Grow up.

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saxxon

saxxon
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You're all honestly disillusion if you think that the promotion of Mocha to Moderator did not lead to the entire EU community leaving US ( Nicozy, _Arkant_ )etc, along with Noodle arms ( [MENTION=3992]Karmaz[/MENTION] , Slydurr, ezeron, @auggidin ) etc.) all leaving as well because of all the competition being killed, thats around 20+ twinks who all gave up around the same time, this lead to far less quality games, many members of these guilds have told me personally that it's the sole reason they bailed. Anyone with half a brain can see that..

please tell me how the two are not related, it all had a huge ripple effect and im sure im not the only one who saw this?

If Mocha wanted to do ANYTHING for the bracket he would step down, this would cause so many twink that i know to return...

Im sick of hiding behind a closed curtain, if Mocha wants to talk let him talk here.

inb4 a ban, does it really matter anymore?
 
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[FONT=&quot]Why do we need to make a PM anyway? It's not like Mocha will listen to anything we have to say, he never has.

[FONT=&quot]This discussion is welcome in Skype and private messages but not on forums. [/FONT]

Is it against CoC to call out someone's moderation? [/FONT]

The fact is Mocha is blinded by his own bias opinions about what is what, which is lead to nothing but less drama, less activty and people just giving up on this forum all together.
 
So basically someone's promotion to a forum killed activity and quality of a bracket in a video game? Really?

God..

Yes, he caused the ENTIRE European community to leave the US bracket. which caused the 2 major US guilds to quit on the bracket because the competitive games no longer exist, thats 3 guilds worth of around 40+ twinks, you think that can be detrimental?

Mocha is clinging to an ancient style (credit to [MENTION=3652]Nicozy[/MENTION]) and will not adapt or adjust to the times.
 
So basically someone's promotion to a forum killed activity and quality of a bracket in a video game? Really?

God..

19s have been based on and have lived off the forums/drama/competition since there were battlegroup forums. they are a unique bracket in that sense.
 
It's more than the stubs ban, your mere presence has caused so many good twinks even POSITIVE twinks who didnt troll Slydur, to give up, there was no competition left for them so why would they bother?

Shane literally promoted you because he knew that you being a mod would tick off many of the core players in the bracket that he couldnt be assed dealing with, it had nothing to do with helping the bracket, nothing to do with promoting a competitive and friendly atmosphere, it was to do a dirty job that he couldn't be fucked dealing with himself.

You just admitted it yourself you are here to MODERATE not to provide any help towards activity in anyway.

ENKtEtf.png
 
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s.

Edit: Worried about people quitting? I wonder how many players quit at the result of being GY farmed.

Didn't you join a guild that was involved with as you call it ''gy farming''? o no sorry I think I have the wrong person...
 
Didn't you join a guild that was involved with as you call it ''gy farming''? o no sorry I think I have the wrong person...
I FCd for a few premades so their lined up premades could happen.

In pugs I capped with speed pots and didn't spend a second in the GY.
Are you kidding me?



Edit: I can't even...
 
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I FCd for a few premades so their lined up premades could happen.

In pugs I capped with speed pots and didn't spend a second in the GY.
Are you kidding me?

Well, you dis the guild about what they're were doing to the bracket for years and then you join the guild. Fcing for premades or not you look like a hypocrite.
 
Regardless of how anyone feels about anyone's moderating, how exactly does a single moderator in a third-party forum kill a bracket? If you don't like his style, just ignore him and go organize stuff on other forums or skype or etc. Or did I miss the history thread where Mocha was originally the GM of the guild containing all 19s in the world, and was universally loved until he turned to evil?

Even if that were the case, why would you even let a single person kill your own bracket? If someone tried to do that to my community, I wouldn't just say "well, guess we're screwed now." and give up.
 
You're all honestly disillusion if you think that the promotion of Mocha to Moderator did not lead to the entire EU community leaving US ( Nicozy, _Arkant_ )etc, along with Noodle arms ( Karmaz , Slydurr, ezeron, @auggidin ) etc.) all leaving as well because of all the competition being killed, thats around 20+ twinks who all gave up around the same time, this lead to far less quality games, many members of these guilds have told me personally that it's the sole reason they bailed. Anyone with half a brain can see that..

please tell me how the two are not related, it all had a huge ripple effect and im sure im not the only one who saw this?

If Mocha wanted to do ANYTHING for the bracket he would step down, this would cause so many twink that i know to return...

Im sick of hiding behind a closed curtain, if Mocha wants to talk let him talk here.

inb4 a ban, does it really matter anymore?

Regardless of how anyone feels about anyone's moderating, how exactly does a single moderator in a third-party forum kill a bracket? If you don't like his style, just ignore him and go organize stuff on other forums or skype or etc. Or did I miss the history thread where Mocha was originally the GM of the guild containing all 19s in the world, and was universally loved until he turned to evil?

Even if that were the case, why would you even let a single person kill your own bracket? If someone tried to do that to my community, I wouldn't just say "well, guess we're screwed now." and give up.
Let me break it down for you.

The forums were a lovely place, people talked, argued, there was good banter and the competition flourished from it. We had an amazing mod named Sneaky (bless his soul) who was not only respected by many of the members of the community, was lenient and knew how to keep threads open, was never out right hated prior to or after becoming a mod, was adored by EU and US alike, actually played in warsong daily, did arena and was fully immersed in the community, accepted the community as it was never tried to force his own ideals upon it and let it grow organically.

When the tragic events of Sneakys death occurred there was a huge hole in the bracket, there was even a walking funeral of a full raid group and some in his honor.

At this point the forums got slightly out of hand, the bracket itself was fine and games were still competitive and very active as we had a ton of new European players making the games far more interesting and competitive than we had seen before.

Unfortunately most of the Euros did not know when to draw the line, Mocha would create large threads complaining about GY farming and the state of the bracket (even though only containment was occurring at this time not GY farming). Mocha continuously complained about this even, claiming it was detrimental to new players joining the bracket, even though it produced some of the most competitive games we have ever seen in pug history for 19s, as well as producing quality new members that were willing to adjust to the play style @cogbrew.

Rather than adapt Mocha is constantly making absurd posts regarding the need for an O and D, he could not grasp the mid strat concept in any way or maybe just flat out disliked it.

The Euros and the more competitive players in the US scene were very very sick of the crap he was spewing, as Mochas reluctance to change was very apparent from the start.

After awhile the forums got slightly out of hand, and Shane himself was in no mood to deal with it, Silin was around but her ability to moderate only stretched so far.

So Shane, sick and tired of the way the 19 community handled it self (competitive banter, trash talk and egos), appointed a mod that only a few months ago he had stated was "to volatile and man strating" to do his dirty work, as he knew that this Mod was not respected liked or considered positive in any way to anyone in community, and would be able to throw out bans willy nilly to the more higher ranking players in the bracket.

The volatile comment.
ENKtEtf.png


This promotion frustrated many of the competitive players in the bracket, and many of the European players (whos English skills were not the best) were banned for not only having "Poor english" but other tedious reasons like that. Around 10-20 Core US players (You have to understand these are people who que EVERYDAY) were also shocked that [MENTION=5141]Shane[/MENTION] could promote someone to mod purely out of spite for a bracket forum section.

With the EU players being kicked from the forums, and a ton of the core US members being very upset over a promotion merely to mandate control in a World of Warcraft forum, 19s took a heavy blow, as Tough Love and the guild Noodle arms both effectively folded from the bracket, moving to end game, 39, etc. From there on competition dropped, games became stagnant and packed with rogues.

Whether Mocha wants to admit it or not his promotion did have a highly detrimental effect on the bracket, and in no way did his promotion have any single positive impact.

Thats the story. Enjoy.
 
What is sad is that people would quit doing something they enjoyed because of someone else. What is even sadder is that they quit over something that DID NOT AFFECT THEM IN GAME! Pure arrogance right there, im just calling a spade a spade.
 
Reminds me of that story where the 12 year old does something wrong then completely ignores that fact when he puts up an argument to his mother.
 
<snip>

This promotion frustrated many of the competitive players in the bracket, and many of the European players (whos English skills were not the best) were banned for not only having "Poor english" but other tedious reasons like that. Around 10-20 Core US players (You have to understand these are people who que EVERYDAY) were also shocked that [MENTION=5141]Shane[/MENTION] could promote someone to mod purely out of spite for a bracket forum section.

With the EU players being kicked from the forums, and a ton of the core US members being very upset over a promotion merely to mandate control in a World of Warcraft forum, 19s took a heavy blow, as Tough Love and the guild Noodle arms both effectively folded from the bracket, moving to end game, 39, etc. From there on competition dropped, games became stagnant and packed with rogues.

Whether Mocha wants to admit it or not his promotion did have a highly detrimental effect on the bracket, and in no way did his promotion have any single positive impact.

Thats the story. Enjoy.

I've asked a few times about how this could have happened. Thank you for your help. =)

What is sad is that people would quit doing something they enjoyed because of someone else. What is even sadder is that they quit over something that DID NOT AFFECT THEM IN GAME! Pure arrogance right there, im just calling a spade a spade.

I wouldn't call it arrogance. Communities can be depressingly fragile things, especially on the internet. But I agree that it's disappointing when people do give up on a community. I've done that before, and I still feel guilty about it. And I also felt like I let the trolls win.

The lesson, imho, is to not let your fun community be dependent on any one person, site, or medium of communication. Have back up plans so that you can work around obstacles that you may not anticipate appearing.

Oh, and while I still think GY farming (and containment to a lesser degree) is going to discourage new blood from showing up, Blizzard's change to the GY platform makes it pretty much the best strategy to win. There's very little a community can do about that. =/
 
I have not voiced my opinion on 19s on the forums for quite some time as my main focus has been elsewhere... yet this is my home bracket where i grew up playing wow (literally half my life) and i feel very connected to it through good times or bad, and would like to share my thoughts as i feel it offers a slightly different viewpoint (or middle ground).

It is difficult to build a tower when you lack the materials to make it's base. Difficult....NOT IMPOSSIBLE! (explanation..)

19s has been/will always be the bracket for those who embrace the spirit of competition. Whether it be in the gulch repping your guild banner, duking it out in the arena to claim a title, or setting the atmosphere on the forums for head-to-head guild rivalries, 19s live and die off the need to compete. My favorite memories from this bracket have been in these heat of the moment competitions between player groups, whether it be my premades in Laughing Skull FTW (where i grew up as a player/person) from the end of Cataclysm versus tRain Cow/Lethal Synergy/Noodle Arms, or playing along side my good friends Livingforce/Leeroy and being shutdown in final round versus Vianco/Nettiebay/Yowza in DA's 3v3 tournament, and last but not least the 5.3 premade scene this last summer where I had a fucking blast playing with my guild mates from Against the World vs the best competition the bracket has seen premade/pug wise since wrath (arguably).

Do I win every time I play? No of course not, but that's what keeps people here.... the drive to improve... on an individual level, a team level, and on a community level. Whether or not everyone likes each other DOESN'T MATTER. That is not what drives this bracket! IN FACT, I would argue the fact that people having opposite opinions and gameplays is what keeps this bracket Healthy and Alive.... not everyone all following the same path to shoot hoops at the YMCA gym.

So where did this go.... this element that seems to be missing to have healthy games once again? The opposition is here, clearly as the forums have shown for the past few months based on different threads/conflicting viewpoints. Most of us are still lurking around just on different endeavors. When did the ball drop? So i go back to my statement I made earlier in my post...

It is difficult to build a tower when you lack the materials to make it's base. Difficult....NOT IMPOSSIBLE!

In my opinion, everyone left the court when the ball was dropped in the upcoming weeks of 5.4 (mid/end of July) when the announcement of all enchants becoming available at any level was made loud and clear within the community via forums,games, sites etc... Frankly as i remember before the patch hit there was plenty of negative banter of the topic, and i will openly admit I was one of those people that was not looking forward to these enchants. Why? It significantly increased the sporadic factor of burst in the bracket on a monumental level, so much so that it grants an individual/class the potential power to turn a game all by themselves in the matter of globals. This is on an individual level.... so let's take a look at a pug/premade level.

If one person can have such a drastic impact on a game, how much impact would a 5 man group have on a game? This was displayed in the months after the patch hit after Horde more often than not dominated the Alliance in pug games... Now let's consider a few things.
A) At this point when 5.4 had already hit, the negative banter of the upcoming patch already shied (shys in past...? maybe it exists :O) away a significant player base from queuing just from the bad rep the enchants received before the patch.

B) All of the dominate guilds in the bracket had moved to horde, which when looking at a 5.3 perspective makes a lot of sense as overall horde racials are much better for premades than alliance, but when pugs tried to pick up after the patch left no real opposition or force to combat these guilds when they decided to group queue into pugs. Is this any specific guilds fault? No, this is a collective problem that just about every guild fell into due to the fact that premades can be queued via Wargames and racials were stronger horde etc....

C) Yes the burst was higher.... significantly.... but the real reason i remember this being an issue was due to class comps/lack of guilds on alliance.

And at the end of the day, it is tough to get premades going when you can't get pugs.

Now... as my friend Nicozy showed me quite a few months ago... premades are definitely possible to continue happening in 5.4, as EU had several premades in 5.4 that i feel went under the radar to a lot of members of the community that were not looking for it. They adjusted the rules to compensate for the changes, and the games were competitive!

Big Picture.... 5.4.2 is ready for our community to have premades and our community thriving once again, but are we ready to meet the demands it asks of us as a whole?

Let's start from the bottom up.... Let's get us some guilds going once again on both factions, call out your friends, dust off your skype list and click those long lost colorful names on TI and spread the news!
I'm frankly getting bored of 20s... and I miss you guys, (you can decide homo or no homo) and all the shit talk that comes from 19s. It is a bracket where survival of the fittest and long term friendships are made and sustained., if it wasn't for 19 twinking, frankly i would not be playing wow! So let's get the ball rollin!

-HB
 
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Where do the fake suicide threads fit into this "19 community"? Also, from your own posts in this thread, it looks like the Euros caused problems, and then when they faced the music for it, they took their ball and went home. Which, in and of itself, sounds like the mature thing to do, for a 5 year old....
 
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