Toxicity

Quack

Guest
Over the past few weeks especially people have been blacklisted from plebmades/real id premades because they're toxic. I'm sometimes unsure what is considered Toxicity especially in this day and age.

From what I've been told calling someone a bad player or using different terms to express that is considered Toxicity.
If someone is to /afk a game because their team is bad that is also considered Toxicity.
If someone refuses to play with another member because they think they're bad or just dislike them i guess that is also Toxicity.
To exploit/hack in a game is also considered being Toxic.

In my personal opinion. Toxicity comes in different forms. I for one have called a million players awful every time they've messed up including good friends of mine such as @Iild - I've called him every name you can think of but I still talk to this guy on a daily basis no problem. I could list 100's of other players that have messed up and I am "toxic" towards them. At some point I broke a keyboard playing RBG because I messed up badly and I kick myself more about it because I've a certain standard for every player/ myself. So it's not like I don't admit to making mistakes I do.

The " real " twinks don't take this toxicity to heart.
Someone calls you, bad, the worst player in the world etc there is a few ways to Handle it.
- Do your very best to understand what they're saying, understand they're heated because its a spur of the moment thing and read between the lines of rage to hear what they're really trying to say.
- Wait for them to calm down and ask them then what you did to mess up and try to fix it that way.
- Call them even worse and flame them 200x harder and ignore everything they said when lowkey you know they're right.
- Deafen.
- Leave the group tell everyone the games aren't fun and discourage multiple people from playing.
- Just don't respond.
There is probably a few others ways but these are ones I'm thinking of right now at this moment.
Pre WoD when I lacked a lot of knowledge about Warsong Gulch I got flamed a lot for throwing games by multiple people, even some people I talk to today such as Ben Tilley. I never really cried a whole lot about it unless I thought they/he was in the wrong. I usually just try-harded to prove them wrong the next game. I feel like a lot of twinks from my period of time did that also.
I feel like nowadays, in the words of livingforce people are "carebears" and because of that we don't invite the "toxic" players that would provide a competitive atmosphere which results in mediocre games.

In my opinion you should never take to heart the flame, but you should note the criticism.
If you know you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't care.
If you know you did something wrong fix it.
I also think people need to stop taking the words of people over the internet so seriously and making a big issue about it.

That's my opinion on Toxicity, whats yours?
 
That’s a thumps up from me
[doublepost=1525448928,1525448592][/doublepost]Only kind of toxicity I don’t like is someone who flames a player but doesn’t provide an explanation to them on how they could have done better or not fucked up in that situation.


But I’m not sure if they should be blacklisted or not - maybe if they’re just ruining the vibe of any team they’re on and it’s a consensus agreement rather than one person’s choice.
 
Vet said:
That’s a thumps up from me
[doublepost=1525448928,1525448592][/doublepost]Only kind of toxicity I don’t like is someone who flames a player but doesn’t provide an explanation to them on how they could have done better or not fucked up in that situation.
Click to expand...
I agree it should have some form of context to back it up so that people can learn from it
 
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There's playful banter, bad manners, and then there's just plain toxicity.

Playful banter is teasing your friends, guildmates, teammates, etc; thus, it's usually not that big of a deal.

Bad manners is typical poor gaming behavior, which most of us condone and take part in. I would honestly bunch a lot of things you categorized as toxic in this area; for instance, afking and refusing to play with others.

I consider toxic individuals to be harassers. These people are usually narcissists, whiners, and poor sports. They always have to stir up drama and make a big deal about everything.

The decision to blacklist toxic people is understandable to me. The qualities I described as toxic are what led to the reformation of a lot of teams that I've been a part of in my time playing. Regardless of how good the player is, it can definitely be destructive to the team atmosphere and there's always someone just as good that is willing to be a team player.
 
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Zeiren said:
I consider toxic individuals to be harassers. These people are usually narcissists, whiners, and poor sports. They always have to stir up drama and make a big deal about everything.
Click to expand...
idk anyone who does this not gonna lie
 
In my opinion Toxicity is something not what you've said, that's just ''flaming'' really.

Toxicity in my opinion(Especially on WoW) is more of the rude stuff instead of calling someone bad, terrible, shit.

My experiences on toxicity:

Being kicked out of games of WSG in WoD.
Being kicked out Wargames for trying to improve.
Being Ddosed whilst facing another team in WoD.

Ofcourse I've have my toxic moments, which is not even remotely normal to this day to players.

But my opinion on this whole thing is basically that most players do take things to heart, as said above I do 2 of the things you stated:"
I leave the discord/grp/call whatever
I mess around with them for a bit and then peace it
But the toxicity is way less, although I do still get flamed etc etc. It's just nothing to take to heart really, and most of the things some of the people have said to me were helpful tips, even though told to me rudely. It has helped me to improve some of the things I were bad at in the past.

The real toxic people are the people who actually harass one another, the people who would do anything to ruin someone's day/and or doing terrible things like leaking socials, or even hitting them offline, or anything terrible you could think of.

*Sorry for the retarded typing, I am on my phone.*
 
Quack said:
Over the past few weeks especially people have been blacklisted from plebmades/real id premades because they're toxic. I'm sometimes unsure what is considered Toxicity especially in this day and age.

From what I've been told calling someone a bad player or using different terms to express that is considered Toxicity.
If someone is to /afk a game because their team is bad that is also considered Toxicity.
If someone refuses to play with another member because they think they're bad or just dislike them i guess that is also Toxicity.
To exploit/hack in a game is also considered being Toxic.

In my personal opinion. Toxicity comes in different forms. I for one have called a million players awful every time they've messed up including good friends of mine such as @Iild - I've called him every name you can think of but I still talk to this guy on a daily basis no problem. I could list 100's of other players that have messed up and I am "toxic" towards them. At some point I broke a keyboard playing RBG because I messed up badly and I kick myself more about it because I've a certain standard for every player/ myself. So it's not like I don't admit to making mistakes I do.

The " real " twinks don't take this toxicity to heart.
Someone calls you, bad, the worst player in the world etc there is a few ways to Handle it.
- Do your very best to understand what they're saying, understand they're heated because its a spur of the moment thing and read between the lines of rage to hear what they're really trying to say.
- Wait for them to calm down and ask them then what you did to mess up and try to fix it that way.
- Call them even worse and flame them 200x harder and ignore everything they said when lowkey you know they're right.
- Deafen.
- Leave the group tell everyone the games aren't fun and discourage multiple people from playing.
- Just don't respond.
There is probably a few others ways but these are ones I'm thinking of right now at this moment.
Pre WoD when I lacked a lot of knowledge about Warsong Gulch I got flamed a lot for throwing games by multiple people, even some people I talk to today such as Ben Tilley. I never really cried a whole lot about it unless I thought they/he was in the wrong. I usually just try-harded to prove them wrong the next game. I feel like a lot of twinks from my period of time did that also.
I feel like nowadays, in the words of livingforce people are "carebears" and because of that we don't invite the "toxic" players that would provide a competitive atmosphere which results in mediocre games.

In my opinion you should never take to heart the flame, but you should note the criticism.
If you know you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't care.
If you know you did something wrong fix it.
I also think people need to stop taking the words of people over the internet so seriously and making a big issue about it.

That's my opinion on Toxicity, whats yours?
Click to expand...

I think there's an important distinction that needs to be pointed out here.

If we didn't play games because people were toxic, there would never be games. A lot of players in this bracket are toxic, even some players who generally aren't toxic say/do toxic things on occasion.

Toxicity, as you say Quack, is ultimately something we have to deal with in our own personal way. Deafening, mental filtering, etc. Some ways are more mature than others.

However, some toxicity is not corrosive to a single player, but rather the entire team, and creates a domino effect that makes the quality of any given game significantly worse. I'm not saying this from a subjective standpoint, but literally the team is tilted/annoyed to the point where key positions are played objectively worse, and a loss is way more likely.

Toxicity is one thing, single-handedly destroying a game is another.

Here's the underlying issue with a few specific players that this thread is obviously geared towards:

- Particularly for objective classes/players, communication is required with most of the team, so deafening isn't really an option.

- The things the player may be saying are almost never valuable in an objective sense, because they focus on "Why did you do X?" instead of "You did X when you should have done Y." Notice how the second one provides a useful call to action, while the first one is useless.

- The player consistently says these things to the point where it becomes a performance-hindering distraction/annoyance, once again without the option to deafen/mute.

- The player makes no effort to change their habits and adapt to what's best to the team, instead forcing the team to adapt to them.

- The player is replaceable with someone else who is at least relatively competent, so there's not a requirement to have them on the team.

- While some players can effectively focus on the game during all of this, some cannot, and are likely to leave/stop playing. While this may be viewed as a weakness, as LilD pointed out before, if 5 players drop because of 1 person, then the inclusion of that one person is a net loss for getting enough players to play games.

Essentially, this extends beyond toxicity and becomes a direct hurdle to forming/maintaining games. If it was just a toxicity issue, then people would find their own ways to deal with it, and games would continue as usual.

Sometimes it's just the better option to remove someone from games until they change their habits, not because it's a means of enacting revenge or justice or whatever, but because the community is stretched too thin to compensate for losing a lot of players over one person.

Either the community has to get larger with more players who can put up with this, or the player has to change. Until then, I don't really have any qualms with banning one player for the sake of perpetuating games. Games generally have the potential to be high quality if enough veterans are online.

Just my opinion, as usual. Generally I dislike singling someone else out and preventing them from playing the game that they're paying for in the way they want to play it. But I see how it's necessary from time to time.

If any of the singled out players are reading this, I genuinely hope we can reach some sort of resolution so that you can play. But it's going to take a mix of effort on your end and on the community's end.
 
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Quack said:
Over the past few weeks especially people have been blacklisted from plebmades/real id premades because they're toxic. I'm sometimes unsure what is considered Toxicity especially in this day and age.

From what I've been told calling someone a bad player or using different terms to express that is considered Toxicity.
If someone is to /afk a game because their team is bad that is also considered Toxicity.
If someone refuses to play with another member because they think they're bad or just dislike them i guess that is also Toxicity.
To exploit/hack in a game is also considered being Toxic.

In my personal opinion. Toxicity comes in different forms. I for one have called a million players awful every time they've messed up including good friends of mine such as @Iild - I've called him every name you can think of but I still talk to this guy on a daily basis no problem. I could list 100's of other players that have messed up and I am "toxic" towards them. At some point I broke a keyboard playing RBG because I messed up badly and I kick myself more about it because I've a certain standard for every player/ myself. So it's not like I don't admit to making mistakes I do.

The " real " twinks don't take this toxicity to heart.
Someone calls you, bad, the worst player in the world etc there is a few ways to Handle it.
- Do your very best to understand what they're saying, understand they're heated because its a spur of the moment thing and read between the lines of rage to hear what they're really trying to say.
- Wait for them to calm down and ask them then what you did to mess up and try to fix it that way.
- Call them even worse and flame them 200x harder and ignore everything they said when lowkey you know they're right.
- Deafen.
- Leave the group tell everyone the games aren't fun and discourage multiple people from playing.
- Just don't respond.
There is probably a few others ways but these are ones I'm thinking of right now at this moment.
Pre WoD when I lacked a lot of knowledge about Warsong Gulch I got flamed a lot for throwing games by multiple people, even some people I talk to today such as Ben Tilley. I never really cried a whole lot about it unless I thought they/he was in the wrong. I usually just try-harded to prove them wrong the next game. I feel like a lot of twinks from my period of time did that also.
I feel like nowadays, in the words of livingforce people are "carebears" and because of that we don't invite the "toxic" players that would provide a competitive atmosphere which results in mediocre games.

In my opinion you should never take to heart the flame, but you should note the criticism.
If you know you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't care.
If you know you did something wrong fix it.
I also think people need to stop taking the words of people over the internet so seriously and making a big issue about it.

That's my opinion on Toxicity, whats yours?
Click to expand...
shut up noobo
 
Neebler said:
Either the community has to get larger with more players who can put up with this, or the player has to change. Until then, I don't really have any qualms with banning one player for the sake of perpetuating games. Games generally have the potential to be high quality if enough veterans are online.

Just my opinion, as usual.
Click to expand...

I think people will have to learn to adapt. It's easier to help someone adapt to an atmosphere that they're new to than to change someone who's been in that atmosphere all his life.


Neebler said:
Sometimes it's just the better option to remove someone from games until they change their habits, not because it's a means of enacting revenge or justice or whatever, but because the community is stretched too thin to compensate for losing a lot of players over one person.
Click to expand...

I feel to some degree people should look at the teams and judge. An example being @Original
A "veteran" 19 player. He flamed Elunaria for FC'ing once when he knew before the game started she would be awful. Granted I'm sure he looked back and said " Yeah it was a little pointless did nothing " - But I understand it's easier said than done when looking back at a situation.

tl;dr if you don't recognize the name / you do recognize the name and you give them instructions to follow and they don't follow them and die because of it I feel you're entitled to Criticize
if the person receives no instructions from anyone and has already announced they're not confident on their role and would like assistance then it is the teams fault if they die and they are entitled to Criticize
if they are also given wrong instructions and die because of it then they're also entitled to Criticize the person who gave the instructions
It's not a black and white issue.
I could list other examples but I won't.
I don't think removing people is the answer.
 
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