US Regarding Wargames

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Tom Ganks

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What's the problem here? I'll tell you the problem.

The past couple of months have been rough for pushing 20's. But we HAVE been pushing on, don't question that.

Win or lose, it's just a game. Before I ruffle your feathers and you say something like "Yeah but I don't want to keep losing." I'm not a fan of losing either. Who is? I doubt you will adapt to my positivity so easily, but I'll give it a shot.

Wargames= Competition= Interaction=A Funner PvP Experience= Recruitment


Now why is "Interaction" red? Because the success of this bracket depends on this key link. Without a healthy and stable relationship between the players, the rope gives-way.

Guilds are also governed by this. Nobody wants to hear your shit if your team is losing. When you spread your negative opinions, you cause your guildies to lose interest. Thus, the guild falls apart or becomes casual. Instead of complaining, how about strategizing and giving advice for a teamate to up their game? Or at least keep it to yourself.

Don't let their ducking opinions get to you. You have just as much ability to continue these games as anyone else.

And a lot of this has recently been caused by 19's entering the 20-29 bracket. Before you get your panties in a bunch, hear me out. I am COMPLETELY all for 19's trying our bracket. But don't take your pride with you. For Wargames to be completely enjoyable, players need to stop giving up. If your team isn't good enough after positively trying to work with them, find another. Don't blame the bracket for your losses, blame the people who are hopping back over to another bracket or pugs when they don't get their way.

Even when you lose a close game, it's still a win. The opposing team isn't going to rant about winning, they are going to want to play more. And their enjoyment fuels recruitment and events. They aren't thinking, "Oh, we beat them, I hope they give up!".

Don't let a couple of bad apples rot your view on the bracket. Now it doesn't make me necessarily joyful when a game is lost, it just makes me want to re-strategize, and if necessary, replace a team member if he/she/it(?) lacks the skills required.


There have been troubles in 'Nagaz with Attitudez' and I wish for it not to be this way. From an outside perspective, I looked up to the guild, and I wanted to be a part of it. And it is a guild with GREAT players. But we are falling apart over teams that are not even fully comprised of our Guild. I can almost guarantee that the most prestigious guilds of 19s had to overcome their obstacles with recruitment and consistent wargaming/training. And that the downers became outcasts, forever exiled to the fate of pugs. Believe it or not, skill is not the only thing that helps a team win (although it certainly helps). It's also the psychological impact your teamates make when they keep their heads up.

______________________________________________

@Burg you are doing a great job, and you have not only satisfied the portion of positive players on your teams, but also the countless players on the other side of the field. They don't see the disagreement on the other side (unless it's streamed), they see a person who went out of their way to make their nights less lackluster.

And I hope to encourage others to not depend on 1 or 2 people to organize these events to please your needs. If everyone had the same mindset as that, we would be at square one.​
 
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You put it very well and I agree with you 100%.

I feel like <NWA> was just going at a downhill spiral with all the egos people have gained overtime, I just didn't like the direction the guild was going in. I take full blame for it, as I gained an ego myself. I don't quite understand where all the egos came from, but they were there. We use to be a guild of friends that just liked to group and play together, whether it be in just pugs or wargames. All that mattered is that we all had a good time. It just wasn't that same environment anymore.

With <NWA> I just started to feel very foolish. I try to promote this bracket and I used <NWA> as a huge thing to help me push it. I'm sitting here on the forums saying "We need to get more people to join in on the 10v10 premades" while I had people from the guild coming on the same post I just made telling other players from the other team to "Go kill yourself" and nonsense like that.

Don't get me wrong, yes I left <NWA> and gave the reigns over to TKO, but I am FAR from done trying to push the bracket I play and love. I will be making a new guild with ßißle, and we will be making a team out of it.

Once again, thank you for this post. I hope other people see it the same way.
 
These are real - id plebmades, it is not a guild. This is also the 20-29 bracket, most of the people who play here you can't expect too much from them, keeping that in mind, that does not mean you have to be negative and down right nasty to others in the call. The best way to help others is when you play with them watch what they do and see if they are playing correctly, then you can help them positively and nicely, about what they need to do in that situation. In the end, in real - ids the only player you can count on is yourself, that is why it is nice to have a positive group where you can learn together and connect and help each other.
 
We need to help everyone get on the same competitive level with the same knowledge and i believe these games will be more fun for everyone but to do that we need to kill this negative energy and lose any egos anyone may have and just think towards our goals!
 
GGs today, even though there were some people that left. I was proud of the fact that even though some people left, the majority of you guys stayed until the end. Setting up games takes quite a bit of effort when you have to get 20 individuals together, with the right number of healers and dps, ensuring everyone is in curse, etc. As such, it is much easier to leave than to start. In the future, these games should be treated as a privilege and not as something you can take for granted. Regardless of the scores, the plebmades have been of a much higher quality than pugs, and I would much rather invest the time to set them up as opposed to waiting in a 20-29 que. It is understandable that some are upset at the teams and the general trend that alliance has been winning. In the future we can work on having more balanced teams. If the player pool gets large enough we can have drafts, or even two separate games going. In its current state, there are a limited amount of players that tend to only want to stick around for 1 or 2 games. Hopefully more twinks get involved so we can further improve the quality of the games.
 
I wanna refrain from using the term "GG's" as i dont want it to be of offense to anyone who takes it as a shove in the face or as a sarcastic comment.

But the fact of it all is that these definitly are GG's, these games ARE a privilige and are definitly of higher quality than pugs in th bracket.

You can rage if you lose, you can run to 19s or some other bracket but the thing is not many brackets are trying to have consistent wargames every night.

I am fine with trying to organize these with robby or burg but I can't do that if not everyone sticks around for the matches.

Leading and forming groups of 20 individuals to sit down and play at the same time for 1 hour is a really dificult task. Show your support and support the games.


One proposal i have is to take anyone who has horde and alliance toons to group up and roll. This will divide these players into either faction and could ensure for more balance.


Regardless of what everyone is feeling about these games, the fact of it all is that we have had really good games when we see the right players, the ones dedicated to play these games on each side and the ones willing to work with their team.

We need to keep pushing the competitiveness of the bracket because it has great potential!
 
I Afk'd because I was tired of setting up war games just to lose. It might have been a little far but still I was just sick of it and had to stop playing. And also @Burg what's the point of leaving a guild to make a new guild with the same people? Also, apparently to you having a will to win is also having an ago, sorry you like losing than I guess.
 
Nicemaxbro said:
I Afk'd because I was tired of setting up war games just to lose. It might have been a little far but still I was just sick of it and had to stop playing. And also @Burg what's the point of leaving a guild to make a new guild with the same people? Also, apparently to you having a will to win is also having an ago, sorry you like losing than I guess.
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As I said, I don't like loosing too, try and find another team. I do understand that you did propose this AFTER you had left the game. But still, you could have at least endured the rest of the game. You left at 0-1, leaving your entire to team to play handicap for the remainder of the game. You WERE doing a great job in gameplay/call-outs, but you were also doing a good job at cutting others down. I can't stress what you've endured since I've only been part of 2 games as opposed to 6-8 (or however many) you went through. But they're plebmades and you tore some of the guild apart because of it. Games like these require training for some teams, while other teams may be more prepared.
 
These games are to get individuals to play better so that they can join a team and perform at high capacity.

Its prep for guild v guilds
 
When one team loses, SOMETHING went wrong and SOMEONE is at fault - whether it's one person or all 10. Do you not invite the better players with bad attitudes? Or do you limit the games only to the select players you like?
 
Recluse said:
When one team loses, SOMETHING went wrong and SOMEONE is at fault - whether it's one person or all 10. Do you not invite the better players with bad attitudes? Or do you limit the games only to the select players you like?
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Not sure what you're getting at. But last night it took us almost an hour to get both teams filled, at the point the preference really just went to who's online.

What people need to understand, is that there are people with varying level of premade experience in these games. They aren't meant to be taken so seriously. The idea is to expose more people to the scene in hopes of building something bigger. It also gives people a chance to try out new classes, strats and comps.

I've been a party of this community for a long time, part of what made it great was the comradery of the bracket. You can have a competitive environment without the toxicity. Without a change in attitude, plebmades and premades will die off. Then everyone can go back to pugging into 29 premades full of ferals and bm monks.
 
The whole point in these plebmades was to get everyone in and able to play. This includes people who usually play but throwing them on classes that they wouldn't normally get to play in a competitive guild game or whatever you would like to call it. I know on Horde side not many people got the point. Yes we want to win, but in plebmades it won't happen every time.

@Nicemaxbro, the point in this new guild is to go back to how NWA use to be. Just some friends that are trying to have fun. NWA was not that way anymore. People's attitude changed and that's the moment things went downhill for us as a guild. Everyone agrees with that and it's better that parties split. Hopefully this also gets two separate teams out of these guilds for more competition in the future. And as for the people that are jumping ship, those are the main ones that I have either played with forever, or just don't want to have to deal with you as a GM. Not to sound mean at all. but true.
 
The reason we have plebmades is because we have collectively decided that the bracket is shit and we CHOOSE something better. AFKing after it takes an hour to get them going is just disrespectful and selfish. You not only let your team down, but also the team you are facing, just to feed your own ego. By AFKing you essentially waste 19 other people's time and effort that was put into getting the games going. It is different with pugs and 19s where you are just waiting in ques and should be treated as such.
 
Tiger said:
The reason we have plebmades is because we have collectively decided that the bracket is shit and we CHOOSE something better. AFKing after it takes an hour to get them going is just disrespectful and selfish. You not only let your team down, but also the team you are facing, just to feed your own ego. By AFKing you essentially waste 19 other people's time and effort that was put into getting the games going. It is different with pugs and 19s where you are just waiting in ques and should be treated as such.
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I told him this, but he won't listen. He will try to justify why he left and thinks it is ok. You might as well talk to a brick wall, you'll get just as much accomplished.

Some people just don't take other people into consideration when doing something.
 
Don't stress it though. I'm not making this a direct @thread. TKO can form his own group if they can tolerate it. I'm just stating that growth is impossible if everyone doesn't have fun in the process.
 
Duddley said:
Hey there. Going to give my two cents for what it's worth. No I didn't read this entire novel of posts, I read some so if I speak out of line don't mind it.

The wargames are really bad. Not even fun at all. Yes, egos are a thing in 20s now. Big whoop. People should take pride in their play. But afk'ing a wargame is just pure bullshit. I got onto TKO about this so I hope he understands as he apologized. But I'm just as fed up with it as he is. I think we need to stop doing war games and leave it for pugs. My opinion, these games are worth 2 hours of setting up. Do as you want, but I'm leaving the wargame scene of this bracket. I hope it does continue well and people find it enjoyable.
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Have fun in pugs?
 
Duddley said:
Hey there. Going to give my two cents for what it's worth. No I didn't read this entire novel of posts, I read some so if I speak out of line don't mind it.

The wargames are really bad. Not even fun at all. Yes, egos are a thing in 20s now. Big whoop. People should take pride in their play. But afk'ing a wargame is just pure bullshit. I got onto TKO about this so I hope he understands as he apologized. But I'm just as fed up with it as he is. I think we need to stop doing war games and leave it for pugs. My opinion, these games are worth 2 hours of setting up. Do as you want, but I'm leaving the wargame scene of this bracket. I hope it does continue well and people find it enjoyable.
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I don't think that wargames need to drop all together. I do think they people need to realize that the plebmades are more or less practice. They were taken way to seriously by some, which is fine I guess. But instead of trying to shit talk people and think that you are "teaching them" you need to understand that it is the 20 bracket, a lot of us are newer to the premade scene and don't get to play it near as often as other brackets.
 
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