Tence's SL Hpally guide or "oh god not another xpac where he thinks hes a resto shaman"

Discussion in '20s (Shadowlands)' started by tence, Jan 21, 2021.

Share This Page

  1. tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    As a disclaimer, this is just my personal take on gearing choices and generally how to min/max stats for best performance in a bg setting. These may be controversial choices as they have been in the past, but I've always felt hpally was unique in that it had access to EVERY possible piece of healing gear between armour types. Unfortunately this xpac almost all of the bc gemmed plate gear is quite awful for secondary stats, and as such is inferior to other options.

    stat priority
    int > haste (to around 28% outside of bgs) > verse > mastery > crit (crit is garbage and should only be taken if absolutely needed)

    Gear:
    Head: Circle of flame (the on use is just too crucial in this mana hungry healing meta, it seriously changes things up drastically)
    neck: choker of the betrayal (essentially trading 4 int over 13 haste 8 verse, which is a lot but with the rest of the build the haste isnt really needed and the int is)
    shoulders: Ravenwing pauldrons (highest amount of int possible with perfect secondary stats. greatly outperforms ilvl 28 shoulders imo)
    back: ilvl28 aurora cape socketed - 6 haste 3 verse (2 haste > 1 verse imo)
    chest: Hauberk of desolation (only choosing this over the other mail chest to combo later with the gloves for the set bonus, most haste and gems)
    bracers: ilvl28 aurora bracers socketed - 6 haste 3 verse (2 haste > 1 verse imo)
    gloves: Gaunlets of desolation (most gems and haste plus the nice set bonus for free to get some extra crit)
    belt: ilvl28 aurora belt socketed - 6 haste 6 verse (2 verse > 1 haste imo)
    legs: wyrmscale greaves (highest gems to secondary stats item available. 4 verse is better than 1 int vs the other possible pair)
    boots: dragon slayer's sabatons (highest gem to haste ratio of all boots)
    ring1: ilvl28 aurora ring - 18 haste 7 verse socketed (just too good of a stat stick)
    ring2: ilvl28 aurora ring - 18 haste 7 verse socketed (just too good of a stat stick)
    trinket1: ilvl28 int/haste socketed trinket (too good of a stat stick again)
    trinket2: pvp heirloom trinket (why are you not using this?)
    wep: Essence focuser (highest int available) (alternative for those like me that are lazy zealot blade)
    shield: aurora socketed shield - 4 haste 3 verse (verse is better than mastery)

    -this will put you at about 28% haste, 23% verse, and 207 int outside bgs without flask
    -all gems should be 2 int 2 verse as the 3 int gem only provides 1 extra to all spells in pvp and no extra to spells outside of pvp, the verse is more impactful)
    -stacking stam as a healer in my eyes is pointless, I think I've been 1shot once in the dozens and dozens of games ive played currently, and even then it doesn't happen often enough to warrant gimping your heals. I see the extra hp as a crutch for poor positioning and weak fake casting skills.
    -This xpac fake casting is NEEDED

    talent - bestow faith (too good period, it heals for a ton and is another useful healing tool, it trumps every other talent by a large margin)
    pvp talent - divine favour (having an uninterruptable heal that ALSO increased the healing and casting speed is just too good, used with holy light it regular heals for about 1600-1800 and crits for about 3k. insane)

    some useful tips and tricks
    -save divine favour for holy light only, the casting speed will be fast enough and it heals for so much. I cant think of a situation I'd ever need an even faster FOL
    -learn to swap beacon of light just after the cast ends for a heal, you will get the beacon heal on your target of choice (this is a benefit of high haste)
    -use your dispell please
    -you are not a ret paladin. Please heal people. You are a healer not a dps class.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 19
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. OP
    tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    bumping this up with another section.... macros and keybinds (and other misc advanced stuff)!

    I would say much of my success over the years healing have been related to effective macro usage, and more importantly adopting mouseover macros to healing. This not only decreases your reaction times, but also hides what person you are healing from the enemy. Overall there is no downside that I can see to adopting and getting used to mouseover macros.

    That being said here are my personal macros I use. For simplicity's sake I will not include every macro as they are generally all the same.

    The general all purpose flash of light macro:
    #showtooltip Flash of Light
    /cast [mod:ctrl, target=player][@mouseover,exists,help,nodead][@target,exists,help,nodead][@focus,help,nodead][] Flash of Light

    What this does is as follows in this order:
    1. if I hold control and the keybind is targets myself
    2. if I mouseover a target it will cast on the mouseover
    3. if my target is friendly I will cast on the target (I find targetted healing more useful for arenas and situations where I can't focus health bars as much.
    4. if my focus is friendly it will target the focus.

    I use this same macro framework for all other healing and healing related abilities. It generally just makes things a lot easier and can be applied to every healing class. Try it yourself!

    I also have a focus cleanse macro as follows:
    #showtooltip
    /stopcasting
    /cast [target=focus, exists] Cleanse; Cleanse

    -this will stop your immediate cast and cleanse the focus, if it exists. I prefer to keep a key melee on focus and be able to dispell them quickly if needed.

    My focus macro
    /clearfocus
    /focus [@mouseover,nodead,exists]; [@target,exists]

    -focuses the target if you are targetting something, or clears it if nothing is targetted. Works for mouseover and targets. very helpful.

    A newer divine favour/holy light combo macro
    #showtooltip Holy Light
    /cast Divine Favor(PvP Talent)
    /cast [mod:ctrl, target=player][@mouseover,exists,help,nodead][@target,exists,help,nodead][@focus,help,nodead][] Holy light

    -this immediately casts divine favour and holy light in the same button press allowing you to get off a big heal in the same global cooldown. very useful.

    *Note if anyone has any specific questions or comments feel free to ask. Macros are weird but fun!

    KEYBINDS

    keybinds are a very personal thing and everyone will have different keybinds. Its helpful to know what other people are using to maybe get an idea. I will list mine out as follows in order

    ` : pvp trinket
    shift + e : human racial
    capslock : judgment
    r : word of glory
    j : heal belt/healthstone
    c : beacon of light
    f : bestow faith
    L : toys macro/flask
    H : battlestandard
    Z: lay on hands
    control + X : mana regain head
    1 : holy light
    2 : flash of light
    3 : holy light + divine favour
    4 : holy shock
    5 : hammer of justice
    6 : focus hammer of justice
    Q : focus cleanse
    E : mouseover/general cleanse
    T : divine favour
    control + V : divine shield
    X : crusader strike
    shift + R : Divine steed
    Control + X : consecration
    control + E : taunt

    A few notes...
    -I double up on a few of my abilities in the action bar to see the cooldown easier
    -I hide the macro names and keybind from the ui to see the cooldowns easier

    MISC try-harding notes...
    - I play with a high mouse sensitivity to help with healing flicks and moving between healing targets. It marginally helps...
    - I play with the camera maxed out further than the normal max range to help with awareness. Its very helpful.

    I use basically 5 addons
    - Battleground enemies
    - HideBlizzard
    - NameplateCooldowns (to track who has used interrupts around me)
    - omnibar (to track interrupts as well)
    - Saysapped (that I modified to be more fun)

    I dont think you really need more than bgenemies, nameplatecooldowns, and omnibar honestly.

    UI (with my professional paint skills)
    tence pic.jpg
    Section 3 will be about positioning and fake casting with video clip examples.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2021
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. OP
    tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    In this last section I will be going over fake casting as well as positioning. This is the most advanced section, and will take the most time to get comfortable with/proficient at.

    Positioning: Why playing defensive is important as a healer, and how to position yourself within the engagement for best results.

    positioning example.png

    Generally speaking, you always want to sit behind your offensive push. This way you are still in range of your teammates but it forces the opposing enemy to have to push into your team to get to you, making predicting interrupts/cc a lot easier and potentially getting them to range their healers/generally making everyone on the opposing team's life more annoying/harder.

    Personally, I always try to spread myself out from other players and either hide myself in a bush or near something solid so I can los fears/cc and force melee to have to come to me to either get a kick off or a stun (which makes it super easy to spot).

    Another great example of positioning is sitting on top of a mage teammate when you know a rogue is going to open on you. This allows them to freeze the rogue in place and allows you to move to a safer location, locking them down.

    https://www.twitch.tv/tenceirl/clip/MildObeseLobsterResidentSleeper-os-QC4G4GGJDOI4t

    Healers make good node protectors in a pinch, essentially acting as a meat shield. This clip I sit the node and heal through the opposing team's push until my teammates arrive and we clear them away.

    https://www.twitch.tv/tenceirl/clip/EasyToughOstrichVoteNay-BR_Q8Ogf98aUMGGB

    Generally speaking, as the healer you decide how the engagement goes. You decide if the opposing team has to break off and come to you, or if they have to range their healers to start pressuring you. Once you get into the mindset that you are the one in control and force the opposing team to play by your rules, things become a lot easier.

    Some general positioning tips
    • Playing near the back of the engagement allows you to easily break off to drink/get your mana back.
    • Use the environment to your advantage, LOS with solid objects and hide in bushes to make yourself harder to spot visually.
    • Do everything in your power to make yourself as annoying as possible to kill. This will make the opposing team not want to go through the hassle of trying to kill you again.

    Fake Casting: This is the single most important tool in your belt as a caster/healer. Being able to effectively fake cast opens up so many doors and saves important cooldowns like divine favour for when you actually need it.

    What is fake casting? Fake casting is baiting out an interrupt like kick/counterspell by stopping in the middle of a spell being cast before it is finished. If done correctly the kick will land when you are not casting a spell, and the enemy player will have wasted their kick, allowing you to free cast without worry.

    Here is an example:
    https://www.twitch.tv/tenceirl/clip/ObedientArtsyFerretOSkomodo-hbsmxg042y1OGlP6

    in this clip I am being focused by 2 melee and a mage, I am getting low on life and need to heal myself up. Predicting that they are waiting for me to cast a spell and will be interrupting me right away, I cancel it fairly early in the cast, baiting out both CS as well as the monk kick, and am able to heal myself up further. This allowed me to survive and eventually win the engagement.

    Here is another example of how effective positioning allowed me to easily predict the kick coming from a rogue:
    https://www.twitch.tv/tenceirl/clip/SavageNiceLionYouDontSay-qqss4ahY6gLlJiVc

    in this clip, the rogues are focusing another player, then one of the rogues break off to come attack me (I am standing away from them, forcing them to choose between attacking me or the other target). It's a pretty safe bet that the rogue is going to either try to kick me or cc me, so I stop casting when they get close, baiting out the predicted kick, and allowing myself to cast without worry until the kick is back up.

    Some players have a macro to specifically /stopcasting, but personally I just move my character. Its less efficient but more flashy. Either work, but one is arguably more demoralizing.

    Some general fake casting tips:
    • Players generally always kick the same way, remember/take mental note of when they kick and prepare accordingly.
    • It's okay to get kicked, you won't be able to fake everything.
    • The hardest player to fake cast is the player that will not kick you. It is very easy to fake yourself to death. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and hope they don't kick you.
    • I barely bother faking windshear honestly. Counterspell and kick are the main ones to look out for since they lock you out for so much longer. I can generally survive a windshear lockout without much issue.
    • Fake casting is a feel thing, you don't really have time to think "is this when I should do it?" it has to become autopilot and it will. Be patient.
    • More haste makes fake casting easier, as it creates more urgency for the opponent. This is partly why I like haste.
    Unfortunately it's incredibly difficult to effectively illustrate these two topics through examples/text. The easiest way to learn is to jump in and get your feet wet. You learn this stuff through trial and error as well as experience. There's a reason the players that have been around the longest are the most effective at this stuff, it really just takes time. You got this. I believe in you.

    Have fun!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Leek

    Leek Grandfathered

    Messages:
    3,051
    Likes Received:
    748
    Trophy Points:
    113
    i wanna ask, how does https://www.wowhead.com/item=17943/fist-of-stone?bonus=6710 fare against your mace?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2021 ---
    *sees judgement+ holyshock damage*
    i am a dps class.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Sketchbag

    Sketchbag ❤️OVOXO Super Moderator

    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    3,061
    Trophy Points:
    173
    I like how each line flows into the next.

    :mad: "Thx" now I want one :mad:
     
  6. Kakakaka

    Kakakaka Member

    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    151
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Probably my only complaint on this guide is the lack of emphasis on positioning, and the slight emphasis on fake casting in a non-indepth manner. Fake casting is something that should only be done when forced to do it, and for obvious reasons. Positioning properly allows you to either A. avoid this risk completely, or B. put the enemy in an unfavorable place. In B., hpal has the tools necessary to make that place very unfavorable with their numerous instant casts, divine favor, and bubble. There is always the argument to take a risk-reward gamble, and realistically you can take these gambles and play extremely well. But, the point is that it is often unnecessary and perhaps hurting gameplay.

    I understand that pugs will over extend and line you- and I agree it's a problem with this mindset. Thus why the concept is to fake cast when forced to; I'm sure most healers do this without thinking about what or why, but it is what it is. Adding on, recognizing these scenarios where you must fake cast is what makes someone good at fake casting and healing in general. Strong awareness of the enemy team while healing is often hard to come by.

    Overall, nice guide bro +1 and shared over facebook
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. OP
    tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    I was going to edit it more but unfortunately the site died and then I also needed sleep.

    Also fist of stone currently does not proc.

    To answer the question about my dps remark, I have seen many people prefer to dos and NOT toss a heal. Yes holy can do damage but as a healer priority number 1 is and always will be dispelling and healing.

    Expect refinements and updates now that I can access this again.

    I disagree with your comment about fake casting. Basically every class has an interrupt now and you absolutely cannot rely on instant casts alone to keep multiple people up in an extended period of time. Much like other xpacs yoy WILL be casting flash of light and being able to effectively fake cast especially when melee is pressuring you will not only keep you and others up, but save these crucial cooldowns for when they are more needed.

    To me what sets apart the good players from the great ones is the knowledge and ability to only pop these major cooldowns when they ABSOLUTELY have to. Fake casting is one simple tool that helps with this. I can guarantee when you get good at it and can free cast a lot more, you wont have to pop bubble as soon as a few melee start focusing you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
  8. MartinD738

    MartinD738 dANNN

    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    43
    With regards to HP I thought the same way until I played Wargames and BGs. We found 2.5k HP outside BGs (4k inside) to be the sweet spot. The thing is that stamina scales much better than versatility inside BGs, so ignoring the 6 stam talasites might not always be the best idea.

    With the helm, you really don't need another mana source. In Wargames it is incredibly powerful and you never stop casting in that scenario.
     
  9. Kakakaka

    Kakakaka Member

    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    151
    Trophy Points:
    33
    --
    I understand your point. I tried to include that ideal, but it wasn't communicated very well. Nonetheless, this is still simply a slight difference of opinion. Though, I don't entirely like your example of 'a few melee' since it has a number of innate flaws, such as: what melee? DK+Surv? DK+Surv+Warrior? What are the variables to this scenario? How scared are you in this position? Why and what lead to this scenario? Where are you positioned? Is there a guaranteed way out of this scenario without risk in short and long term? Is your team in a bad spot? How much time do you have? Do you have somewhere to be?

    There are many more questions, but point is that this is what I meant by understanding the risks involved and looking for another guaranteed option. If there is no guaranteed option, I think we stand on the same boat. I just don't like resorting to fake casting or relying on it for the sole purpose that it's unreliable- especially in your 'a few melee' scenario, where normally there are guaranteed options that put your team in a better spot.

    In my earlier statement, regarding the short cooldowns available to deal with kicks, I was mostly referring to ranged kicks. Something I did not mention in my earlier statement whatsoever was a general condition to take risks, which although obvious, many do not think about: when your team is down in some fashion, taking risks is almost always going to be the best route to take if there is not an obvious way to go forward. This aligns well with my earlier statement regarding being forced to fake cast, but it wasn't really imbedded. To give light on the scenarios I imagine, I always think from a wargame stand point because it always applies to pugs as well, and even if the teams are unbalanced- the rules and concepts always apply or else they wouldn't work in wargames (on paper and from experience).

    This response is obviously meant to be informative, it's not aimed at you, Tence; you're good. Sorry for the wall of text.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. OP
    tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    I didn't mean it as a personal attack either, I can only attest and speak about my own experiences so far with regards to games and situations.

    The note I made about fake casting being more important this xpac especially is simply because basically EVERYONE has a kick or interrupt now. Previous xpacs have been easier to freecast because you only had to worry about a rogue melee kick, or a shaman/mage interrupt. Now hunters have kicks, warriors, dks, monks, dhs, etc etc and there's a lot more to actively pay attention to. The amount of interrupts you will be micro managing has doubled/tripled and as a healer this has made things much much harder imo than last xpac, even with all the new tools available.

    It's very hard to teach concepts like positioning, fake casting, and like you said, risk taking. I do plan on getting back to streaming games periodically and hopefully these games can demonstrate things easier for people just getting into healing. I love healing, and after I tried it, it kinda took over how I played.

    Different perspectives are always welcome since everyone has their own unique playstyle they develop over time! Thanks for the great reply sir.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2021 ---
    I've played a good amount of bgs now to get an idea of the bracket and I haven't run into a scenario so far, even in premade v premade or premade v pug scenarios where that extra hp makes or breaks things (personally). What kills me is either too many stuns/cc/interrupts, no mana, or generally just unlucky enemy respawns. I think I've been 1shot once, and while I was salty, it hasn't happened since then. This is the xpac of team co-ordination if nothing else. I can guarantee you I am just as annoying to kill, even with less hp, than someone with 800 more hp than me.

    Maybe I'm a weirdo but I had this mindset all of last xpac and survived the aimed shot crit meta/boomie burst/etc.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. xanx

    xanx Member

    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    43
    You’ve clearly never seen tence fake then
    edit: Not a diss, tence is one of the few that actually knows how to fake /shrug
     
  12. Zorch

    Zorch Member

    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    103
    Trophy Points:
    43
    It’s beyond weird that apparently not one piece of healer plate is itemized for the only spec that can use it.

    ThinkingFace
     
  13. fungchewuchi

    fungchewuchi Legend

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I tried healing my very first dungeon with my brand new pally.
    Had a good time, did well, and even made a friend! *ponies and butterflies*

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. OP
    tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    so wholesome I love it!
     
  15. accel

    accel Member

    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Upcoming patch brings some nerfs:

    • Holy
      • [With regional restarts] [​IMG] Divine Favor (PvP Talent) cooldown increased to 30 seconds (was 25 seconds) and now increases cast speed by 30% (was 60%).
    • Protection, Retribution
      • [With regional restarts] [​IMG] Word of Glory's healing has been reduced by 20% when engaged in combat with enemy players.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. OP
    tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    WOG nerf only affects ret (which is fine imo, still has solid heals) and the divine favor nerf shouldn't change things much besides making it cast about as fast as flash of light when combined with holy light. Still the go to talent and super impactful. Good to make known though!
     
  17. MartinD738

    MartinD738 dANNN

    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Hey Tence, do you have a good macros for throwing a Crusader Strike at an in-range target? Popping an extra Holy Power without having to tab target to a melee target would be super helpful when low on mana
     
  18. glancealot

    glancealot Member

    Messages:
    2,675
    Likes Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    83
    this is a helpful guide as i am gearing up a paladin. I don't agree with some of the choices, two piece desolation offers 0 vers. Comparison: i think moonglade and vidication pair win hands down because crit is pretty useless for paladin.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  19. fungchewuchi

    fungchewuchi Legend

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    43
    i make tabtarget and selftarget the browser forward n back buttons respectively on the side of my mouse.
    i've no complaints.
     
  20. OP
    tence

    tence Legend

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    163
    point for point I would consider the 11 haste more impactful than 11 verse from the gear. Once you get into playing and in the thick of it you're going to want fairly quick flash of light cast times. This guide is just a jumping off point and showing a set of gear that I found to work quite effectively.

    You're also trading 28 secondary stats for 11 secondary stats, even if its crit.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 5)

Share This Page