EU+US too annoyed to think of a cool title

I do have to agree with lild on one thing, the noticable LACK of ANY post regarding the 2017 twink cup on the official forums. Again, nice fucking promo vid, but common sense should have led the creator of said video to post it on the official forums to get more eyes on it than this silly little niche website. 2014, had an offical thread on the blizzard froums. 2015, had an offical thread on the blizz forums. 2016, had an offical thread on the blizz forums. (are we seeing a pattern yet, my carebear compadres?)

Ya, must have been the "toxic players" preventing the 2017 Twink Cup Official Thread from being created on the forums with more traffic in a single day than this niche page will see in a bloody year, even with the russian clickbots.
 
I agree with a lot in this thread, however I disagree about the source of toxicity being out of pattern. As the twink community grew smaller and smaller, it rapidly inflated egos. Egos were immense back then too, however the complete disregard for one another was not socially where it is today. We knew we were playing against other people and we had competition in good fun. The social trends of the internet have been quite reminiscent of 4chan and that type of behavior in the more recent years. The 19s community found itself in the most vile position it had ever been, DDOSing each other, bullying each other and laughing about each other committing suicide, Skype resolving, giving out each other's IPs etc. You missed this back in pre WOD / early WOD. The overly inflated ego 4chan power tripping has been out of hand in general and it has very little to do with new community members aside from them having no metric for respect, due to the lack of having better examples. I feel as though it has a lot to do with seasoned community members disregarding the ecosystem of fun competition out of the desire for the satisfaction of embarrassing and outcasting others. What used to be considered fun was playing premades and even playing PUGs. However, when stomping jajas in Skype groups became the standard for PUGs, games lost their enjoyability and people turned to more "exciting" sources of fun, i.e. the toxicity that I have mentioned in this post and the same behavior we witness daily amongst one another.


It was always sad for me to watch a new member who showed promising signs of respect for the community be warped and mindlessly pressured to fit in with the in crowd. It was even more sad to see how much they had changed themselves to fit in and become the people whom they have became today.


Just my 2c
Mocha
 
@ the O.P.
I popped in tonight to see whats going on on here. Im not twinking this expansion. I tried at the start and just did not enjoy it. Everything felt like shit. I was looking forward to the XPon and XPoff merger, but when they dropped the hammer on how things scale in BGs stats wise it really changed things. I dont need ridiculous stats to enjoy twinking. But, to me the changes they made killed a major part of twinking. Then to top it of, they had priests running around with God mode on the first few months of the expansion. Then there is survival hunters... There were other changes made a few months into the expansion that were the final nail in my wanting to twink. Ive tried a couple times to get interested. I really havent enjoyed any of the few random BGs ive popped into over the last 8 months.
Anyway, I enjoyed your post. It echoes my thoughts and experiences back in the late Vanilla and forward days. Im hoping the next expansion brings forth some more pleasant changes for the 19s bracket.

As usual I agree with Mocha too. He and I usually have the same opinion on things.
 
From what I understand of this years TC based off conq's video you've essentially got a megaguild formed of nearly every good player in the bracket monopolized correct? That kills competition. It's understandable though, it happened with us at 70 in cata as well. We went from groups of friends spread across multiple guilds & eventually all ended up morphing into one "super team" which was undefeated in 100+ rbgs. What happened was everyone got tired of attempting to put together teams only to fall apart after crushing blows. A lot of people don't have the will to sit & get railed 20+ games in a row to develope some sort of strategy, especially if they're used to doing well at end-game or other brackets.

By the end of Cata our guild xxmd Nation held 50-60 active 70s daily, all of which were the high rated rbg/arena players. It got to a point that if you weren't on sargeras in the guild you were an "outsider" in the bracket of sorts. It wasn't necessarily that we planned it to go that way but more so the reputation the name & guild ended up having due to the player base we had grown & the names/ratings attached to it. From what I can tell that's whats happened with GSC. I look at that Armory & see names that played on both our team JCM, Skill Ratio, GSC, Harvest's team the year the TC had like 8-10 active teams play.

Nobody wants to stray from the pack & make new rosters when they're aware of a Super team roster they're faced with beating within their own guild/friends group. We overcame this by literally having "NAO Draft Nights" in the guild. We'd pick nights, say a tuesday, thursday, saturday, time of like 7pm? We had a guild filled with everyone's alt lvl 1s & we'd pick captains, pick 3-4 teams worth, & play. Good players got spread across multiple teams & the competition felt real again even though we were all playing within the same guild.

tldr; You can't form super teams/guilds & expect competition to be a thing. Especially at quite possibly the worst spot the game's ever been for pvp oriented players.
 
Mocha said:
I agree with a lot in this thread, however I disagree about the source of toxicity being out of pattern. As the twink community grew smaller and smaller, it rapidly inflated egos. Egos were immense back then too, however the complete disregard for one another was not socially where it is today. We knew we were playing against other people and we had competition in good fun. The social trends of the internet have been quite reminiscent of 4chan and that type of behavior in the more recent years. The 19s community found itself in the most vile position it had ever been, DDOSing each other, bullying each other and laughing about each other committing suicide, Skype resolving, giving out each other's IPs etc. You missed this back in pre WOD / early WOD. The overly inflated ego 4chan power tripping has been out of hand in general and it has very little to do with new community members aside from them having no metric for respect, due to the lack of having better examples. I feel as though it has a lot to do with seasoned community members disregarding the ecosystem of fun competition out of the desire for the satisfaction of embarrassing and outcasting others. What used to be considered fun was playing premades and even playing PUGs. However, when stomping jajas in Skype groups became the standard for PUGs, games lost their enjoyability and people turned to more "exciting" sources of fun, i.e. the toxicity that I have mentioned in this post and the same behavior we witness daily amongst one another.


It was always sad for me to watch a new member who showed promising signs of respect for the community be warped and mindlessly pressured to fit in with the in crowd. It was even more sad to see how much they had changed themselves to fit in and become the people whom they have became today.


Just my 2c
Mocha
Click to expand...
Freestylex said:
From what I understand of this years TC based off conq's video you've essentially got a megaguild formed of nearly every good player in the bracket monopolized correct? That kills competition. It's understandable though, it happened with us at 70 in cata as well. We went from groups of friends spread across multiple guilds & eventually all ended up morphing into one "super team" which was undefeated in 100+ rbgs. What happened was everyone got tired of attempting to put together teams only to fall apart after crushing blows. A lot of people don't have the will to sit & get railed 20+ games in a row to develope some sort of strategy, especially if they're used to doing well at end-game or other brackets.

By the end of Cata our guild xxmd Nation held 50-60 active 70s daily, all of which were the high rated rbg/arena players. It got to a point that if you weren't on sargeras in the guild you were an "outsider" in the bracket of sorts. It wasn't necessarily that we planned it to go that way but more so the reputation the name & guild ended up having due to the player base we had grown & the names/ratings attached to it. From what I can tell that's whats happened with GSC. I look at that Armory & see names that played on both our team JCM, Skill Ratio, GSC, Harvest's team the year the TC had like 8-10 active teams play.

Nobody wants to stray from the pack & make new rosters when they're aware of a Super team roster they're faced with beating within their own guild/friends group. We overcame this by literally having "NAO Draft Nights" in the guild. We'd pick nights, say a tuesday, thursday, saturday, time of like 7pm? We had a guild filled with everyone's alt lvl 1s & we'd pick captains, pick 3-4 teams worth, & play. Good players got spread across multiple teams & the competition felt real again even though we were all playing within the same guild.

tldr; You can't form super teams/guilds & expect competition to be a thing. Especially at quite possibly the worst spot the game's ever been for pvp oriented players.
Click to expand...
Quoted for wisdom
 
Freestylex said:
From what I understand of this years TC based off conq's video you've essentially got a megaguild formed of nearly every good player in the bracket monopolized correct? That kills competition. It's understandable though, it happened with us at 70 in cata as well. We went from groups of friends spread across multiple guilds & eventually all ended up morphing into one "super team" which was undefeated in 100+ rbgs. What happened was everyone got tired of attempting to put together teams only to fall apart after crushing blows. A lot of people don't have the will to sit & get railed 20+ games in a row to develope some sort of strategy, especially if they're used to doing well at end-game or other brackets.

By the end of Cata our guild xxmd Nation held 50-60 active 70s daily, all of which were the high rated rbg/arena players. It got to a point that if you weren't on sargeras in the guild you were an "outsider" in the bracket of sorts. It wasn't necessarily that we planned it to go that way but more so the reputation the name & guild ended up having due to the player base we had grown & the names/ratings attached to it. From what I can tell that's whats happened with GSC. I look at that Armory & see names that played on both our team JCM, Skill Ratio, GSC, Harvest's team the year the TC had like 8-10 active teams play.

Nobody wants to stray from the pack & make new rosters when they're aware of a Super team roster they're faced with beating within their own guild/friends group. We overcame this by literally having "NAO Draft Nights" in the guild. We'd pick nights, say a tuesday, thursday, saturday, time of like 7pm? We had a guild filled with everyone's alt lvl 1s & we'd pick captains, pick 3-4 teams worth, & play. Good players got spread across multiple teams & the competition felt real again even though we were all playing within the same guild.

tldr; You can't form super teams/guilds & expect competition to be a thing. Especially at quite possibly the worst spot the game's ever been for pvp oriented players.
Click to expand...

Powerhouses are a natural gravitation in a competitive environment though. However, one can't dispute the logic behind the games being overall more close if these players were to be scattered among different teams. Again, coming back to powerhouses being a natural gravitation, good/best players will always want to play with each other because they often share the same goals and passion. Forming a powerhouse also means that there will be a certain prestige to it.

Now, there were times where powerhouses didn't have the effect you put forth in your post. The very reason GSC got to the position they are in today, is because there was competition to be had. There was already an established powerhouse before they themselves took the position. Aka Skill Ratio. GSC themselves came with a history of being a powerhouse in the 20-24 bracket, and later 20-29 bracket. So, as you can see, powerhouses can also have a positive effect, making people stand up and compete. Naturally, if people care, they all want to be the best. And being the best, means beating the best. Powerhouses can spark competition as well, and doesn't necessarily have to bring it down. We saw this effect throughout WoD with plenty of teams competing against one another.

It all depends on the mindset of the people in the current bracket. However, with Legion being the trashcan expansion that it is (concerning twinking at least), a lot of those people who could have provided some decent competition either quit the game/put it on a pause, or simply just turned to endgame. And with that in mind, it also means that powerhouses has little to no reason to log on and be active themselves, because those who were remotely close to be in the range of "competition" are simply non-existent. This also means that there is no advocation for said powerhouses. With minimal to no exposure, the general, new people, who does have a competitive mindset, will also be less interested overall. When I hear stories about how people got into twinking, it's usually the same story on US. "I got farmed by Pizza and his team and thought, wow, I wanna be like that". And so they started their twinking journey.

Thing is, twinking just doesn't have the same exposure anymore. And one of those reasons is that gear doesn't matter all too much. With levelers being pretty much on pare with twinks now in terms of strength, they will be completely oblivious to its existence without active promotion. Twinks were easily recognizable with their gear and appearances and brute force. Now, you run around with weird pieces like random fucking 35 ilvl cloth legs on clothies, and white neck + rings. This hardly shows anything to those who are less informed about the game.

There was also huge exposure in WoD outside of what has already been mentioned. Some may remember Fearthebuns on Twitch, or the project, "GG 19" run by Conq, as well as a lot of other things running both on and behind the scenes. There was a ton of elements of exposure. Now, I am not saying they have all given up completely. Recently, an event of wargames promoted by HB (Feathebuns) and Dan is going in the right direction. It's now up to the community members to partake and make these events a success to spark some general interest again.

We really need people wanting to come back. We can attempt this by trying to make the game appealing in the best way possible, or simply wait for the game to naturally appeal to people again. Or we simply have to wait for the new players to become more established. Only then will we get decent games again.

Twinking could need some good exposure again, and events such as the one made by HB and Dan is only stepping in the right direction. Nothing can be achieved without the community wanting to do so, and their willingness to participate to keep the competitive environment alive. New, or old - doesn't matter.
 
Bestworld said:
Powerhouses are a natural gravitation in a competitive environment though. However, one can't dispute the logic behind the games being overall more close if these players were to be scattered among different teams. Again, coming back to powerhouses being a natural gravitation, good/best players will always want to play with each other because they often share the same goals and passion. Forming a powerhouse also means that there will be a certain prestige to it.

Now, there were times where powerhouses didn't have the effect you put forth in your post. The very reason GSC got to the position they are in today, is because there was competition to be had. There was already an established powerhouse before they themselves took the position. Aka Skill Ratio. GSC themselves came with a history of being a powerhouse in the 20-24 bracket, and later 20-29 bracket. So, as you can see, powerhouses can also have a positive effect, making people stand up and compete. Naturally, if people care, they all want to be the best. And being the best, means beating the best. Powerhouses can spark competition as well, and doesn't necessarily have to bring it down. We saw this effect throughout WoD with plenty of teams competing against one another.

It all depends on the mindset of the people in the current bracket. However, with Legion being the trashcan expansion that it is (concerning twinking at least), a lot of those people who could have provided some decent competition either quit the game/put it on a pause, or simply just turned to endgame. And with that in mind, it also means that powerhouses has little to no reason to log on and be active themselves, because those who were remotely close to be in the range of "competition" are simply non-existent. This also means that there is no advocation for said powerhouses. With minimal to no exposure, the general, new people, who does have a competitive mindset, will also be less interested overall. When I hear stories about how people got into twinking, it's usually the same story on US. "I got farmed by Pizza and his team and thought, wow, I wanna be like that". And so they started their twinking journey.

Thing is, twinking just doesn't have the same exposure anymore. And one of those reasons is that gear doesn't matter all too much. With levelers being pretty much on pare with twinks now in terms of strength, they will be completely oblivious to its existence without active promotion. Twinks were easily recognizable with their gear and appearances and brute force. Now, you run around with weird pieces like random trucking 35 ilvl cloth legs on clothies, and white neck + rings. This hardly shows anything to those who are less informed about the game.

There was also huge exposure in WoD outside of what has already been mentioned. Some may remember Fearthebuns on Twitch, or the project, "GG 19" run by Conq, as well as a lot of other things running both on and behind the scenes. There was a ton of elements of exposure. Now, I am not saying they have all given up completely. Recently, an event of wargames promoted by HB (Feathebuns) and Dan is going in the right direction. It's now up to the community members to partake and make these events a success to spark some general interest again.

We really need people wanting to come back. We can attempt this by trying to make the game appealing in the best way possible, or simply wait for the game to naturally appeal to people again. Or we simply have to wait for the new players to become more established. Only then will we get decent games again.

Twinking could need some good exposure again, and events such as the one made by HB and Dan is only stepping in the right direction. Nothing can be achieved without the community wanting to do so, and their willingness to participate to keep the competitive environment alive. New, or old - doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
just write a book already
 
Seems like the 7 of us that are left from last years winning team would need to become hated by the rest of u to step up and try to beat us
 
Next Episode : How I ended up dick ridin trice
 
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