Odd drops on my second 11 Warrior twink

Sillyturtle

Member
So, geared up the first level 11 on the main account no issue. However, now that I'm leveling a twink on the second account, I'm getting leather and mail drops from TBC bosses instead of the plate drops. I didn't get a single non-plate drop on the first twink. Is this normal?
 
So, geared up the first level 11 on the main account no issue. However, now that I'm leveling a twink on the second account, I'm getting leather and mail drops from TBC bosses instead of the plate drops. I didn't get a single non-plate drop on the first twink. Is this normal?
I noticed this as well, not sure what's up with the loot tables. Someone must of spiked their coffee before the server reset lol
 
It's REALLY strange, because I'm getting cloth and everything now, but so far only from The Rampats. While I was farming Blood Furnace first boss for gauntlets and leggings, I ONLY got the items listed for Warriors (my class).

I wonder if it's specific to certain instances.
 
Seems like your seeing the 'legacy' loot system which higher level characters get: Which is everything from the loot table is visible to be looted (This means every boss will always drop loot). This was to make it easier for people to farm transmogs.

All the 'normal' system does is hide loot that's not from your class from being visible to be looted. This was done some time ago to prevent ninja looting, and the reason why bosses appear to have no-loot when you're soloing an instance on a low level character.

I think every twink would want the legacy loot system because then we don't have to worry about class specs to see certain loot drops (and we'd be able to see useful drops outside our class). The only way I'm aware of this happening is when you're partied with a high level character, if there's another way of activating it that would be some good info to get.
 
Seems like your seeing the 'legacy' loot system which higher level characters get: Which is everything from the loot table is visible to be looted (This means every boss will always drop loot). This was to make it easier for people to farm transmogs.
This was my guess as well. I've done a lot of dungeon runs on twinks and I'm not seeing any unusable drops. Legacy loot is the obvious answer.
All the 'normal' system does is hide loot that's not from your class from being visible to be looted. This was done some time ago to prevent ninja looting, and the reason why bosses appear to have no-loot when you're soloing an instance on a low level character.
I wouldn't put it quite that way. Personal loot just means the drops are tailored to the specs present when it was killed. Dungeons seem to have different rates of drops. A normal dungeon is about 1.8 drops per boss. Legion, for some reason, seems lower, like I would estimate ~1.4 or even less. If you kill every boss with 5 plate classes, you're going to get the same loot, it's just going to be all plate (and cloaks, jewelry and weapons usable by those classes). You're not getting less loot and items aren't being "hidden". This is the whole basis of loot funnelling.
I think every twink would want the legacy loot system because then we don't have to worry about class specs to see certain loot drops (and we'd be able to see useful drops outside our class). The only way I'm aware of this happening is when you're partied with a high level character, if there's another way of activating it that would be some good info to get.
I haven't seen any good analysis on this. My approach has been to use loot funnels like 5-manning a dungeon with 4 11 Fury Warriors and a healer (a druid in my case but a Holy Paladin would give you a fifth plate slot) and just trading loot to the toon I want to gear. It's really tedious though since input broadcasting is disallowed. And it can be really laggy.

Soloing a dungeon would be much quicker because there's not the same setup of putting toons on follow, fixing issues when a toon gets caught on a rock and follow breaks, looting on each toon, etc.

So you could get 2 drops for 1 toon but now you're getting a bunch of weapons you can't use, primary stat items that don't have strength and non-plate drops (assuming you're a Warrior). What's better? A ~30% chance of a drop for your spec or 2 drops, most of which you can't use? I honestly don't know.
 
afaik, legacy loot doesn't change the drop rate, it just adds the other drops. So if you have a 6% drop rate for the piece you want that is unchanged.
 
This was my guess as well. I've done a lot of dungeon runs on twinks and I'm not seeing any unusable drops. Legacy loot is the obvious answer.

I wouldn't put it quite that way. Personal loot just means the drops are tailored to the specs present when it was killed. Dungeons seem to have different rates of drops. A normal dungeon is about 1.8 drops per boss. Legion, for some reason, seems lower, like I would estimate ~1.4 or even less. If you kill every boss with 5 plate classes, you're going to get the same loot, it's just going to be all plate (and cloaks, jewelry and weapons usable by those classes). You're not getting less loot and items aren't being "hidden". This is the whole basis of loot funnelling.

I haven't seen any good analysis on this. My approach has been to use loot funnels like 5-manning a dungeon with 4 11 Fury Warriors and a healer (a druid in my case but a Holy Paladin would give you a fifth plate slot) and just trading loot to the toon I want to gear. It's really tedious though since input broadcasting is disallowed. And it can be really laggy.

Soloing a dungeon would be much quicker because there's not the same setup of putting toons on follow, fixing issues when a toon gets caught on a rock and follow breaks, looting on each toon, etc.

So you could get 2 drops for 1 toon but now you're getting a bunch of weapons you can't use, primary stat items that don't have strength and non-plate drops (assuming you're a Warrior). What's better? A ~30% chance of a drop for your spec or 2 drops, most of which you can't use? I honestly don't know.
I've viewed the current loot systems as such:

Legacy: Each boss drops 1 loot that everyone can see.

Normal: Each player will roll a drop off the boss loot table. If it lands on their spec and class the boss will have loot. Means sometimes no one gets loot, means sometimes everyone in the group gets loot. The odds of you seeing loot off a boss depends on the boss's loot table, and how many items off said boss will show up for you.

Which is to say I don't think speccing arms over fury will increase your odds of seeing a 2H weapon, it just 'hides' any 1H weapon drops from you. I suppose this could be proven or disproven by someone crazy enough to farm a boss hundreds of times in fury and then in arms to see if the 2H weapon drop rate is the same or not. Unless of course someone knows how the loot drops have been coded, that if they decided to go with "This boss as a 25% chance of dropping loot, and then roll from the table of valid items" vs "Roll from the whole table of loot, and if it's a valid item show it to the player"
 
The loot is odd but the drops are abundant, I gave a ton of daggers and swords and set pieces to my brother for an 11 rogue. At this rate I'll have him full geared before I find my damn trinkets
 
I've viewed the current loot systems as such:

Legacy: Each boss drops 1 loot that everyone can see.

Normal: Each player will roll a drop off the boss loot table. If it lands on their spec and class the boss will have loot. Means sometimes no one gets loot, means sometimes everyone in the group gets loot. The odds of you seeing loot off a boss depends on the boss's loot table, and how many items off said boss will show up for you.

Which is to say I don't think speccing arms over fury will increase your odds of seeing a 2H weapon, it just 'hides' any 1H weapon drops from you. I suppose this could be proven or disproven by someone crazy enough to farm a boss hundreds of times in fury and then in arms to see if the 2H weapon drop rate is the same or not. Unless of course someone knows how the loot drops have been coded, that if they decided to go with "This boss as a 25% chance of dropping loot, and then roll from the table of valid items" vs "Roll from the whole table of loot, and if it's a valid item show it to the player"
This should be fairly easy to test if someone has the right setup (I don't, unfortunately), no need to do hundreds of runs. Kill the 3rd boss in Blackfathom Deeps a couple of times with a 2H plate spec (or 5 of those) and he should drop loot every time, since they're eligible for his entire loot table. The murloc skin bag may or may not count (I'd guess does).
 
This should be fairly easy to test if someone has the right setup (I don't, unfortunately), no need to do hundreds of runs. Kill the 3rd boss in Blackfathom Deeps a couple of times with a 2H plate spec (or 5 of those) and he should drop loot every time, since they're eligible for his entire loot table. The murloc skin bag may or may not count (I'd guess does).
I think there's too much evidence against this idea of "hidden loot".

If this were true, sometimes you'd get 3/4/5 drops from a dungeon boss and you just don't. It's always 1-2 in a full group. It seems like dungeons vary in loot rate. My experience in Legion TW seemed to suggest 1 was way more common than 2 compared to other TW expansions.

The evidence is just way more consistent with the idea that the 1-2 drops get allocated to 5 "slots" regardless of the number of players and if there's no player in that slot, there's no loot.
 
I think there's too much evidence against this idea of "hidden loot".

If this were true, sometimes you'd get 3/4/5 drops from a dungeon boss and you just don't. It's always 1-2 in a full group. It seems like dungeons vary in loot rate. My experience in Legion TW seemed to suggest 1 was way more common than 2 compared to other TW expansions.

The evidence is just way more consistent with the idea that the 1-2 drops get allocated to 5 "slots" regardless of the number of players and if there's no player in that slot, there's no loot.
Could just be me misremembering, but whenever I've run in random groups I could have sworn I've seen bosses die and zero loot shows up; and in other cases 3-5 pieces of loot shows up. Though the other caveat is that it likely depends on the type of dungeon being run. WoD being the obvious exception since when you run those solo you always get loot, which makes it obvious that the loot rule for those is different from the other expansions.
 
Could just be me misremembering, but whenever I've run in random groups I could have sworn I've seen bosses die and zero loot shows up; and in other cases 3-5 pieces of loot shows up. Though the other caveat is that it likely depends on the type of dungeon being run. WoD being the obvious exception since when you run those solo you always get loot, which makes it obvious that the loot rule for those is different from the other expansions.
We're in agreement about different loot rates for different dungeons. IIRC the WoD case depends on the dungeon too. I don't have the data but I am convinced Legion drops less loot too. But when I 4-manned Legion TW, I would average ~1 drop per boss. In TBC 5-mans it was ~1.7-1.8 drops per boss.

I don't recall seeing 3 drops from a boss but I'm not saying with 100% certainty that it doesn't happen. I'm 100% convinced I've never seen 4-5.

Remember there can be other factors at play too, like dungeon events that give an extra loot drop for end dungeon bosses. Even the way that Blizard words that is consistent with my interpretation of what's going on with 5 loot "slots".

I had another thought too: some bosses have really small loot tables for certain specs, like the first boss in Underbog is I think 1 item for Fury Warriors. If "hidden loot" was real, you'd see less loot drop for those bosses when you had 4 warriors, as I've done many times. Instead, I've just go ta ton of repeats of that item.
 
Well Hungarfen's loot table is only 8 items to start with, so assuming all things equal it's a 1/8 chance of the pants dropping for a warrior, or 12.5%. So it wouldn't be that uncommon to see them drop multiple times in the same kill with a full group of warriors. Also the odds of three or more warriors landing that 12.5% at the same time is pretty low, but wouldn't be that uncommon for all 5 warriors to miss hitting the pants and the boss coming up with zero loot for the who group.

Though to the point I was going for originally is that the personal loot system Blizzard implemented so far back, I assumed simply made it so that everyone 'rolled' on the boss's loot table, and if it landed on an item that matched your class and spec you'd see it show up. So for a full party of 5, each player rolls a dice on the loot table; this means sometimes everyone missed, or sometimes everyone hit.

Basically I don't believe a spec will increase or decrease the odds of you getting a specific drop. Like say when going for https://www.wowhead.com/item=13505/runeblade-of-baron-rivendare the odds of you getting it are going to be the same regardless if you pick Arms or Fury, because https://www.wowhead.com/item=13361/skullforge-reaver is going to count as a 'miss' for you regardless. The only difference is that the game won't show you the reaver drop at all when you're specced as Arms. Basically I'm extending this logic out to the rest of the loot table, that the times where you kill Rivendare and you see nothing is that your dice rolled on one of the 8 other items on the loot table that are outside your class/spec.

Essentially I'm suggesting that I don't think the programmers went out of their way to change the odds of your dice landing on 'valid' drops depending on spec, and took the easy path of "If your roll lands on an item that matches your class/spec show it, else don't show it."
 
I think there's too much evidence against this idea of "hidden loot".
Oh, my experience is telling me the same thing you are, but it (at least in my case) is based entirely on coincidental perception. I'll take empirical test results over that any day. So, I scrounged up a 60 BDK and went to have a little chat with the Subjugator in Chromie time. In our first round of talks, he was very welcoming and gave me a ring. The second time, he seemed a bit annoyed, and said I will have to make do with just a bag. By the third session of negotiations, I think he had well enough of me, because he only dropped... A murloc fin and a thick-shelled clam? I don't think those count, which means the myth is busted.
 
Seems like your seeing the 'legacy' loot system which higher level characters get: Which is everything from the loot table is visible to be looted (This means every boss will always drop loot). This was to make it easier for people to farm transmogs.

All the 'normal' system does is hide loot that's not from your class from being visible to be looted. This was done some time ago to prevent ninja looting, and the reason why bosses appear to have no-loot when you're soloing an instance on a low level character.

I think every twink would want the legacy loot system because then we don't have to worry about class specs to see certain loot drops (and we'd be able to see useful drops outside our class). The only way I'm aware of this happening is when you're partied with a high level character, if there's another way of activating it that would be some good info to get.
So, that's the strange thing. This is the second level 11 Twink I'm making. I ran the first one through with my 80 Paladin and didn't get this 'Legacy' loot thing. The twink only received the appropriate Warrior drop table.

Now, on the second one, I'm getting all sorts of things I don't want.

How come the first time I did this I didn't get it? How do I turn it off lmao
 
So I thought to myself if the 80 is making it Legacy loot, why not just bring the existing 11 Twink I have on the other account and have him clear the dungeon and replace the 80. That way, it's 2 rolls of loot from the same loot table (Warrior)

Except now I'm getting no loot drops at all. This is utterly bizarre. That's three different outcomes.

1st outcome leveling the first 11 Warrior with my 80 Paladin: Twink ONLY had loot from it's appropriate drop pool. Every boss dropped an item. It was 100% definitely just the appropriate Warrior table, because I had to run Slave pens for a LONG time before the Breastplate of RIghteous Fury woul drop. I got every other item on the Warrior drop table from him more than once before I got the Breastplate.

2nd Outcome, happened while leveling second Warrior twink while I ran it through with my OTHER 80 Paladin as I have two 80 Paladins, one on each account (want a twink on each account so I can always run the opposite account through dungeons): Legacy loot, Warrior was getting loot from every boss, but it was from every possible loot table across all classes. Getting cloth/leather/mail armor etc.

3rd Outcome, happened while using finished 11 Warrior twink to rush the other 11 Warrior (who is not geared yet) through: Only getting warrior drop table, but some bosses dontg drop any loot for either characters. But only getting loot from the Warrior drop table.
 
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