Why twink @ 70...

TheTrueNub

Legend
instead of 74?



I mean you guys must've upgraded to WotLK and/or Cata by now.



No trolling, all my previous twinking experience comes from 19s, never twinked a high-end bracket. And you'd never pit a twinked 15 against a twinked 19, that's a no-brainer.
 
At level 74 secondary stats such as crit, haste, and resilience scale down immensly. I can not remember the scaling of resilience but it makes 74's quite vulnerable. The main reason anyone twinks level 74 is to get abilities that level 70 players can not obtain. Such as wings for a paladin, or cyclone for a druid. These 74 players give up their secondary stats for diffferent spells, although in most situations it is not worth it.
 
um actually being 74 does not make you fake, i went 74 on my bis hunter to gain a **** ton more survivability
 
Varis said:
At level 74 secondary stats such as crit, haste, and resilience scale down immensly. I can not remember the scaling of resilience but it makes 74's quite vulnerable. The main reason anyone twinks level 74 is to get abilities that level 70 players can not obtain. Such as wings for a paladin, or cyclone for a druid. These 74 players give up their secondary stats for diffferent spells, although in most situations it is not worth it.
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threesets said:
um actually being 74 does not make you fake, i went 74 on my bis hunter to gain a **** ton more survivability
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So what's the right answer then? Excluding the few cases where leveling to 74 nets you some cool new powers (pally, druid, warlock[?]) is it better to gain the 4 levels' worth of health/mana or stay at 70 to get more resilience et al.?
 
hunter its worth it on, but say most healer classes its not. for hunter, i have 15% resil, and 20k health and decent ap, with the spirit beats heal, and master's call, however for anything else but say a rettie or a druid its pretty much wortless unless goin for eng gogs or niff
 
To expand on what Varis said, there are three reasons to go past 70:



1) Gear

2) Worthwhile spells and abilities

3) Buff to base abilities and spells



However, the secondary stat scaling really hurts. Specifically, you lose 8% of your stats for every level you go past 70, so 74 yields approximately a 33% loss to secondary stats. Losing the resil alone is a big deal. With that in mind, here are three vague answers to get you started:



1) Level 70 gear is exceptionally strong for most classes and specs. Between the Brutal Gladiator sets you can buy for honor and the T6 and T6.5 pieces you get out of raids, most gear matches or exceeds WotLK gear you can get in Northrend. So with a few exceptions, gear isn't a motivating factor for going above 70 (Nifflevar axes at 71 come to mind).

2) The new spells and abilities you learn at 72 and 74 may or may not be worth your time. Paladins get wings at 72, but shamans get...a totem that reduces the pushback of spells when hit during casting. Woot. :/

3) Some base spells and abilities scale up very nicely.



For example, I went 74 on my resto shaman (link is in my sig) because I got a 25% increase to all my direct healing spells. Note that almost all of my gear is 70 gear. I gemmed resil to partially make up for the resilience loss when going 74, and I'm still significantly squishier than a typical (geared) 70 resto shaman. To me, the loss of survivability was worth the gain in healing throughput.



The best way I found to think of the "go past 70" question is to consider that many brackets gear on a spectrum from survivability to glass cannon. The 10, 60, 70, and 80 brackets offer a third dimension to consider, all with their own scaling above the x0 level. For 70-74, the extremely strong gear at 70 encourages many players to stay there.
 
yes, however for hunters, you gain survivability, and lose 25% crit basically, i see it as evening out
 
have yet to see a single player above level 70 that has any more "survivability" than they would have at 70, the loss of resil is just way to harsh for a damage increase of basically nothing. 74 hunters drop like a 70 hunter and their only viable sec is BM which is retardedly easy to counter. 74 druids are about the same, its pretty hard to cyclone somebody when you get globaled by every class. going above 70 on a rogue is stupid as well, why gimp your already very low survivability for even less for damage that you dont even need. if you see the trend here just fill the blanks for the rest of the classes.
 
backpeddle and bowjob...there ya go, master's call, allows them to kite for that 4 seconds, and the spirit beast heal is like 2k every 2 secs
 
TheTrueNub said:
So what's the right answer then? Excluding the few cases where leveling to 74 nets you some cool new powers (pally, druid, warlock[?]) is it better to gain the 4 levels' worth of health/mana or stay at 70 to get more resilience et al.?
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Right answer...is no right answer. There is no clear advantage for either.



Some people claim that the loss of secondary stats makes 74's weaker. The math really doesn't back it up. Just chardev a twink and change its level to see the stat changeds.



Here is a repost of the math I did in another thread for one of my toons:



The amount of secondary stats is really minimal unless you are stacking a stat like haste or resilience. Then the amount can be significant.



However, if you are going to stack stats such as Str or Int the losses you incur are tiny compared to what you gain.



For example, on my Shaman (was a 70 in BC I had lying around) which I chardeved in her ele set (so will do my math from that though I am talking mostly about resto) has 28.08% crit chance, 8.94% haste, 15100 hp & 27.91% resilience reduction in a generic pvp set. If I take her to 74 I lose 6.48% crit, 2.27 haste, I GAIN about 1200 health, and lose 6.24% resilience.



Then compare that to the fact that Rshamans scale in a way that makes almost all their heals heal about 25% more at 74 (other healers are about 15-20%). Plus I gain 2 talent points for improved shields which increases earthshield healing by 10% for a total of 35%.



Alone that is enough for me to be of the opinion that the toon would be more powerful at 74 than 70. Thats ignoring the spell resist, improved stealth detection, and increased chance to be missed when attacked by 70's.





(not trying to say everyone is better at 74. Just saying the argument about secondary stats doesn't really hold water)
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Really its about what you enjoyed. I took my Resto Shaman to 74 because of its badass scaling an the two talent points gained are very crucial with improved shields. With my druid I did it because druid is much more fun with cyclone (I also think its slightly more durable.....unless you are stacking resil which isn't viable at 74 for most). I also took a priest 74 but regret it greatly since its scaling is poor.



Really just study your class. Stat wise....for most classes its a wash with what they gain canceling out what they lose. The deciding factor is what abilities you gain imo.



I have 6.5 (making one) 70's atm and its about a 50/50 spit and the only one I regret taking 74 is my priest. I want to take my pali 74 for the prot/ret buffs but I enjoy stacking resil too much.
 
You sure about those numbers going from 70 to 74, Wafflecakes? The losses sound too small to me, and they don't match up with what I've seen in WoW armories. Nevertheless, I think your point stands -- there are worthwhile tradeoffs for the degradation of secondary stats when going above 70.
 
Bwappo said:
You sure about those numbers going from 70 to 74, Wafflecakes? The losses sound too small to me, and they don't match up with what I've seen in WoW armories. Nevertheless, I think your point stands -- there are worthwhile tradeoffs for the degradation of secondary stats when going above 70.
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They are accurate via chardev. I am not aware of any errors in their low level calculations, but if there are they may be off.



Keep in mind that those numbers are on a toon stacking int....toons stacking a specific stat like crit will see more significant losses. Really the only way to make a good call is to do some investigating into how classes scale....for me that is almost always the deciding factor....but there are not many good sources for scaling differences at this level. I only know shaman scales very well. On my rshaman 74 it is BY FAR my most powerful healer...and I have all 4.
 
most of the gear that is BIS is also BIS at 74. the gear a 74 will/would wear is mostly 70 gear, hence are above the gear they are wearing and losing stats



you can't compare twinking at 15 vs 19's, because 19's gain gear on quests/drops not useable by 15's and 19's generally will not be wearing level 15 capped gear other than bracers and boots in most cases.



74 hunters gain alot of survivability because at 74 along with detect stealth can see rogues and ferals from far away. they can stop or counter the rogue/ferals before they attempt to do there opener rotation
 
hunters at 74 are far from op, especially when we are rocking 25% crit, unlike the 50% we would have at level 70
 
Vapriest said:
Personally i look down on most who level past 70, unfair advantage over those who make their 70 twinks aimed at fighting other 70 twinks and is rather pathetic imo, inb4 whole point of twinking is being better prepared than others.
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You could pretty much argue about this matter forever. I twink for fun, twinking mainly a way to kill time for me. I don't care about arena ratings and such at 70. Others might find lvling past 70 lame, I don't. I enjoy destroying everything that moves on my 72 ret.
 
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