depends on who is attacking you and with what. For example Rogues deal physical but also have poinsons, bleeds and they have find weakness.

    For resto druid FC BoA shoulders net 30 armor (66 in bear form) , 1 intellect , 3 crit rating , 5 resilience , whats the verdict ?
    Click to expand...
    I can't give a based answer on this one but it would say Lasting Feralheart Spaulders do have situations where they are ahead vs Magicians Mantle. The armor and resilience seems to be on par with the Stamina of MM, but when you are bubbled by a priest and your health + bubble is over 2150, resilience wins. Resilience also seems good in combination with Heals over Time. And when you have fc stacks you'll receive less damage with resilience.
     
    Just throwing this out there - going by your math in the beginning - if you are otherwise BiS (have a decent health pool) and receive a single heal, then Sunderseer > MM.

    For instance, if you're a warlock and use your healthstone during a fight, sunderseer becomes without a question better than MM. Considering you'd typically only use your HS when you need to, this would make sunderseer most often BiS.

    Possibly the only fully geared class for which MM would still be considered bis would be a mage who does not receive a heal? Thoughts?

    Also @ Sab - do you mind if I link to this thread in my lock guide?
     
    Bump with a question -

    This came up in chat today and I tried to math (verb!) it out but got some conflicting results.

    For a fully BiS clothie, would the 7 resil from inherited sig outweigh the 12 stam of a second AGM? In other words, if you have access to a second AGM, should you switch to it when sig is on CD? This is also assuming that you'd be using ESM, as this thread shows is the better choice.

    I guess this same question applies to Rune of Perfection, though I'd imagine 7 resil > 4 stam.
     
    taking STA over resi as a healer is hands down retarded

    as a dps, you could consider this, only if you're barely getting any heals
     
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