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Weapons and how scaling works

Discussion in 'General WoW' started by Bestworld, Sep 8, 2017.

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  1. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    Some of you who played classes that mained 1-handed weapons, such as rogues, may know that Replica Blood Guard's Cleaver, and the alliance counter-part, Replica Lion's Fang, were 2nd BiS in instanced PvP next to the unobtainable Sunstrider Axe.

    With 7.3 these lvl 1 epic weapons are now BiS in instanced PvP due to Sunstrider Axe being nerfed with the normalization of weapon speeds. But why is that exactly? The way scaling essentially works is that it takes into account for weapon speed and damage, but there is another factor. Rarity. Since the normalization of weapon speeds, the weapon speed factor is highly irrelevant now, since every dagger has the same speed, every sword, axe, mace has the same speed etc. That means rarity becomes the most important scaling factor at this point. The scaling of rarity goes by the same logic as one would assume.

    Orange>Purple>BoA>Blue>Green>White>Grey.

    Legendary obviously being the rarest of them all, so it scales the highest. This means that BiS weapons for level 60s are the obtainable legendaries for level 60s, and same logic for 70s.

    At a lower level (mainly 19 & 29), this means that the earlier mentioned replica weapons are bis, as well as the Miniature Winter Veil Tree when it comes to daggers, and Replica Staff of Guldan in terms of 2-handers.

    Thanks to @Bubbie and @Outplayed for discussions on the topic, as well as in-game tests. The initial find/idea was sparked by @Bubbie to my knowledge and @Outplayed had similar theories.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
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  2. Outplayed

    Outplayed Grandfathered

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    another thing is boa wep had more damage than a blue or green bg crate wep with same speed at least on a 29 rogue haven't tested it on anything else yet so it might be even smaller of a difference if boa is close or even equal to what the epics scale to
     
  3. OP
    Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    Safe to assume it would be the same at 19 at least.

    Maybe with the exception of 34 ilvl invasion weaps. Would have to test that.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2017 ---
    Bump, updated the scaling info.

    BoA>blue>[...]
     
  4. Taofight

    Taofight Member

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    Cool info. That explains some things. How did the tests go?

    Did they see a change in tooltip damage or only a change in damage when looking at damage log averages? Does it only apply to weapons or other slots, like is deadman's hand bis?
     
  5. FrozenWill

    FrozenWill Veteran

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    Quick question: I have a level 19 enhancement shaman with the ilvl 1 purple cleaver mainhand, and ilvl 29 invasion axe offhand. Would the BOA Mace Ilvl 24 be better in offhand for instance pvp? Because I don't see a difference in tooltip damage between the two. Thanks!
     
  6. Taofight

    Taofight Member

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    I searched every bag and bank of mine and could not fine my darn Replica Lions Fang :(

    I just tested if this applies to wands for green vs blue difference and there was no tooltip difference in healing on my priest.
     
  7. Leek

    Leek Veteran

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    At 20s the arcanite reaper also has noticeable damage increase to the bg crate axe even with the speed normalisation
     
  8. Воришго

    Воришго Member

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    So ilvl 24 BoA weapon better than 34 blue (with same weapon speed)?
     
  9. Wil

    Wil Member

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    Does this same logic apply to gear? Does epic gear scale higher?
     
  10. icehawk

    icehawk Member

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    I wouldn't mind seeing if it is actual damage increase or just a tooltip issue. I did some bg's on my Warrior and noticed the loom does show higher damage, but actual Recount numbers showed almost identical averages between weapons.
    I haven't done enough bg's to confirm this though. I'll try and keep an eye on it and check my Recount records to see if it actually is making a difference.
     
  11. Chainz

    Chainz 23

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    No, it doesn't since the rarity of the weapon only applies to ur tooltip dmg and nothing else but that.
     
  12. Taofight

    Taofight Member

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    I would help you test this if you ever feel like it. Gateboss#1251. We could que into arena war games. I have two accounts I can use so we would only need one more person. In addition I am super curious what is up with my feral druid's shred ability that the tooltip says 1,200 damage but it only hits for 400 in a bg.
     
  13. Wil

    Wil Member

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    Yeah i'd be down to test some stuff. wilferal#11471. In terms of shred it's always hit low in ipvp.
     
  14. OP
    Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    We looked at tooltip changes and did a damage comparison with combat logs.

    The benifits of rarity only applies to weapons.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2017 ---
    No, this logic only applies to weapons. For gear, just go with appropriate armor type and ilvl.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017 ---
    Tooltips are calculated from your main-hand, unless you have a spell that is specifically used for off-hand. With mutilate using both, it still uses mainhand as its tooltip calculation. So swapping off-hand wouldn't necessarily change tooltips. Best way to see the difference between your 29 ilvl blue and BoA is to test it in combat. I still use my ilvl 34 blues in off-hand for swag, because it barely matters at all.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017 ---
    Wands are a mystery. Their stat-modifier is completely fucked. Do you have the addon "DejaCharacterStats"? It breaks stat-numbers into decimals so that you can see even the slightest change. Also, try to compare their "shoot" damage.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017 ---
    Yes, sadly.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017 ---
    The difference is so slight, that you will need a sizable amount of comparable data to make notice. It's not like 1 or the other will make your damage skyrocket, but the difference is there.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017 ---
    Sorry for all the late answers, but I haven't been able to visit this site in ages for some reason. Perma DNS error message.
     
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