Neebler
Veteran
Thought this might be a cool idea for a rogue-centric guide series. The format is pretty simple - I bring up a situation that rogues encounter frequently, and we talk about how to deal with it optimally. Though I'm writing the series, I want it to be more of a discussion. This means any concept is open to criticism or additional info, particularly from other established rogue mains.
So let's get into it: Dealing with Mage AoE!
All three mage specs are effective against rogues, but two in particular are especially threatening: Frost and Arcane. Even at level 19, there's a significant amount of complexity that comes into play when dealing with mages. For now, we'll talk about dealing with their AoE.
Frost and Arcane mages in particular can spam AoE abilities, and although the meta has recently shifted to favor Fire/Arcane mages, we still need to be aware of Frost's tools. Fire doesn't really bring anything into the mix other than baseline mage abilities that concern stealthies.
Let's go over threatening AoE abilities, and the abilities that compliment them:
Blizzard (Frost): Has a cast time, channeled spell, large range, targeted area, slows
Arcane Explosion (Arcane): Instant, covers area surrounding mage, no slow, highly spammable
Frost Nova (All Specs): Instant, roots in place, larger radius than Sap**
Blink (All Specs): Instant teleport, syncs well with Frost Nova and Arcane Explosion (more on this later), decently long CD
Arcane Torrent (Blood Elf Racial): Instant, silences (irrelevant), breaks stealth, smaller radius than other abilities but still a threat
All characters (Trinket): Obvious, will explain more in a bit.
These are the biggest abilities to worry about pertaining to mages trying to get you out of stealth. While Blizzard, AE, Nova and Torrent are the only abilities that can physically remove you from stealth without targeting you, Blink and Trinket make them much stronger in some situations.
Let's go down the list of mage abilities and how to play around them:
Playing around Frost AoE: Blizzard
If a frost mage is aware that the rogue may be lurking in their general area, it is likely they will begin to start casting Blizzard frequently. Blizzard is dangerous because even though it has a cast time, its location cannot be known until it is cast. It essentially creates an invisible landmine when the cast starts, and at the end of the cast, you may or may not 'step on it' depending on where the spell lands. It also has range, which means the mage can safely cast it far away from you.
A good mage will have a general idea of where a rogue should be depending on the situation, and when they'll be there. Additionally, if the rogue repeats the same pattern of movement, a good mage will also pick up that pattern and punish it. Getting hit by blizzard is very bad because it also has a built-in slow, so it is easy to follow up and punish the rogue. Furthermore, getting caught out in any situation can ruin a crucial play and set your team behind.
As rogue, you have to be intelligent with your movement. Think about where the mage wants you to be, and then don't be there. This can be tricky, because sometimes the place you need to be is also where the mage knows you'll be. In that instance, it comes down to each step - being in the right place, but stepping through it carefully and creatively. However, if you're just generally moving through a broad area to get into position for something, you have more freedom to stall your movement, or take an unexpected path.
These scenarios can be even harder if the mage has recently seen you get a restealth, because their blizzard guess will be far less random. You've gone from being potentially anywhere on the map to a far more specific area.
In this moment, you have to get into the 'mental chess' aspect of playing a stealth class.
1. The mage saw you get restealth
2. The mage will assume your intended goal/objective in that moment
3. The mage will reposition, and an AoE ability will be cast in an area and at a time that is most likely to obstruct your goal and get you out of stealth
Mental chess means identifying this process at step one, rather than reacting to it at step 3. It means reading the situation and formulating an advantage in your mind before the enemy player even makes a move.
But even if you realize the situation at hand, you need to know how to execute around it optimally.
Some examples (varies with situation):
• Completely change your direction after getting restealth to contradict the direction the mage saw you traveling beforehand
• Stall/stutter your movement after stealthing
• Take an odd path that skirts around the AoE threat without wasting too much time
• Pursue another objective of equal advantage to your team (if possible) that is away from the area the mage believes you will be (this is very situational)
• Etc.
Keep in mind that steps are a highly valuable resource on rogue, since you have no movement tools. Always use them wisely, and if standing still or taking an alternate will make a 1 yard range difference for landing a necessary Cheap Shot or Sap, then don't do it.
Playing around Arcane AoE: Arcane Explosion
Arcane Explosion is a very, very scary ability to deal with as rogue. The reason for this is that it's an instant cast, and it spawns out of the mage's body, so they can simply run around and spam it. Furthermore, when combined with Blink, the mage's effective AoE threat zone is massive. If they aren't having any luck catching you, they can simply blink to where they think you are and almost instantly pop you out.
However, if played correctly, you can make it much harder to an arcane mage to abuse Arcane Explosion and catch you out - but it's going to require some good timing, awareness, and patience.
The best friend of the rogue vs. arcane mage is the global cooldown, and your second best friend is the mage's required positioning to catch you. Each GCD is a small window of time for you to get a sap on the mage or your intended nearby target.
As rogue, you'll have to do some fancy and carefully-timed footwork to get in position in between explosions. Even if the explosion isn't hitting you, it's controlling your positioning (zoning), which is still a very effective tool in limiting a rogue's movement. If you're too greedy, you'll get punished. Be patient, be cautious, and the time will come for you to make your move.
If needed, you can sap the mage if they're protecting your objective, and then immediately swap CC to your intended target.
If the mage either knows or guesses that you're ahead of them in stealth, they will very likely use blink to gain position and then arcane explosion again. Once again, the GCD is on your side. All you have to do as rogue is target the mage, jump/turn or strafe, and spam sap. The instant they blink into range, they will be on GCD, but your sap won't. They'll instantly eat CC for getting too close to you, and you'll be free to continue on your way.
...Unless the mage has trinket, but we'll get into that more later.
Playing around General Mage AoE: Frost Nova
Frost Nova is arguably the most threatening spell a mage can cast vs. a rogue. It's an instant AoE ability that will root you in place on a reasonably long cooldown. However, the reason why it's so dangerous is that it has a 12 yard radius.
This is significant because sap only has a 10 yard radius, so even if you sap a mage, they can immediately Trinket/Nova, which has a very high chance of rooting you out of stealth unless you position perfectly. Mages will usually go for this due to its effectiveness, but it only works if the player has very fast reaction time.
While it's generally hard to deal with this combo, it can be played around - and furthermore, the reward for playing around it is huge. If the mage misses their combo, they have blown two extremely valuable cooldowns for nothing.
So, here's what you can do:
1. Get comfortable sapping at absolute max range while moving.
There's a 10 yard radius around any target you want to sap, so get used to skirting along the very edge of that radius, getting your sap off, and immediately peeling away from the invisible circle. This technique will require some practice, but if done correctly, the time it takes for the mage to react and trinket will barely warrant you enough time to travel >2 yards away and out of Frost Nova's range. NEVER, EVER stand still after sapping a mage that has trinket. You will get Nova'd out if they pop it.
If you get good at this, it's actually an excellent way to punish mages, as they will often reflexively Trink/Nova combo to try and catch out a rogue. Abuse this habit to your advantage, but only if you're confident you can pull it off.
2. Don't sap the mage if you don't have to.
Pretty straightforward. If you see a mage out of combat, or otherwise feel compelled to sap a mage, keep in mind that you're taking a huge gamble if their trinket is up. Sometimes it's simply better to not sap a mage and go for an alternative objective, unless the mage has extremely high priority in that moment. Even then, this will be situational.
---
If a mage Blink/Novas on top of you, you're probably in trouble unless you happen to be at max range to sap AFTER they blink, which is really unlikely. Even if you get the sap off, they can immediately do their Trink/Nova combo unless you're at that magic distance and already moving in an optimal direction along the edge of that radius. Arcane mages can also follow up with this if you sap them out of Blink/Arcane Explosion, and Blood Elf mages can do the same with Torrent. There's not a whole lot to discuss about Torrent beyond that, it's just an extra stealth-popper with a decent range and a long-ish CD.
All I can say about this scenario is that try to play around the possibility that a mage with all their CD's up and an educated guess about where you are is pretty likely to get you out of stealth if they're determined and have the skill to pull it off. The best counter to this, or really ANY threat you'll deal with as a rogue is to keep a close check on what the threat currently can and cannot do, and find a way to adjust your play accordingly while still pursuing your objective.
That's all for now, may go back in and edit this at some point. Hope you guys find this helpful...I know it's a lot to read! As stated before, any additional knowledge/feedback is welcome.
I'll see about adding more to this series over time.
Thanks!
- Neebs
So let's get into it: Dealing with Mage AoE!
All three mage specs are effective against rogues, but two in particular are especially threatening: Frost and Arcane. Even at level 19, there's a significant amount of complexity that comes into play when dealing with mages. For now, we'll talk about dealing with their AoE.
Frost and Arcane mages in particular can spam AoE abilities, and although the meta has recently shifted to favor Fire/Arcane mages, we still need to be aware of Frost's tools. Fire doesn't really bring anything into the mix other than baseline mage abilities that concern stealthies.
Let's go over threatening AoE abilities, and the abilities that compliment them:
Blizzard (Frost): Has a cast time, channeled spell, large range, targeted area, slows
Arcane Explosion (Arcane): Instant, covers area surrounding mage, no slow, highly spammable
Frost Nova (All Specs): Instant, roots in place, larger radius than Sap**
Blink (All Specs): Instant teleport, syncs well with Frost Nova and Arcane Explosion (more on this later), decently long CD
Arcane Torrent (Blood Elf Racial): Instant, silences (irrelevant), breaks stealth, smaller radius than other abilities but still a threat
All characters (Trinket): Obvious, will explain more in a bit.
These are the biggest abilities to worry about pertaining to mages trying to get you out of stealth. While Blizzard, AE, Nova and Torrent are the only abilities that can physically remove you from stealth without targeting you, Blink and Trinket make them much stronger in some situations.
Let's go down the list of mage abilities and how to play around them:
Playing around Frost AoE: Blizzard
If a frost mage is aware that the rogue may be lurking in their general area, it is likely they will begin to start casting Blizzard frequently. Blizzard is dangerous because even though it has a cast time, its location cannot be known until it is cast. It essentially creates an invisible landmine when the cast starts, and at the end of the cast, you may or may not 'step on it' depending on where the spell lands. It also has range, which means the mage can safely cast it far away from you.
A good mage will have a general idea of where a rogue should be depending on the situation, and when they'll be there. Additionally, if the rogue repeats the same pattern of movement, a good mage will also pick up that pattern and punish it. Getting hit by blizzard is very bad because it also has a built-in slow, so it is easy to follow up and punish the rogue. Furthermore, getting caught out in any situation can ruin a crucial play and set your team behind.
As rogue, you have to be intelligent with your movement. Think about where the mage wants you to be, and then don't be there. This can be tricky, because sometimes the place you need to be is also where the mage knows you'll be. In that instance, it comes down to each step - being in the right place, but stepping through it carefully and creatively. However, if you're just generally moving through a broad area to get into position for something, you have more freedom to stall your movement, or take an unexpected path.
These scenarios can be even harder if the mage has recently seen you get a restealth, because their blizzard guess will be far less random. You've gone from being potentially anywhere on the map to a far more specific area.
In this moment, you have to get into the 'mental chess' aspect of playing a stealth class.
1. The mage saw you get restealth
2. The mage will assume your intended goal/objective in that moment
3. The mage will reposition, and an AoE ability will be cast in an area and at a time that is most likely to obstruct your goal and get you out of stealth
Mental chess means identifying this process at step one, rather than reacting to it at step 3. It means reading the situation and formulating an advantage in your mind before the enemy player even makes a move.
But even if you realize the situation at hand, you need to know how to execute around it optimally.
Some examples (varies with situation):
• Completely change your direction after getting restealth to contradict the direction the mage saw you traveling beforehand
• Stall/stutter your movement after stealthing
• Take an odd path that skirts around the AoE threat without wasting too much time
• Pursue another objective of equal advantage to your team (if possible) that is away from the area the mage believes you will be (this is very situational)
• Etc.
Keep in mind that steps are a highly valuable resource on rogue, since you have no movement tools. Always use them wisely, and if standing still or taking an alternate will make a 1 yard range difference for landing a necessary Cheap Shot or Sap, then don't do it.
Playing around Arcane AoE: Arcane Explosion
Arcane Explosion is a very, very scary ability to deal with as rogue. The reason for this is that it's an instant cast, and it spawns out of the mage's body, so they can simply run around and spam it. Furthermore, when combined with Blink, the mage's effective AoE threat zone is massive. If they aren't having any luck catching you, they can simply blink to where they think you are and almost instantly pop you out.
However, if played correctly, you can make it much harder to an arcane mage to abuse Arcane Explosion and catch you out - but it's going to require some good timing, awareness, and patience.
The best friend of the rogue vs. arcane mage is the global cooldown, and your second best friend is the mage's required positioning to catch you. Each GCD is a small window of time for you to get a sap on the mage or your intended nearby target.
As rogue, you'll have to do some fancy and carefully-timed footwork to get in position in between explosions. Even if the explosion isn't hitting you, it's controlling your positioning (zoning), which is still a very effective tool in limiting a rogue's movement. If you're too greedy, you'll get punished. Be patient, be cautious, and the time will come for you to make your move.
If needed, you can sap the mage if they're protecting your objective, and then immediately swap CC to your intended target.
If the mage either knows or guesses that you're ahead of them in stealth, they will very likely use blink to gain position and then arcane explosion again. Once again, the GCD is on your side. All you have to do as rogue is target the mage, jump/turn or strafe, and spam sap. The instant they blink into range, they will be on GCD, but your sap won't. They'll instantly eat CC for getting too close to you, and you'll be free to continue on your way.
...Unless the mage has trinket, but we'll get into that more later.
Playing around General Mage AoE: Frost Nova
Frost Nova is arguably the most threatening spell a mage can cast vs. a rogue. It's an instant AoE ability that will root you in place on a reasonably long cooldown. However, the reason why it's so dangerous is that it has a 12 yard radius.
This is significant because sap only has a 10 yard radius, so even if you sap a mage, they can immediately Trinket/Nova, which has a very high chance of rooting you out of stealth unless you position perfectly. Mages will usually go for this due to its effectiveness, but it only works if the player has very fast reaction time.
While it's generally hard to deal with this combo, it can be played around - and furthermore, the reward for playing around it is huge. If the mage misses their combo, they have blown two extremely valuable cooldowns for nothing.
So, here's what you can do:
1. Get comfortable sapping at absolute max range while moving.
There's a 10 yard radius around any target you want to sap, so get used to skirting along the very edge of that radius, getting your sap off, and immediately peeling away from the invisible circle. This technique will require some practice, but if done correctly, the time it takes for the mage to react and trinket will barely warrant you enough time to travel >2 yards away and out of Frost Nova's range. NEVER, EVER stand still after sapping a mage that has trinket. You will get Nova'd out if they pop it.
If you get good at this, it's actually an excellent way to punish mages, as they will often reflexively Trink/Nova combo to try and catch out a rogue. Abuse this habit to your advantage, but only if you're confident you can pull it off.
2. Don't sap the mage if you don't have to.
Pretty straightforward. If you see a mage out of combat, or otherwise feel compelled to sap a mage, keep in mind that you're taking a huge gamble if their trinket is up. Sometimes it's simply better to not sap a mage and go for an alternative objective, unless the mage has extremely high priority in that moment. Even then, this will be situational.
---
If a mage Blink/Novas on top of you, you're probably in trouble unless you happen to be at max range to sap AFTER they blink, which is really unlikely. Even if you get the sap off, they can immediately do their Trink/Nova combo unless you're at that magic distance and already moving in an optimal direction along the edge of that radius. Arcane mages can also follow up with this if you sap them out of Blink/Arcane Explosion, and Blood Elf mages can do the same with Torrent. There's not a whole lot to discuss about Torrent beyond that, it's just an extra stealth-popper with a decent range and a long-ish CD.
All I can say about this scenario is that try to play around the possibility that a mage with all their CD's up and an educated guess about where you are is pretty likely to get you out of stealth if they're determined and have the skill to pull it off. The best counter to this, or really ANY threat you'll deal with as a rogue is to keep a close check on what the threat currently can and cannot do, and find a way to adjust your play accordingly while still pursuing your objective.
That's all for now, may go back in and edit this at some point. Hope you guys find this helpful...I know it's a lot to read! As stated before, any additional knowledge/feedback is welcome.
I'll see about adding more to this series over time.
Thanks!
- Neebs
