Twink Guides <Horde Side Focused>

Discussion in '49s (Vanilla)' started by Jh2125, Jan 29, 2020.

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  1. Jh2125

    Jh2125 Member

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    These are the guides I personally put together. They were directed to the Horde side. So for certain that are Horde only, you will need to do your own research to find an alternative or use one of the alternatives I have listed. I wanted to post these to help everyone in the community. Hope you guys enjoy and Happy Hunting all!

    Feral:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10yOaQOPnSmIEaYTl5i8B16eE2tstRyNwJONwnQx8zJc/edit?usp=sharing

    Druid FC:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xrAqqdrD1kFyLvIBVbK37mE5m82f75POK6qRmpAIKpc/edit?usp=sharing

    Balance/Resto Druid:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k6RwaQhxKCB7efCpYJe9_lJxBg-WAphcW0pnf4vYmoE/edit?usp=sharing

    Hunter:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14O2YZ8WTMqC8yuIRwc9ccMn_8npPuGFg60WPRwqWwE0/edit?usp=sharing

    Warrior:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hEHE8ObsxFdkyeS4Wq1eNSHxCl8HolSRRm1vUataiSg/edit?usp=sharing

    Rogue:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aWPXQxHLm9DQRMBagG57RaN5u6vLj55pPbNST_fSmhs/edit?usp=sharing

    Warlock:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HFbt6Yqwtt2Iv502N5IjYQjIvk2egDZ00M1P8ShdieE/edit?usp=sharing

    Priest:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dY3foYVXOLxH8uZwmK3ldOS7yWQJ1WHqr7Y_2XRPaII/edit?usp=sharing

    Mage:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B0IC1228F0C4iQtXSRHTJAlwGSuCkz-zO5L3YDYlBBY/edit?usp=sharing

    Elemental/Resto Sham:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bweeyzUbDw1ypo1YJ7iDpHduHynTZaA6Y94Ng9mopFw/edit?usp=sharing

    Enhance Sham:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VPQsM8FRprTrbKDGmSCKXRhMjodOzMqV7odIgFCJCMM/edit?usp=sharing

    Hpal:
    https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/nitivRXZhPCMgrSwqHWTmy

    Ret:
    https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/bE3F59ggfyFrxjNLLBx5WZ

    This is my interpretation of Best in Slot. There are many alternatives listed, but I still suggest you do your own research as well. Hope these help, and please reach out if you have any questions.

    Best Regards
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  2. Eagles

    Eagles Veteran

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    curious about orc enh shaman specifically, does the weapon skill racial really matter in pvp? the benefit is extremely low at 60 but i'm not sure how that translates to 49. does the orc racial really make enough of a difference to go Cleaver over Soulkeeper?
     
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    Jh2125

    Jh2125 Member

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    From what I was able to dig up, and I'm finding many conflicting answers. 5 weapon skill would equal +.2% against missing, dodges, parry, and crit. So maybe not as effective if to be true. Now I've found another post claiming 1% more hit chance and .2% more crit. Which is what I originally assumed to be true. Let me investigate a bit more.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 13, 2020 ---
    Really happy you brought this up brotha!

    I reached out in the 49 community discord and it seems that the value would be right as far as the .2% across the board, AND only works outside of bgs. Which in that case, not useful. I don't believe it is even substantial enough to choose just because of the racial. Executioner Cleaver is still a very solid alternate due to hit, and I believe to still be a better option than Kang. However, I believe Soulkeeper is the 'best' option.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
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  4. Eagles

    Eagles Veteran

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    thanks for the response and the guides in general! still leveling my shaman and have both weapons already so at the very least Cleaver will be good for the leveling process.

    i'll probably try them both out and see how much the %hit on the weapon makes a difference - especially if i can't get the princess ring to drop. Soulkeeper would also free up an extra talent point which while not really a big deal is something at least.
     
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    Jh2125

    Jh2125 Member

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    No worries man! I am glad you have found them useful.

    You should definitely be able to get the blackstone ring. There is a spot you can stand where the Hydras are, and still be able to get loot off princess. This gives you the ability to have a lvl 60 just run straight to princess and kill only princess.

    Most servers have a seller that sells the ring for only 20g. Its super easy to do, and relatively quick as well.

    The issues of being 2% hit vs 3% hit doesn't seem great, but if you compare a 10 second string of dps; depending on RNG, it would only take 1 miss to be more favorable to the hit. It does come down to a lot of RNG though. Who knows. A person with 2% hit could literally go an entire game without missing. Incredibly doubtful anyone ever sees luck like that, but if the stars align it is possible.

    By the way, are you US or EU and what server?
     
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  6. Eagles

    Eagles Veteran

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    should be but when making a 19 hunter i had 30 runs before i gave up on getting the blackened defias chest and just wanted to play!

    i'm USEast on Herod.
     
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  7. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Nice resource you've put together there. I've only looked at the Hunter guide so far and it covers most of the bases but I have a few questions.

    First though, about +Weapon Skill. The math is essentially correct, +5 will increase your chance to Hit and Crit by .2% each, as well as reducing enemy Dodge/Block/Parry by .2% each. However the idea that it doesn't work in Battlegrounds is a misconception. You can plainly see it affect your stats when in BGs, I've maxed all weapon skills for instance on my Orc Hunter and when holding an axe my Crit goes up over other weapons.

    There's an old Wowhead post by someone from Blizzard that has been misinterpreted and spread around and I believe it's the source of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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    Jh2125

    Jh2125 Member

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    Thank you so much man. Took a lot of time to put them all together.

    Great to hear weapon skill does in-fact work in battlegrounds. Any way you could show screenshots? I would love to share that in the community discord. There was a lot of arguing back and forth on whether it did or didn't.

    So is it .2% = 5 weapon skill, and 1 weapon skill = .04%? So the legs I chose for hunter would be the +4, and if you went troll an added 5 bow weapon skill; equaling a total of 9 Bow Weapon Skill! 9 Bow skill would be adding .36% hit, avoidance of dodge, block, parry, and .36% crit.
    This might put my weapon skill back on the map!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  9. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Here's the .2 increase in Crit visible for melee vs ranged.
     

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  10. OP
    Jh2125

    Jh2125 Member

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    Thank you for this!
     
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  11. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    I like Weapon Skill for sure, but it should be noted that it's the least useful for Hunters. Enemies can't Dodge/Parry/Block your ranged attacks, so you really only get the Crit/Hit bonus. I don't think it's worth taking those +Bow pants over Searingscale Leggings for instance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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    Jh2125

    Jh2125 Member

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    I do agree, and personally always lean towards a balanced set over glass cannon. However, I am happy to know that it does work in battlegrounds.
     
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  13. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Here's my take on Survival talents. You really need to put more focus on traps, it's the main thing Survival brings to the table. With Counterattack, wasting Mana to spam WC is pointless - Counterattack can't be evaded and is sure to come up vs most Melee. Entrapment + Clever Traps is so broken it's not even funny. Just when enemies think they are clear of your Frost trap, it comes back and immobilizes them again, meanwhile you've already got another Frost trap triggered for massive area denial. You can get as many as three live at once.

    Wyvern Sting is actually crazy good and Aimed Shot is pretty terrible so for me it's a no-brainer sticking 31 pts in SV.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 17, 2020 ---
    This would be my Marksman talent build. First let's talk about the last 9 points; always pick up Humanoid Slaying if you can, it's pretty much the highest damage increase you can get per point. Imp Hawk, although situational, is pretty slick, and there's nothing else worth grabbing on the lowest teir. The last point is definitely worth putting into Imp Revive Pet, it's one of the only things that can slow you down in a BG and there's not anything else worth dumping one point in. Alternatively, you could dump all 9 points in SV and pick up Entrapment and/or Savage Strikes.

    MM tree itself is very straightforward although you don't want to take Imp Arcane over Efficiency. Reason being that Arcane Shot is already very expensive Mana wise and it's on a short CD as is. Lowering the CD means that in order to actually utilize the talent you should be firing Arcane Shot all the time, which is a good way to go oom quickly. Efficiency is going to let you fire more shots in the long run and although fairly minor, it's the best spot to burn points in MM.

    I'm not going to cover BM because I think it's terrible.
     
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  14. Eagles

    Eagles Veteran

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    i'm almost positive weapon skill has no effect in pvp, i doubt the stats addon accounts for in and out of BGs or when attacking a player vs a mob as there is nothing on the stat sheet for it. you can go in to a BG using a weapon skill of 1 and still hit all enemy players as you would with a max skill weapon.

    taken from wowhead:

    Effects Against Players (PvP)
    Weapon skills are maxed in PvP combat, so leveling a weapon skill for PvP is relatively unimportant. When attacking an enemy player, your weapon skill will always be considered to be your level times 5 (X*5), and your target's Defense will always be treated as their level times 5 (X*5) before any Defense rating from your target's gear is taken into account.

    While weapon skill does not affect your chance to hit enemy players in battlegrounds, it still affects your hit chance against enemy players in world PvP or duels.

    based on this and the fact that you can use a 1 weapon skill just fine and the above i think it's safe to assume that weapon skill is completely normalized, including racial bonuses. i'm sure the wowhead article would include it if it worked in PVP as it did for +defense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
  15. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Ok, don't believe your lying eyes. That is the exact article that people have misunderstood for years now. The section about PvP is saying that your current weapon skill doesn't matter and is maxed for PvP, but that section doesn't discuss any skill bonuses at all.

    If you want to argue that because it isn't discussed it means skill bonus has no effect in PvP, I would just say that if true it would be even weirder not to give that specific detail in the PvP section.

    In otherwords there's two different mechanics at work here, current skill and bonus skill. That article doesn't even mention bonus skill in the PvP section because it doesn't cover it (unfortunately).
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020 at 12:54 AM
  16. Dramatized

    Dramatized Member

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    this is exactly how I've understood it for some time now, ty
     
  17. Eagles

    Eagles Veteran

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    it's very easy to test if the stat sheet is wrong, just unequip your weapon (assuming you haven't skill up unarmed) and see what the miss-chance says. if you REALLY wanted to test *that* aspect then you could try to go punch a couple people and see how many times you actually miss. once we know that it's wrong on that it's safe to assume it does not handle that calculation correctly at all. i use Extended Character Stats and just personally went in to a BG and tested it.

    it also DOES talk about skill bonuses, defense. if anything else, like weapon skill, also affected pvp it's safe to assume they would include that as well. in the article about hit in pvp. it would make no sense at all to talk about PVP weapon skill in an article about weapon skill and just not mention that weapon skill does work in BGs (it does affect WPVP/duels).

    if you want to trust an addon we can easily prove is inaccurate over WoWWiki/wowhead then i suppose we can just agree to disagree.
     
  18. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    The add-on isn't why I believe bonus skill works, but OP asked for an SS so I provided it.
     
  19. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Oh yeah one last comment on the Hunter guide. Boar. You don't have any piggies mentioned in the pet section, when boar is actually all you should list lol. I think there's a lvl 48 pig you can get.
     
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    Jh2125

    Jh2125 Member

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    I do really like boar and will definitely add that. I personally used board to lvl 55 and that charge is clutch. Everyone goes for the cat due to the attack speed for casters and such, but the charge is quite useful.
     
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