Rogues with no haste ?

Discussion in '19s Q&A' started by Farmerjack, Dec 17, 2018.

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  1. Farmerjack

    Farmerjack Scuffed

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    I see a lot of you rogues out there with 0% haste or 2% haste then I see rogues with pure haste as a secondary. What’s the reason for this ? Just the play style ? I don’t usually play a rogue so I honestly have no clue. Just looking for some input .
     
  2. inoobupro

    inoobupro Grandfathered

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    pvp has always been about burst not sustained

    in literally almost every pvp game ever(not just wow)

    nothing new

    and versatility even adds direct damage reduction as icing on top
     
  3. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    At 19, the only rogue spec where haste scales well is assa. Any other rogue spec just wants a shitload of vers supplemented with some crit. Haste doesn't scale well for outlaw at 19, so there's no point.

    What rogues are all about in this bracket is being disruptive. Be annoying, and be smart about it. Getting good saps, set up kills on EFC, taking care of objectives etc. It's oversimplifying a bit, but yeah, haste is just not worth it unless you go assa.
     
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  4. OP
    Farmerjack

    Farmerjack Scuffed

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    I completely understand that but how much of a burst can you have with literally no haste whatsoever ? I would assume a little haste would help with energy regen, which would mean better burst .
     
  5. barb

    barb Veteran

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    It's not burst if you need energy regen to be taken into account

    You kill in a stun/opener or afk
     
  6. Mcdonaldsman

    Mcdonaldsman Member

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    The most legitimate answer I can give you is that the only benefit outlaw rogues gain from haste is energy regen. I have not tested auto attacks, but from a few resources I do not believe they do. As another note, the rogue GCD is not increased by haste (In outlaw, at the very least). This puts vers/crit simply at a better position than vers/haste.
     
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  7. Psilocybine

    Psilocybine Grandfathered

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    Until you get over 25% haste you wont notice a real difference. Since that is not easily done, as a low level rogue, its avoided.

    Btw the difference between 1% and 20% haste at lvl19.....6sec full 0-100 regen at 1%, 5sec at 21%, plus the troll racial brought it down to 4sec.
     
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  8. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    Rogues at 19 are put into some very specific roles by the moves that are present. Rogues typically have a high potential value while stealthed. Sap provides great control. Cheap shot is one of the few reliable stuns in the bracket. A stealthed rogue could be anywhere, which forces the team to prepare for the rogue at any time, even if the rogue isn't there. When a rogue comes out of stealth - they are usually quickly targeted and brought down. DoTs will prevent them from stealthing for a while, and they are fairly easily kited without a sprint/shadowstep to get back to the target. So when a rogue is opening, its very good for them to finish the combat quickly and get back in stealth. That brings sap, cheap shot, and the constant threat of a stealthed rogue back into play.

    With how fast rogues usually die if caught out, as well as how strong healers are (if you don't kill a healer shortly after cheapshot and 1 kick, the rogue is in trouble) - rogue damage is usually focused on a 6-8 second window. In this window, you *might* get an additional SS if you go full haste. Full haste will probably get 1 additional ele force proc. You're better off going with verse (straight damage increase, especially notable for ele force) and crit (has the chance to burst high and end fights).

    Theres some more I can talk about the game theory behind building to do the same every fight (reliable in pve), versus taking more risk of losing to gain a better chance of dominating. But ultimately, rogues have high potential in stealth, and are most threatening for the 5-8 seconds after stealth. After that, they are fairly vulnerable to being kited or DoTed to keep them out of stealth. Even with the more balanced builds (as opposed to pure glass cannon - see my or bestworld or psilocybine rogue armories) and a healer, a rogue fighting on the front lines of a team fight like a surv hunter/warrior is not going to be near as useful as those classes, and not as useful as a rogue in stealth.
     
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  9. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    Haste shouldn't increase ele force procs since it's RPPM based.
     
  10. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    Haste directly increases the RPPM as opposed to creating more proccable events (which does not change the # of procs with RPPM). Ele force has a base RPPM of 10. With 10% haste, it has a RPPM of 11.

    More in depth post here: https://xpoff.com/threads/how-rppm-works.81584/
     
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