Stat Climbing is "Too Damn High!"

[Tom Ganks]

The main reason I feel that we need stat squishes ever 2 xpacs now is because since MoP, stats have exponentially increased over the course of each expansion. In Cata, a dps class would be about 80-100k health upon hitting 85. At the end of the xpac, about 170-200k. It was a large difference, but not nearly the same as now. Here we are in BFA, with 3-4 times the health as a fresh 120, and we haven't even entered the final raid tier yet. WTF is blizzard thinking? Do they like stat squishing? Because from what I know, they have (on multiple accounts) stated how time consuming it is to do so when fixing all the kinks.

In my perspective, each and every stat squish that happens dulls down secondary stats for lower levels and makes classes feel slow and boring until you finally hit 120 and start getting upgrades. And now we're bound for another stat squish (more than likely) along with a level squish (which will do god-knows-what to our twinks; but I agree is necessary for endgame).

/end rant

 

[Mythic Al]

The main reason I feel that we need stat squishes ever 2 xpacs now is because since MoP, stats have exponentially increased over the course of each expansion. In Cata, a dps class would be about 80-100k health upon hitting 85. At the end of the xpac, about 170-200k. It was a large difference, but not nearly the same as now. Here we are in BFA, with 3-4 times the health as a fresh 120, and we haven't even entered the final raid tier yet. WTF is blizzard thinking? Do they like stat squishing? Because from what I know, they have (on multiple accounts) stated how time consuming it is to do so when fixing all the kinks.

In my perspective, each and every stat squish that happens dulls down secondary stats for lower levels and makes classes feel slow and boring until you finally hit 120 and start getting upgrades. And now we're bound for another stat squish (more than likely) along with a level squish (which will do god-knows-what to our twinks; but I agree is necessary for endgame).

/end rant

Yeah, it's frustrating that there's a possibility that most twinks have not only been ousted from BGs (outside of two brackets) but could possibly also get screwed over by level & experience squish that is inevitable. I really don't see WoW being the kind of game to let you level to 200 in one week (or to 200 at all).

 

[Selaya]

That ship's sailed somewhen in 2005, I'm rather afraid.

Compare
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?item=17193
with
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?item=22798

 

[Tom Ganks]

That ship's sailed somewhen in 2005, I'm rather afraid.

Compare
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?item=17193
with
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?item=22798

I made the mistake of thinking the 2nd item was from wrath for some reason lol. So I deleted that reply instantly. But yeah 2500-5500 hp climb still wasn't all that bad. About 2x give or take.

 

[Sin'dor]

[...] Here we are in BFA, with 3-4 times the health as a fresh 120, and we haven't even entered the final raid tier yet. WTF is blizzard thinking? [...]

 

[Selaya]

I made the mistake of thinking the 2nd item was from wrath for some reason lol. So I deleted that reply instantly. But yeah 2500-5500 hp climb still wasn't all that bad. About 2x give or take.

well i mean, it set two really dangerous precedents
(i) a 1.5x delta between the first and last tier of the expansion
(ii) stats scaling exponentially and not linearly with ilvl

 

[Sanit]

That ship's sailed somewhen in 2005, I'm rather afraid.

Compare
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?item=17193
with
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?item=22798

not a great comparison considering the fact that sulfuron is really only used as a reagent for hand of rag.. but i understand where you're going with this

anyways classic is r1 come play

 

[Leek]

Its so that we feel "powerful". Unfortunately that didnt really seem so for BFA. Remember early on in BFA when a legion geared 110 was literally stronger than a fresh 120?

We got so powerful from legion that our health went from 200k all the way to 6 million hp and damage wise we went from doing 10-200k damage all the way to 58 million damage oneshots (my demo lock using Thalkiel consumption)

 

[Selaya]

not a great comparison considering the fact that sulfuron is really only used as a reagent for hand of rag.. but i understand where you're going with this

anyways classic is r1 come play

literally the only t1 2h that came to mine mind (besides, weapon dps is strictly based off ilvl in any case so it illustrates the point just as well)

 

[DeLindsay]

This is a uniquely PLAYER driven problem. Each higher Tier, and subsequent Expansions, Players are expecting to see MASSIVE DEEPS on their Recount (cuz lets face it, Dmg Meters are the only thing that matters to Retail WoW Players). If Gamers today were still fine with small increases that we used to see in MMO's some 12-15+ years ago then we wouldn't have this issue.

Outside of that, you also have to realize how stupid the people are at Blizzard today and how they pander to filthy Casuals who can't do anything unless it's given to them with no effort on their end. They could easily just increase the next Tier by a small percentage, which would have the effect of seeing bigger numbers, but more often a new Tier/XPac is almost like the difference between a LvL 119 in Quest Greens and a LvL 120 in full Raid Gear.

 

[jcochran]

This is a uniquely PLAYER driven problem. Each higher Tier, and subsequent Expansions, Players are expecting to see MASSIVE DEEPS on their Recount (cuz lets face it, Dmg Meters are the only thing that matters to Retail WoW Players). If Gamers today were still fine with small increases that we used to see in MMO's some 12-15+ years ago then we wouldn't have this issue.

Outside of that, you also have to realize how stupid the people are at Blizzard today and how they pander to filthy Casuals who can't do anything unless it's given to them with no effort on their end. They could easily just increase the next Tier by a small percentage, which would have the effect of seeing bigger numbers, but more often a new Tier/XPac is almost like the difference between a LvL 119 in Quest Greens and a LvL 120 in full Raid Gear.

"They could easily just increase the next Tier by a small percentage,..."

And you've just stated the root cause of the problem without realizing it. The instant that power increase is a multiplicative function (such as a percentage) instead of an additive function, you're going to get exponential growth. The only difference is how fast the exponent grows. And unfortunately, they have to make is multiplicative instead of linear because to do otherwise would make the increased power at higher levels negligible to the point of unnoticeability.

 

[Tom Ganks]

"They could easily just increase the next Tier by a small percentage,..."

And you've just stated the root cause of the problem without realizing it. The instant that power increase is a multiplicative function (such as a percentage) instead of an additive function, you're going to get exponential growth. The only difference is how fast the exponent grows. And unfortunately, they have to make is multiplicative instead of linear because to do otherwise would make the increased power at higher levels negligible to the point of unnoticeability.

Only due to secondaries stats. But what can counter this is having increases in only primary stats upon a new tier after secondaries reach a threshold where it’s not too little, but also not too much. Maybe add some unlockable talents or item traits to make gameplay more interesting.

IMO leveling is the main problem here. And with the upcoming level crunch, it would be counter productive to level just to get to a point where it has to be done again. Expansions should only provide new zones, story and content. Not levels anymore.

 

[Selaya]

[ ... ]

Expansions should only provide new zones, story and content. Not levels anymore.

^.

however, as the above, that precedent was set in 2006.
as for delindsay ... well, reading comprehension 101 is hard, i know - the precedent for all of these things were literally set in 2005-2006 at the latest.

 

[DeLindsay]

as for delindsay ... well, reading comprehension 101 is hard, i know - the precedent for all of these things were literally set in 2005-2006 at the latest.

Huh? 12-15+ years ago is exactly the time period of 2005/06, even though my comment wasn't made to reflect any of your posts, it was my own opinion based off of my own playing of MMO's for the past 20 years+ of my life considering I'm about the only person on this site who isn't a kid, or barely in their 20's now.

 

[Selaya]

You said that 2005 was different.
My point is that it wasn't.
2005 was the time the ship's sailed (when the precedent of crass stat explosions was first set).

 

[DeLindsay]

You said that 2005 was different.
My point is that it wasn't.
2005 was the time the ship's sailed (when the precedent of crass stat explosions was first set).

I would argue that Vanilla WoW (in it's entirety) was the final voyage of slow stepping vertical Progression. Pretty much all MMO's since then, including WoW itself, have fallen victim to the notion of MOAR DEEPS that, as I said previously, is 100% Player driven. WE are the cause, today's MMO is the unfortunate result.