80 Rogue Help

[Nickolas]

So I'm looking for a bis set up as a sub rogue playing with a frost mage.
My friend insist that I go full cata gear, but according to the bis on twinkinfo you use 4 piece wrathful...
My friend hasn't really twinked before, so I was wondering what you guys thought.
i'm completely new to the bracket as well.

 

[Nesyla]

Well, Fladdap is one of the most deadly rogues i have fighted against in arena, and he is using 4 piece wrath, i have little knowledge on rogues gear at this level since i started mine and gave up after very little as i coulden't be bothered, yet full cata gear seems a not so great idea.

Nonetheless i'm sure Splosion can help you more since he does play with a rogue in 2's.

 

[Splosion]

Depends on the setup. If you run with a mage/decent healer, go 4pc wrathful and basically (almost) full cata offset.As long as you have above 40% crit you're cool (gives 100% crit on ambush). other secondary stats are a preference thing, my partner prefers haste>mastery>crit since he has so much crit already, but that's subject to opinion.

My rogue isn't quite BiS (missing halion bracers + some icc items), but it's close. Since cheat death is really powerful (if you run with a healer), you tend not to need as much survival, unless a lot of CC is going out. Outside of mages/healers, you probably want some more wrathful.

Rogues are strong. They're a decent anti-caster class, and mine can basically kill a healer in a silence/kindey shot combo. However, they are rather soft.

 

[Nickolas]

Thanks for the feedback splosion,
I can already tell im going to like this bracket.
Jumped into a few games today and liked the community.

Some of my guildies told me to favor haste as well.
So I think Ill go 4pc wrathful with off pieces.

 

[Splosion]

He's since changed his mind back to mastery (way more burst in dance), but as I said, preference.

This bracket is quite fun, and way more balanced than the others (imo)

 

[Nickolas]

This bracket is quite fun, and way more balanced than the others (imo)

That I disagree with lol
frost mages are ridiculous.

 

[Taitaih]

This bracket is a burstfest .

Hence all of the seriously high offensive stats with Cata gear. I bet it'll even out in MoP though.

As mage/rogue, as long as you can control and burst your targets, running 4 pc + cata is fine. You'll find out if you need more resil or more damage as you guys play games.

 

[Splosion]

That I disagree with lol
frost mages are ridiculous.

Resistance gear. I don't even notice a mage anymore.

And besides, mages are always OP. everything else is just balanced excluding that 1 class.

 

[Falkor]

This bracket is way more balanced than the others (imo)

Lolwat?

Also resist gear ain't balance. Unless you have arcane/fire and frost resist gear and know what spec an opponent is before fighting them. Not to mention Mage isn't the only imbalanced class at 80

 

[Splosion]

Lolwat?

Also resist gear ain't balance. Unless you have arcane/fire and frost resist gear and know what spec an opponent is before fighting them. Not to mention Mage isn't the only imbalanced class at 80

Ok, so there's three things wrong with the way you interpreted my statement. The first is that I ended it with imo, which (In case you didn't know/understand, it means in my opinion) means that it's my view, not yours.

The second is that You're not comparing this bracket to others. Go ahead and compare it to 70s, 60s, 19s, etc. Those brackets are far more imbalanced than this one is. You'll actually find that most classes are capable of fairly similar burst, with the exception of a few specs (Namely warlock, but there has to be a weakling). Having 6 classes out of 10 (this is an example) "imbalanced" means that, funnily enough, those 6 classes are just as balanced as each other. Burst is not imbalance, burst is bad design.

Finally, I never said anything about resist gear being balance. However, it is an extremely good way of dealing with mages. Given that the three best classes in this bracket are the three best arena classes ingame (mage, rogue and priest), why wouldn't you want to counter them?

So, I'll just step past your attack, and let's continue the discussion on rogues shall we?

 

[Nesyla]

Go ahead and compare it to 70s, 60s, 19s, etc. Those brackets are far more imbalanced than this one is.

Indeed.

 

[Falkor]

Ok, so there's three things wrong with the way you interpreted my statement. The first is that I ended it with imo, which (In case you didn't know/understand, it means in my opinion) means that it's my view, not yours.

ofc i know what that means, however that doesnt make it any less lol worthy, imo

The second is that You're not comparing this bracket to others. Go ahead and compare it to 70s, 60s, 19s, etc. Those brackets are far more imbalanced than this one is. You'll actually find that most classes are capable of fairly similar burst, with the exception of a few specs (Namely warlock, but there has to be a weakling). Having 6 classes out of 10 (this is an example) "imbalanced" means that, funnily enough, those 6 classes are just as balanced as each other. Burst is not imbalance, burst is bad design.

just because 6 classes are imba but roughly equal doesnt make it balanced, it just creates tiers of imba
im interested to see if mop brings real balance though by making pvp gear necessary and or getting rid of mastery on 80s. might make it boring, and i might not even like it, but at least itd be more balanced across the board than it is now

Finally, I never said anything about resist gear being balance. However, it is an extremely good way of dealing with mages. Given that the three best classes in this bracket are the three best arena classes ingame (mage, rogue and priest), why wouldn't you want to counter them?

well you implied that frost resis gear was balance to a mage, or at least thats what i inferred. and FrR is good, but you have to know you'll be fighting a frost mage in arena to get its full use if you get caught w/o it ur boned but if you wear it and theres no mage, or its a diff spec, its pretty much wasted
but having a separate set for one spec of one class isnt really balance, true balance would be being able to stand toe to toe with them in a regular set
and you cant really gear for a spriest (basically no SR) or rogue (physical dmg)

So, I'll just step past your attack, and let's continue the discussion on rogues shall we?

it wasnt an attack, its my opinion that 80 is not balanced. its fun, but not balanced
but back to rogues

 

[Splosion]

ofc i know what that means, however that doesnt make it any less lol worthy, imo

So you're saying my opinion is wrong? How nice.

just because 6 classes are imba but roughly equal doesnt make it balanced, it just creates tiers of imba
im interested to see if mop brings real balance though by making pvp gear necessary and or getting rid of mastery on 80s. might make it boring, and i might not even like it, but at least itd be more balanced across the board than it is now

With 30 different specs ingame, there will always be "tiers". The 80s bracket happens to have them all closer together than all of the others.

well you implied that frost resis gear was balance to a mage, or at least thats what i inferred. and FrR is good, but you have to know you'll be fighting a frost mage in arena to get its full use if you get caught w/o it ur boned but if you wear it and theres no mage, or its a diff spec, its pretty much wasted
but having a separate set for one spec of one class isnt really balance, true balance would be being able to stand toe to toe with them in a regular set
and you cant really gear for a spriest (basically no SR) or rogue (physical dmg)

No, I said resist is how I deal with mages. There is plenty of other ways. WoW is a game of gear, so why wouldn't I try and gear to defeat a particular opponent? It's most of my strength ingame. I can gear to survive a spriest fairly easily too (3 enchants + aura is a lot of DR)

it wasnt an attack, its my opinion that 80 is not balanced. its fun, but not balanced
but back to rogues

It's more balanced than the others are. You've confused burst with balance, sorry.

 

[Falkor]

So you're saying my opinion is wrong? How nice.

no im saying i think its funny/i dont agree with it. you seem to be very butthurt over this, are you french or something by chance...you already thought i was attacking you before & now you seem even more upset. i just happen to disagree, that is all

No, I said resist is how I deal with mages. There is plenty of other ways. WoW is a game of gear, so why wouldn't I try and gear to defeat a particular opponent? It's most of my strength ingame. I can gear to survive a spriest fairly easily too (3 enchants + aura is a lot of DR)

yes resist is how you deal with mages. but youre sidestepping my whole point about not being able to have 3 full resist sets and know which spec youre going against at any given time, if at all (talking mostly about arena here...cuz in BGs you have teammates that can neutralize a mage w/o wearing resist gear, and duels dont matter)
how else are you going to deal with them, other than LoS and bubble. yes denounce helps but even w/o crits they pump out dmg & thats just for hpals
the resist is a nice help in balance, but it doesnt solve any real issues unless you know for sure you'll be fighting a mage, and what spec he is. or a spriest for that matter too

It's more balanced than the others are. You've confused burst with balance, sorry.

mmm i dont entirely agree. 70s was imba, but i never remember the balance being as out of whack as it is at 80. 19s rogues n hunters were annoying, but i played back in the day on a warrior and had a blast. ive played pretty much every bracket in my time in wow and 80s definitely sticks out as one of the most imbalanced. im not upset about it, i enjoy it, im just saying.
and balance and burst go hand in hand imo, not sure why youre making them separate entities. if one or a few classes have a large burst advantage over others, how is that not imbalanced? not even mentioning the cc/surv moves some classes have over others in addition to their sick burst

 

[Splosion]

no im saying i think its funny/i dont agree with it. you seem to be very butthurt over this, are you french or something by chance...you already thought i was attacking you before & now you seem even more upset. i just happen to disagree, that is all

Disagreeing usually means you think I'm wrong, otherwise we wouldn't be disagreeing. Nice touch with the insult, I'm liking it. (Brotip: I'm not french.)

yes resist is how you deal with mages. but youre sidestepping my whole point about not being able to have 3 full resist sets and know which spec youre going against at any given time, if at all (talking mostly about arena here...cuz in BGs you have teammates that can neutralize a mage w/o wearing resist gear, and duels dont matter)
how else are you going to deal with them, other than LoS and bubble. yes denounce helps but even w/o crits they pump out dmg & thats just for hpals
the resist is a nice help in balance, but it doesnt solve any real issues unless you know for sure you'll be fighting a mage, and what spec he is. or a spriest for that matter too

Arcane mages and fire mages can't, don't and won't ever kill me. Why gear for the specs that I don't have any trouble surviving? I'm afraid to say it, but denounce removes any real damage they deal. I can cope with 5k non-crit frostbolts any day.

Spriests don't really kill me either.

mmm i dont entirely agree. 70s was imba, but i never remember the balance being as out of whack as it is at 80. 19s rogues n hunters were annoying, but i played back in the day on a warrior and had a blast. ive played pretty much every bracket in my time in wow and 80s definitely sticks out as one of the most imbalanced. im not upset about it, i enjoy it, im just saying.
and balance and burst go hand in hand imo, not sure why youre making them separate entities. if one or a few classes have a large burst advantage over others, how is that not imbalanced? not even mentioning the cc/surv moves some classes have over others in addition to their sick burst

Have you even played 70s recently? You have tank classes winning games, and mages can global anything. However, compare this to warriors, warlocks, hunters and rets. None of those classes even stands a chance, whereas at 80 they do.

As I said, BURST IS NOT THE SAME AS IMBALANCE. Imbalance means there's 1-2 classes leaps and bounds ahead of ALL of the rest, and there are a large number of classes that just aren't even viable. All classes and specs are viable at 80. There are always going to be some that are slightly better against others. It's balanced, you just don't know what balanced means.