Thrown vs Shoot for rogues

Discussion in 'Level 19 Twinking' started by shredsmog, May 26, 2011.

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  1. shredsmog

    shredsmog Grandfathered

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    I AM POSTING THE BEST RESPONSES TO THE QUESTION "WHY IS THROWN SUPERIOR TO SHOOT" HERE (quotes are credited to members of this forum):



    You can apply poisons to thrown weapons.



    Thrown interrupts bandaging faster (sooner).

    "The health pools in this bracket are small enough that, for the most part, one heavy runecloth bandaid is a full heal - and that small cast time ( vs the larger one of a gun/bow) could be the difference between you winning the duel, downing the EFC, or not. Especially if that EFC is someone good, you simply don't want to give them the benefit of an extra bandaid tick or two before it is interrupted." -Diiesel



    Thrown offers greater utility

    "Sludge-caked vs. Throat piercers is a miniscule difference in stats, utility is the same. Gun/bow vs. Thrown is a miniscule stat difference and a large utility difference. Not using thrown is, imo, no different than pulling kick off of your bar CUZ I DO MOAR DPS WIF SS RITE? Keeping a warrior in combat prevents a charge, keeping a druid/rogue in combat prevents a stealth escape, thrown prevents 2-ticking (effectively causing an additional 250-500 damage depending on poison proc), thrown can push back a heal long enough for your offence to get another GCD on the EFC, the list goes on and on and on and on. Why would you trade all of that for 1 agi and 2 stam?" - Rivfader



    "Guns/bows wont stop 2-ticks, won't even effect a flash heal or FoL, and they will be outranged before you can even get them off most of the time." -Rivfader
    (excellent)



    "You're in a fight with a Warrior, hes backstrafing away, he is just about to go out of combat, you hit him with a thrown and avoid being charged. You're fighting another rogue who is just about to restealth... same result." - Diiesel

    "A Mage frostnova's you, and blinks away, he is very low on health..." - Diiesel



    "Having a thrown weapon is an additional tool in the same way that engy bombs are additional tools. If used correctly they give you a significant advantage. If you don't use them you are gimped..." -Rivfader



    "a throw can crit for 80+ and can be cast so slickly between back strafe jumps, and on top of that you can get the instant poison proc off it." -Sàxxon



    "I always thought thrown were the paramount choice of the rogue class. It just made sense, even when I was a bad. I always thought, if I wanted to use a bow I'd just roll a hunter, but I didn't." -Opinion (LMFAO)



    BEST ANSWER I HAVE FOUND SO FAR:


    "I do not play rogue at 19, neither at any other level. But I do know one thing, Thrown weapon is all the way. If, for an unknown reason, you are so retarded and never use range weapon, then it's not my fault if you litterally fail at understanding your class and should seriously stay with your stupid gun. Thrown weapon are simply better, you can't let someone pull bandages off, the time it takes to shoot with a stupid gun takes forever, the time it will take to shoot with your gun (Minimum 1,7sec) is just enough to give enemy 2 tics of bandages which is literrally 500 HP heals. If you just throw your ranged weapon, it takes, 0,5sec, which, if timed correctly might stop his bandage before one tic. Also, you can't afford a rogue or druid to re-stealth, if you tell me either: They can run away even if I use thrown weapon because LoS ain't hard, well, you're retarded, keep your freaking enemy in combat not 50 yards away. Or you could tell me: I'd rather have more stats then keep them in combat, well obviously, you fail. Overall, who cares about the extra what 30 hp and 3 agi? If you can stop bandage at the speed of lightning and keep enemy in combat in a good yard radius? Who's retarded enough to use a gun over Long-range Combat and bandage stopper+Poisoning for 30hp and 3 agi? You choose. If I had to, I'd go thrown weapon. but it looks like a lot of players actually just epicly fail and use guns and they try to help someone out? No sorry, you fail sir." - bankbeauty



    My Personal Conclusion after field testing:

    As of this writing I'm using clunky, slow old Blacksmithing darts, nothing close to BiS, but I have nevertheless been afforded a more than substantial glimpse into how and why thrown > shoot for mele on almost every possible level. It's a Difference Maker (caps intentional) without any shadow of a doubt. I would say that the person who is getting 25 killing blows a game while using guns/bows, while another, superior rogue - who is using thrown - is only getting, let's say 15 killing blows, is wildly erroneous in thinking they are the better player. They are probably just cherry picking kb's rather than getting in the mix and dominating. Shadowstepping in and ambushing opponents at half health as your singular source of kb's has to get really stale. I'd much rather have 15 well fought kb's than 25 cherry picks, but that's just me, I wildly enjoy the combat, strategic employment of skill/experience over the mere act of finishing someone off. Not to say that I'm going to let someone run by me at half health because it's "no fun" to kill them; I'm just not basing my game around it or salivating for the "opportunity". I have to say that finishing players off with ranged or interrupting them, buying time, etc. all add up to greater enjoyment of the game, which brings us to another reason to choose thrown: it opens up an entirely new toolset (and resulting skillset), making everything more, you know, like, FUN. I think the only way guns/bows is more fun for players is if one just doesn't want to think on one's feet or use skill, etc., because, hey, it makes things "too difficult", lol.
     
  2. Paragon

    Paragon Grandfathered

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    I am new to twinking but honestly, this shouldnt even be discussed. Thrown will always be far superior.
     
  3. Dcm

    Dcm idc

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    Thrown is most definately more useful then a gun/bow. Why? Because Utility > Stats. If you check out Curley's 19 rogue guide, I believe he mentions something about that. Thrown can be a finisher, but also keep in mind you can prevent a druid or another rogue from restealth.



    Edit- Also, since you're Alliance I would go for Throat Piercers since Sludge-Caked are available to Horde only.
     
  4. OP
    shredsmog

    shredsmog Grandfathered

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    Thanks for the response Tryiapriest3. You say Utility > Stats, and I'd love to have a definition of what this "utility" entails - and ALL that it entails.
     
  5. OP
    shredsmog

    shredsmog Grandfathered

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    I accept that thrown is superior, but I'm eager to discuss WHY. I know you may find my question to be absurd, and I appreciate that. The fact is, as of this writing, I do not understand the mechanics of throw vs shoot, or why throw would be so superior to shoot that you'd be better of equipping a statless thrown weapon than any existing gun/bow in the game.
     
  6. Lunarral

    Lunarral Member

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    A thrown weapon has more "Utility" because its cast time is just a small fraction compared to a gun/bow. So the loss of a few stats by picking up the Thrown is acceptable.
     
  7. Diiesel

    Diiesel Member

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    Its the COOLDOWN!
     
  8. OP
    shredsmog

    shredsmog Grandfathered

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    And how does having a shorter cast time help, situationally? Examples, if you don't mind.
     
  9. Diiesel

    Diiesel Member

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    Your in a fight with a Warrior, hes backstrafing away, he is just about to go out of combat, you hit him with a thrown and avoid being charged.

    Your fighting another rogue who is just about to restealth... same result.

    A Mage frostnova's you, and blinks away, he is very low on health and you know he is going for the bandage, he throw, KABLAM, bandage inturrupted.



    These are just a few of the situations.



    Think about this logically. Do you ever see anyone go against the audience in who wants to be a billionaire? and what happeneds to those people who do? If the vast majority are saying use a thrown, then most likely there is a REALLY good reason behind it



    /endthread... again..
     
  10. OP
    shredsmog

    shredsmog Grandfathered

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    No one has said this yet: You can apply poisons to thrown weapons.
     
  11. saxxon

    saxxon saxxon Founder

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    ok listen up #1 ninteen twink rogue sax in the building telling u 2 equip ya throw wep a bow will never compete unless its venomstrike cause that shits the shit
     
  12. Rivfader

    Rivfader Grandfathered

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    I would love for you to use the search function. Believe it or not all the answers to your questions lie there! :)
     
  13. saxxon

    saxxon saxxon Founder

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    u just hav 2 hav had played a rogue pre cata in arena
     
  14. #ko

    #ko Member

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    i wish i could throw stuffs!
     
  15. saxxon

    saxxon saxxon Founder

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    shoot>throw



    IM TALKING ABOUT WANDS THOUGH
     
  16. chíll

    chíll Grandfathered

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    yh rogues with wands are pro business bro. pro business. also, u can get them awesome critz if you stack haste and ambush things with your [ITEM]Fishing Pole[/item]
     
  17. Dcm

    Dcm idc

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    I didn't think anyone would have needed to mention this.
     
  18. siwtz

    siwtz Grandfathered

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    It's good to mention this because there are new players coming to the bracket that need all the information they need. Most people don't know about that because they don't play a rogue as main. So It's good that he mention that. He should mention all of the basics so new players can learn.
     
  19. Curley

    Curley Member

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    Thrown>bow u gotta be a fast thrown bandit tink.
     
  20. Pizza

    Pizza 2014, 2015, & 2018 TC Champ Founder Skill Ratio

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    The minor stats you would gain from a bow doesn't come close to the utility a throwing weapon provides. The only time you should use a bow over a throwing weapon is if you're going to be Ambushing an FC with Brutal Assault.
     

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