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Discussion in 'General WoW' started by Neebler, Jul 3, 2020.

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  1. Neebler

    Neebler Member

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    Hear me out.

    I think by now most of us know what happened today. Whatever you felt about Byron, it's always a wakeup call when someone familiar to us takes their own life.

    While Byron's death is really fucked and still strange to process right now, I couldn't help but find myself thinking about my community, our community, us. I thought a lot about what people are exposed to in this online environment. I thought about who we really are, pressing the keys and clicking our mice as we stare into the glow of our screens. Beyond the personas we show to others online, behind the things people say about us, behind how we present ourselves and perform in this big, virtual environment. Who are we outside of this niche, competitive slice of an MMORPG?

    I thought about the things I've seen people type, the things I've heard people say. Some people try as hard as they can to harm, and others try as hard as they can to seem invincible, impervious to pain. In our drive to improve, to conquer, to become more important than our competition, we offer up our psychology and emotions to be slaughtered - or worse, lock them away to rot.

    And all the while, we struggle in our own ways, feel our own pain and live with our own weaknesses. And in this world, we dare not hint at what they are, or how they may make us feel. To be vulnerable is to lose, and to lose is unacceptable. People will viciously defend their strengths, conceal their vulnerabilities to seem stronger than everyone else - to not give a fuck what anyone says, and to ridicule those who are affected by their words, further asserting their place in the hierarchy.

    And thinking about that, this system that morphs us into these vessels of secret pain, where we perpetually feel hurt and suffering in isolation, that just makes me fucking sad.

    Ultimately, we aren't a persona, a username, a score.

    We are people.

    We are people who experience trauma, and try to cope by inflicting trauma upon others. We are people who suffer from the pain we try so hard to conceal. We are people who desperately need to speak, to share the things that torment our minds every day, but struggle to get it out. Maybe we don't think that anyone would care. Maybe we are afraid of the optics, we've become too 'strong' to suddenly become vulnerable. We fear that our weaknesses will become weapons to be turned against us. If we seem fine, then we ARE fine. That's the lie we tell ourselves and the world.

    So, here's what I'll say to all of you, to all of us:

    It is okay to feel pain. It is okay to admit that we hurt, that we feel weak, abandoned, resentful, inferior, betrayed, that we dearly miss someone we've loved and lost. It is okay to admit that something someone said to you really fucked with your head. It is okay to admit that the anger we show towards others in the world may come from an anger towards ourselves. Our feelings are real, our feelings matter, and no one, no matter how much of a hard-ass they claim to be can take that truth away from you. In fact, it's a truth they likely grapple with themselves.

    And furthermore, it is okay to express this pain to others. Everyone, no matter who they are, deserves someone who will listen to them. It can be a stranger, a friend, a family member, a therapist if you are able to get one.

    I challenge you to feel. Feel your pain, accept that it is there, and that it's alright for it to be there. I challenge you to share it with someone you trust, someone who will listen, if not a therapist, then someone who will offer some of their time just to hear you out. And lastly, I challenge you to believe that no matter how fucked you think you are, or how fucked you think the world you live in is, that there is ALWAYS hope. There is so much complexity in life, moving parts that constantly change...and the potential for change is what makes hope possible.

    If you aren't feeling like yourself, if you're having a hard time, don't feel ashamed. We make mistakes, we say and do bad things, but all people are flawed, even when we're at our best. We may never know what could have saved Byron, but please, if anyone reading this is feeling suicidal, don't fucking give up. Talk to someone, anyone. I'm not going to link the same old hotline for people to call when it's already too late. If you are hurting RIGHT NOW, find someone and fucking talk to them. And if you aren't feeling suicidal and know someone who might be, even if you just have the slightest hunch, give them a chance to let out their demons.

    It can be as simple as:

    "Hey, are you doing alright? Just checking in. If anything is bothering you I'm here to listen."

    And if someone asks you these words, someone you trust enough to talk to, then be brave. Be real with yourself, be real about what you're feeling and let go of all these dumbass expectations about coming across as tough. Healing begins with pain. Sharing it, owning it, and working through it.

    I'll even talk to you if you need someone to listen to you. I don't twink anymore, but I'll check my inbox on here when I can if you want to leave me a DM. I am obviously not a mental health professional, and ideally you should seek professional help. I can't promise that me listening to you nor the responses I give you will solve whatever is troubling you. But if you have absolutely no one who will listen to you, then I will, and everything you tell me will stay between us. I promise.

    Maybe some of you know me and hate me. Maybe some of you have no fucking clue who I am. Maybe this is all a big tryhard essay or meaningless meme to you. All of that is fine. Whatever you think, I hope you're feeling alright today. And if you're not, please hang in there and strongly consider my words. You deserve to feel, you deserve help, and you are a person just like the rest of us.

    Thank you.

    - Neebs
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  2. Chops

    Chops Soccer Dad Moderator

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    <3
     
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  3. ZenwØw

    ZenwØw Member

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    @Neebler UR INSIGNIA WILL B YUMMY !
     
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  4. Puempeekstoh

    Puempeekstoh Grandfathered

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    tldr
     
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  5. Devzxje

    Devzxje Dev Nguyen

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  6. Daltert Moropi

    Daltert Moropi Member

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    Just because you have a fancy title, different look, and more achievements than others, doesn’t mean you’re invincible to the reaper.

    ... I don’t know if this story that I was told long time ago might be relevant to the post, but I’ll tell it anyways.

    “ya might not be the best of the best and people above ya might take advantage of ya weaknesses on the high ground, but there’s still people below ya and look up to ya on the low ground.

    Now, these people on the low ground have the ability to move mountains while the ones on top can’t. Once the low ground people move to a different location, the people in the high ground either gotta move with them by climbing down or risk staying and be affected by potential famine caused by their greed due to the low ground people controlled the resources and the high ground couldn’t.

    so, don’t worry about not having/being the best out there. Because, someone out there, (might not know who), but someone out there is looking up to ya for guidance and him/her/it thinks and thanks ya for being their side, even when they have it worse than you do.”
     
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  7. Trigs

    Trigs Member

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    neebx.png
     
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  8. lucasyo

    lucasyo 2016 SR slayer

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    wholesome post neebs +1
     
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  9. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    Unfortunately kind words are just that, kind words. The online society is built in a way that if you ever show weakness outside a very tight group, your weaknesses will be abused. It may be because of as simple a reason that the sense of anonymity (hiding behind a screen) gives people the opportunity to say and do whatever with minimal, if any consequence at all (to themselves). That's just the hard truth.

    If it's so detrimental to your health to be online, social media, certain communities etc. Then take a step back. It's not worth it. Look to different things or engage in other communities, cut out toxic people to the best of your ability. Whatever it takes to maintain your own well-being.

    However, if you're a person that doesn't mind holding your cards close (especially when online), then I would recommend that people do just that. If you need to talk, then find a personal safe space (family, friends, a very selective group of people). The faster you realize that this particular space is NOT the MMORPG that you play, or any other entertainment platform (game or not), or the broader use of social media, the better.

    When looking to a friend, I believe it's important that you stop to think, very thoroughly, what circle does this friend belong to. If your common connection is playing a game that you both enjoy, and that's your connection, that's what the friendship is based upon, then that's not deep enough. Even if you spend 80% of your time with them. Time does not equal deep, emotional connection. I believe this to be very important. Don't go to the person selling apples and ask for milk. Find the person that sells milk. Seek out the friend that will understand on an emotional level.

    That's just my take on things anyways.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  10. Druiddroid

    Druiddroid Member Moderator

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    I’ve been a part of the HealthyGamer community for a little while now. I saw the six interviews Byron did with Dr. K. I’ve also listened to some of the stories from people in the HealthyGamer Discord community. I’ve been working on trying to help people with mental health issues.

    The thing I’m learning over time about mental health is that it’s muddy. In some cases, hopelessness makes sense. Suicide makes sense. When one’s life is pain and suffering every day for years, they want to turn the power off. I think it’s important to recognize that when people kill themselves, it isn’t crazy, it’s rational.

    Someone I was talking to and trying to help probably killed themselves last week. I tried my very best to listen, understand, make them laugh, and be their friend. It wasn’t enough. Sometimes, as I’m learning, that’s how it is. The damage over time they experienced was too much and the healing debuffs on them were muting my heals. It sucks, but it’s my reality, and I feel, our reality with Byron.

    Thank you for making this post and doing your part. I hope it helps someone down the line. Much love ❤️
     
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  11. Odell

    Odell Member

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  12. Quackbesteu

    Quackbesteu Member

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    @Iild Hey, are you doing alright? Just checking in. If anything is bothering you I'm here to listen.
     
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  13. OP
    Neebler

    Neebler Member

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    You are right in many ways Bestworld. I also would recommend to anyone who is feeling affected to consider cutting back on games/social media and working on their relationships with real people. Unfortunately it takes some people a while to actually go through with this or internalize it in the first place. It may be because of an addiction, IRL difficulties we don't know about, other psychological issues, etc. So while stepping back is the end goal, and while talking with offline people is better than shallow relationships online, offering some sort of olive branch in our online environment can still have a better impact than doing nothing or choosing to be toxic imo. I've seen it for myself.

    Thanks for your words dude, you always put a lot of thought into what you say and it shows. Having an honest convo about this topic is important no matter what. Cheers
     
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  14. Trigs

    Trigs Member

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    If you are on EU and you need to talk to someone i highly recommend Lopio. He's a nice guy but more importantly he's fucking hot.
     
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  15. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    Lopio is indeed a nice guy.
     
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  16. tence

    tence Grandfathered

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    In a perfect world I would agree with this, but many people that seek refuge within video games and the internet are also the same people that lack fully developed social skills/social circles.

    With that being said, expecting them to make rational, informed decisions about which people would be the best to open up to or not is asking quite a lot. Especially when, for many of these people, they lack a fully developed social circle outside of said game.

    Mental health is hard. Hard because every experience is different, and it's hard enough for most people to see the world outside of their own experiences, let alone try to imagine the depths of pain and suffering others go through/have been through.

    Furthermore, while trolling and internet bullying comes with the territory, at a certain point these individuals need to be able to realize when things have gone too far and when someone is clearly not in a great state of mind. If someone was on a bridge saying they're going to jump, and someone else tells them to jump, how can you be surprised when they go through with it? Theres a responsibility of everyone within a community to know when to provide support or just not respond. The jumper isnt thinking rationally, you as a responder are thinking rationally, do the math people.
     
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  17. Quackbesteu

    Quackbesteu Member

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    On a slightly more serious note, it is sad when anyone kills themselves. Whether you like them, hate them, they're a good person a bad person all of that aside, anyone who takes their own life or gets killed etc, is always sad.
    (There's no two ways about it, that's not me saying killing evil people isn't 'necessary' but it's sad none the less.)

    In relation to Reckful I can remember every stream of his i watched.
    I watched him on legion beta, calling blizzard that time running around on his warrior, watched him play in bfa when he was in a bad place tweeting at twitch to delete his channel, I remember him irl streaming with greek and andy in Greece London and Netherlands and that's about all I watched of him 'live' - I've seen a lot of his youtube videos both WoW related gameplay and non-wow related gameplay. You could tell he was to put in 'plain english' Mentally Fucked.
    Which is sad because clearly people recognized that and still pushed him, it reminds me of those weird kids that would bully disabled people. It's super fucked.
    (Clearly bullying is fucked blah blah don't need to point out the obvious but when it's someone that isn't necessarily able to stick up for themselves properly whether it be because they can't or its just not 'in them' to do so it's clearly more fucked.)

    I thought about this and talked to some people for a few hours after I first heard the news and after speaking to them I think its safe to say with Reckful presuming everything kept going the way it was, it wasn't a better of if he'd commit or not, it was literally a matter of when. Which yes is sad however its the reality. It says a lot about him mentally and also about how people treat people who aren't mentally stable.

    I think anyone who says anything abusive whether it me flaming people over a WSG game or people just talking shit on twitter and twitch or whatever the thing may be, it's never really justified. Clearly with Reckful he entertained a big audience and when there's more people there's a higher chance of there being more fucked people. I think anyone who just sits on reddit or twitter or twitch or any of these things and just abuses people just doesn't really make sense to me. A handful of times I've sat and watched Snowmixy play awful but I don't type in her chat and tell her shes awful because that would accomplish literally nothing.
    (NOT TO COMPARE CALLING SOME1 BAD AT WOW TO TELLING THEM TO OFF THEMSELVES).

    It's sad to say but this won't really change a lot. It won't - It may look like it will for a little bit but humans are naturally fucking stupid. So nothings really going to change properly. Twitch may make some changes and youtube and twitter and whatever it may be, but it doesn't change how humans are.
    Not to mention I feel like with Reckful it wasn't as much people telling him to KYS etc and more so he was mentally unstable and really seemed like he didn't surround himself with the correct people IN MY OPINION (clearly the abuse everywhere didn't help)

    Also he took numerous breaks from twitch and things but kept going back which is stupid. He clearly didn't need the money and it was very very rare that it benefited him in any way. As I said I wasn't necessarily a big fan of his or anything, but anyone taking their own life, being killed or anything along those lines is sad. Very sad.

    Please remember that no matter how tough life gets there's always a reason for you to go on and there's 100% of the time someone who does love you who does care about you but may not be in your DMs or talking to you 24/7.
    There is a light at the end of the Tunnel and there's hope for literally everyone and everything.
    R.I.P Reckful, you changed the online world to say the least.
     
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  18. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    Yes, but not everyone hits a manic depressive state and can still think clearly. It's a general form of advice that I would consider important. in a perfect world, we'd simply respect each other online to the same amount we do offline. Too many people hiding behind their screens.
     
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  19. Neon

    Neon Vulgar display of skills

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    tldr
     
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  20. ohti

    ohti Member Moderator 20s Coordinator <TF>

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    @ yall saying "tldr"
     
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