Why are they not viable?
- Thread starter Lebowski
- Start date
Imnotabelf
Legend
I have to agree with the "skill > spec" unless it comes to huntards.
Geist
Legend
to do noticable dmg, you need you DoTs to tick through. fights wont last 15+ seconds though, because you will be dead within a few globals as soon as the first skillpatch huntards see you
your other option is a 3 sec hardcast (more because of pushback from dmg, pets etc) for ~180dmg, in 3 seconds a huntard/retardin brings you from full HP to nearly dead
all the dmg you'll do in ~10 seconds will be healed away in about 1,5 sec
fear is a 1,7 sec cast and breaks instaly on dmg, so youll either fear or dps a target
pets have the innate resists so they resist fear ~30-50% of the time even with +10 spell pen trinket
when a rogue/mage (or moth pet) locks you out of shadow you're completely screwed
i would argue that Lock is not "viable" because for everything a Lock can do, another class can do it much better while bringing other things to the table as well
Tobinofear
Legend
The most important points imho:
1) A so called "underrated" class/spec is only viable in the hands of a skilled player. There a some extraordinary player's out there prooving this.
2) A lot people call a class/spec not viable before getting huge equip upgrades (e.g. caster/healer benefit extremely from the spellpower push of a BOA weapon)
3) "not viable" =/= being top of the boards
4) "not viable" is arena > pug > premade (nearly everything is "viable" here)
There are a few specs that tend to be really "not viable" at least in a pug even with a skilled player
Cheers
Gattuso
1) A so called "underrated" class/spec is only viable in the hands of a skilled player. There a some extraordinary player's out there prooving this.
2) A lot people call a class/spec not viable before getting huge equip upgrades (e.g. caster/healer benefit extremely from the spellpower push of a BOA weapon)
3) "not viable" =/= being top of the boards
4) "not viable" is arena > pug > premade (nearly everything is "viable" here)
There are a few specs that tend to be really "not viable" at least in a pug even with a skilled player
Cheers
Gattuso
Bizarre
Legend
Voidwalker
Legend
Obviously hasn't played a Warlock. ^^
Again
Skill > spec
And Fun > utility (IE "Another class can do it much better")
This^^
Kipale
Legend
Nothing will change the fact even how good lock you are, hunter will kill you faster with autoshots unless your lucky enough to pull that 300 crit with 10% crit change.
I know what im talking about, i had 24 lock and that pushback is really annyoing when trying to cast 1.7 sec fear.
Geist
Legend
I didnt say playing Lock isnt fun (sometimes), nor did I say people shouldn't roll Warlock
i'm trying to give my honest opinion
just this whole talk about "skill" overcoming certain disadvantages, seems kinda unrealistic/romantic to me
when you are in a PuG (its been pointed out several times in a preformed group pretty much anything goes) on EU you're going up against 4-6+ skillpatch huntards with 1,4-1,7k HP basically every game. There will be priest shielding and palys healing those huntards
this WSG CtA i have yet to see another Horde Warlock other than myself playing
there is a reason 90% of the player base is made up of Huntards and Palys with some Rogs and Priests
HappyFish
Legend
As a Affliction, could you tell me how much damage about your Immolate, Shadow bolt and other Dot spells? (For example: Immolate: 200(instant damage)+100(DOT damage)) ...
Have you tried other talent tree ? such as Destruction Warlock?
I know warlock is not overpower in this bracket, but I am so interested in this class.
Thanks for any information!
Blessings!
Geist
Legend
i had an Orc WL before this one and was running Demo for most of the time, unfortunately the pet has (unlike the hunter ones) zero utility, low survivability, hits for very little and is killed almost instantly most of the time. the +15% STA is quite good though. I found myself running Imp constantly and playing basically like an Affliction spec but with less dmg and more health
I tried Destro once for a few BGs and it sucked, but i had not yet aquired my BoA staff (which makes a difference). Maybe i'll try it one more time.
Imho, Aflliction is the best spec hands down, you are already playing a gimped class, no reason to gimp yourself even further
Anyway, i am not BiS but with my usual gear setup i have 147 Spell Power (with Oil, without Bloodthistle)
(all points are average)
Corruption 288 / 18 sec
BoA 300 / 24 sec
UA 265 / 15sec - 1.5sec cast
BoD / 292 every 15 sec
SB 182 - 3sec cast
Immolation 42 + 155 / 15 sec - 2sec cast
Soulfire 225 - 4sec cast
Arknoodle
Legend
Then tell me, how does one class beat an identically geared person of the same class?
WTB bizr livestream so people can see how to lock skill
Oh and btw, Geist are you a clicker? If so pretty much all your arguments become invalid :/ I apologize :/
Geist
Legend
i dont know what the setup in a typical US BG is (sadly i have 300+ ms ping), but as ive been trying to explain, in EU you're going up against Hunter and Palys, with the odd Priest and Rogue in between
so thats the quasi-standard everything gets measured against, wether one likes it or not
'viable' in this bracket means vailable in a PuG against you run-of-the-mill alliance PuG team
of course you can make (or avoid) mistakes with any class, and you have decisions to make while playing and thus can differentiate between players who make the right decisions and call that 'skill' or whatever, there are good players and bad players with every class/spec
but when people say "skill>class" or "it depends who is playing" or something like that, gives the unrealistic (imho) impression that somehow if you use the right spells in the right order you'll have a chance against every (or even most) classes.
that is not the case.
if you make 0 mistakes whatsoever and are BiS as a lock, a non-BiS alliance hunter can make half a dozen mistakes and still kill you while not coming close to dying once
that means "viable" to me, if it means something else to you (i.e. having fun while playing, or being a helpful addition to the team or something) then every class is in the hands of a somewhat competent player. but that exact same player could play a hunter or paladin (or Priest, Shaman etc) and be even better
Arknoodle
Legend
This is wrong though...
And you still didn't answer my question. Do you point and click? If so like I said all your arguments are invalid because, and I'm not trying to be offensive, but that makes you a sub par pvp player.
Geist
Legend
the bottom bar is bound, the right bar not
btw, i am not saying i'm playing perfect or even near perfect, but thats my experience so far
are you really suggesting a Warlock can beat a Hunter?
Arknoodle
Legend
No I'm not. Because this thread isn't hunter VS warlock.
I'm suggesting that with the right play-style and use of abilities any class is viable because there is an over abundance of players in this bracket that are extremely unskilled.
I walk behind most hunters I come up against on my warrior because they backpeddle so hard. I'm sure you can use similar unskilled players disadvantages against them as a lock.
It's unfortunate that we have to compare everything to hunters because they dominate the bracket, however it should be noted that a skilled hunter can take down any other class.
So instead when I compare to hunters I compare to the middle caste of hunters which are far more common then the elites.
So yes when a bracket is dominated by hunters, 95% of which are very unskilled players, I'm going to stick with skill > spec. Meaning that with the proper play style and understanding of your class and the other classes in the game you will be able to overcome the bumbling fools that run around disengaging uphill, which like I said is about 95% of hunters.
Edit: Btw you should bind your wand. Nothing like an instant 150 damage to finish people off.
I'm suggesting that with the right play-style and use of abilities any class is viable because there is an over abundance of players in this bracket that are extremely unskilled.
I walk behind most hunters I come up against on my warrior because they backpeddle so hard. I'm sure you can use similar unskilled players disadvantages against them as a lock.
It's unfortunate that we have to compare everything to hunters because they dominate the bracket, however it should be noted that a skilled hunter can take down any other class.
So instead when I compare to hunters I compare to the middle caste of hunters which are far more common then the elites.
So yes when a bracket is dominated by hunters, 95% of which are very unskilled players, I'm going to stick with skill > spec. Meaning that with the proper play style and understanding of your class and the other classes in the game you will be able to overcome the bumbling fools that run around disengaging uphill, which like I said is about 95% of hunters.
Edit: Btw you should bind your wand. Nothing like an instant 150 damage to finish people off.
Geist
Legend
i agree with most of your points
however, the thread starter asked "why are those (classes) not viable" (i think he means why you see only very few people playing those), so i was trying to express my frustration while playing f2p warlock
lock has so many skills, so many different situational abilities, but its useless when 2-3 hunters target you simultaneously and you die within 2-3 globals
yes
i am somewhat struggling with the amount of abilities that need a hotkey
in addition to the 12 in the bottom bar i have 4 others (pet attack, pet passive, target next enemy player, target last target)
also, rain of fire has very high dps and i should be using it more
however, the thread starter asked "why are those (classes) not viable" (i think he means why you see only very few people playing those), so i was trying to express my frustration while playing f2p warlock
lock has so many skills, so many different situational abilities, but its useless when 2-3 hunters target you simultaneously and you die within 2-3 globals
yes
i am somewhat struggling with the amount of abilities that need a hotkey
in addition to the 12 in the bottom bar i have 4 others (pet attack, pet passive, target next enemy player, target last target)
also, rain of fire has very high dps and i should be using it more