New Hunter Twink - BM or MM ??

Takticz

Veteran
Hello,
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I'm currently leveling a new level 99 hunter. So far, I have played the last 12 years all the hunters as BM, this is really easy for me. All spells are instant, good burst, not too many spells to have time for the neighbor and the action on the battlefield. Much of the damage is done "by the way" through the pet, so you do enough damage while running away ... ;-)
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But in the iPvP almost all hunters play as MM, so I feel. Now I have leveled the new twink as MM and it just feels bad. The important spells have a [loooong] casting time, the pet hardly does not dmg, the burst ist great with double aimed shot and rapid fire, but you [ or I ] cant burst under pressure, especially if a melee is stuck to you.
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Now the $ 1 million question ... what should I do ... ;-)
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Ok the usual answer in Wow forums is now, play what you enjoy ... I know ... but I would really like to know which hunter you are playing and why. What advantages and disadvantages do you see and is the advantage of the MM really so great? Maybe someone knows a good guide for the MM, which allows me to get to know this specialization better ... or maybe it's better to play a worse specialization well than a better bad one ...
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And on the end ... does anyone on the EU- side play the LvL 99 bracket? Pls leave a Btag here.
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Greetings from Hamburg
the grumpy old man
 
Both. Either spec will be better with a BoA weapon enchanted with incendiary ammo, sadly.

MM will always be "better" in PvP for me because blizz absolutely SUCKS at pet classes... the pets specifically. When a day comes that my pet (all pet classes) can navigate a fucking flight of steps i'll try to enjoy BM in PvP again.

If you're dead-set on staying 99 you should take the time to farm up some epic WoD gear and get it enchanted before next patch, according to the PTR it will be getting a very nice buff and wont accept the lower chants anymore.

edit- as for your artifact, "play what you like" cuz not sure it matters too much. I guess MM will get the most benefit from the higher weapon damage of a 160 or so weapon, but im not 100% on that. Like I said, BoA will likely remain "better".

@Merlin will pop in soon and give you the whole rundown on why MM is better, good luck.

Takticz said:
Much of the damage is done "by the way" through the pet
Click to expand...

To be more specific, MOST of your damage is done by your pet, and they're always off stuck somewhere or just running the wrong way. BM is amazingly easy and intuitive but blizz just automatically ruins anything involving pet dynamics.
 
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:eek: .. mm is good becoz merlin doesnt know how to play bm .. i always find pets a nuisance in bg, most of the time i dont know where my pet went, long ago when hunter sites said pets were good against priests .. i dont know what they were talking about .. so i am a hunter that doesnt use pet, except in dungeon which i need to solo

i always build my hunter on 2 things, burst and mobility .. if an expac doesnt provide a hunter with this, i usually do not touch hunter in that expac, the only reason why i came back to hunter now is because i saw a potential for a burst macro .. the last time i played a hunter was the lvl91 expac .. that was the other time a hunter can do huge burst

BM vs MM
in bg, as a mm i kill a bm 100% of the time .. the reason is NOT because they are bm .. most of the time their gears are not as good, secondly the macro is design to throw out 20+k dmg, unless his aspect turtle is up in time, he will die .. i dont usually play my hunter .. only when i keep seeing specific enemy i want to kill will i swap to my hunter .. the hunter i made, is good only every 2 mins .. my full cd is 2 mins, but after 1 min, some abilities are up, and if the enemy i need to kill is not at full health, i will start to go into a burst cycle, if he is at full health, i will just position myself behind my team to tickle the enemy until the cd is over and able to get into a burst cycle again

Ability Cast Time
the 2 sec aim shot is indeed long, but a hunter has enough instant ability to form a good instant macro, just need to string them up according to how you want it to be

When "a melee is stuck to you"
a hunter's advantage is the gap between you and him .. as a hunter i know how difficult it is saying and actually doing it .. all melee class are now given ability to close gap between them and the range attackers .. so, the question is, are you able to down a charging warrior or pally or monk to zero health before they reach you .. wouldnt it be fun to see them literally drop dead at your feet, without you even kiting .. i am not joking .. only the really good players will be able to mitigate such big burst and still have half their health left, thats like 5% or fewer who are capable of doing that .. 95% of the remaining players die, would that be good enough ? oh well .. there is no such thing as an invincible hunter .. also, if you are on full cd, and any enemy gets to you, a hunter is dead 100%

a mm during a 6 sec window period after a sniper shot can temporarily increase all your dmging ability range to 70-72 yards .. a warrior need to do 2 leaps to cover that distance .. this distance depends largely on your mastery stat

concussive shot, disengage and freezing trap are 3 things you need to use very often against these charging melees, especially freezing trap, also engineering profession is a must for hunter, and macro an escape, using disengage, engineering belt, cheetah and skystep if your potion are not on cd, in certain bg, always get ready for high ground where you can launch the glider to escape by flying off .. if you have engineering on your cloak you can too

GEM
an 89 and 99 hunter should gear agil/mast gem .. thats my individual opinion .. i have tested out that using red agil gem alone gives more dmg, eg. aim shot, as compared to using orange 4agil/4mast gem, but as i mention above, i feel more secure having a wider 47 or 48 yard firing range, out of your opponent's hit range, and this requires more mastery stat

CRIT
when i calculate the total dmg i need, i do not calculate the possibility of a crit, a crit to me is a bonus, if it happens fine, if it doesnt then it still will not affect the overall burst outcome, if i know that most players in that bracket are 15-18k health, then i must formulate my 6 sec macro to do over 20+k, it must be a confirm kill .. if i rely on crit, i do not get that certainty, i do not like uncertainty, so i omit crit totally .. i once was the typical hunter who stacks crit, and had hunters with crit well over 100%, when you have 100% crit, you will expect every of your shot to be crit, right ? no it is not, and you will not even crit 50% of the time when it shows your crit stat over 100% so i drop crit completely after that
 
The 5 agi/5 crit gems from the PvP vendor are good too, if you cant find 4/4 gems Merlin is talking about.

edit- definitely over the plain +6 agi gems. Odds are you wont notice 2 yards more range.
 
i have not tried the 5 agil 4 versa yet .. there is a 5 agil 4 versa ? or there is no such gem ? dont know where i saw it before
 
Big thx @Warglave and @Merlin for the answers. The problem is, that you just have to decide which weapon to choose in this bracket. But the answers make it easier for me.
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The most important truth is in the statement, that the MM benefits more from the better weapon. I could have come up with some thinking on my own ... ;-) ... the BM benefits from the strength of his pet ...
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Apart from that, I do not consider the MM to be sooo strong, because it just has to stand up to do real damage. If he is away from trouble and can cast free with all CDs ... yes ... but under pressure the BM feels stronger [for me], because of the pet and kill command. You can running and do dmg. Now, at level 90, kill command makes almost 1000 damage, all 6,5 sek and against enemies with less than 35% life 50% more damage and the pet make permenently damages. That's not as little as I think. I think with enough Mastery and Agi the kill command will damage 2.5k or 3k to level 99. So I hope xD.
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But I'll get the gun for the MM and good ... the rest we will see.
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Greetings from Hamburg
the grumpy old man
;-)
 
there is this post for the same thing .. 99 hunter .. on the 8th Feb 2019 .. i think some of us provide a comparison of unbuff dmg for rapid and aim shot, might be useful as a reference for you .. the OP was from Neekoeh .. under 99 forum ..
EU+US New twink 99 MM Hunter
 
I think incind scope on an epic wod proc weapon will be bis if you can get someone to do that for you. Agi/mastery for both specs and play both. I play rdruid with my partner bm because when we take on 5-6 people and need to kite, her damage output stays exactly the same as when they're standing still. So while we're kiting were taking down 1 at a time til it's back to a 2v3 and we push back in. As mm that just couldn't work in a kite. I also focus my dispelling on the pet so uptime is high. Also in arena bm is king if you're facing twinks that use the pilar.


I think I would play both
 
kidney said:
I think incind scope on an epic wod proc weapon will be bis if you can get someone to do that for you.
Click to expand...

The only one you can possibly do is in iron docks, and getting it done before Tuesday (or next) would be very impressive.

edit- and if you mean proc weapon as in damage proc, there aren't any. Pretty sure. World stuff is untradeable, correct?

Takticz said:
I think with enough Mastery and Agi the kill command will damage 2.5k or 3k to level 99
Click to expand...

I can swap specs and check PvE damage on mine if you like. On some WoD rare that'll take the damage a shot or few...

Kill command toolitip only says 1153 on my 99 BM with 770 AP and 33% mastery, and 9% versatility. Got an almost 3k crit on the cat below Thunder Totem, probably with on or two trinket procs. Only 1k DPS. I use agi proc trinkets, Merlin does on-use mastery because that's how his is set up. He'd show better burst, and likely sustain cuz he stacks mastery.

On the other hand, I pulled 1.7k DPS as MM and had a 4500 non-crit aimed shot when both trinkets procced (cat at 20%).

PvE tho, BG crits are different I believe. Havent spent any time doing them cuz im grinding gear before the patch.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/uldum/Nôk

All that non-socket stuff will be (on the PTR now) ilvl 149 next patch, not 136. Except the blue boots. DAMMIT! :mad:
(not the crafted trinket, those stay the same.)
 
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The incind scope ilvl req is higher than 136 so you can do this post patch, but the trade glitch an incind scope onto a 149 wod weapon sounds better than the boa. I put an incind scope on my partners Venomstrike at 19 pretty easily. At least it's not going to be GFd so theres no rush
 
i thought incend has no ilvl req ? it just need a 110 player to enchant it on weapon right ? thats why people can use that glitch to put it on non BOA bow/gun for even low lvl hunters
 
Hey, while we're on the subject... does anyone know definitively how haste affects cooldowns?

Is it to the decimal or just the whole second? If I have like 4.8% haste my aimed shot refresh rate is 11 seconds. Any lower and it jumps up to 12 seconds. is it actually every point between the two and just not showing that?

Like 11.7 seconds at 4.5 haste or whatever, but just showing 12 on the tooltip? Or does it Only do 11 or 12?
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Merlin said:
i thought incend has no ilvl req
Click to expand...

Yeah, my brain gets stuck in 136 mode. Rings and necks too.
 
if you use addon to see stats, it goes to 2 decimal place .. i think the background calculation is detailed, it does not round off up or down, i had tried using gems to test it .. even though we see a 1.5 sec cast time, maybe its in fact 1.48 sec the ability is refreshed and you can use it again, i believe it is pretty detail background calculation .. why ? its my guess .. i put 1 haste gem or enchant, and sees it change, then another, and another, take quite a lot to make it change 1 sec, so how could we waste so many haste in between the whole process and not benefit from the cast time, doesnt make sense .. so i think when it is 11.7 sec the ability turns white and usable again .. not 11 and not 12
 
Merlin said:
if you use addon to see stats, it goes to 2 decimal place
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know that part. Just interested in the timers tho, cuz I accept "wasted" haste on some items because it (barely) gets me down to 11 seconds refresh on aimed shot. If it's nothing and actually times 11.3 then ive got more grind...

Also, patch drops march 12. Now we know how long we have to get it done. :oops:

edit- I don't really care about the extra 0.3 seconds, I just say "good enough" so I can stop grinding.
 
No you cant trade an incind scope to a hunter like an enchant. Trade glitch or boa only. I would rather use a 149 wpn that drops for free over a 6/6 gun unless you have a ton of gold for fuck ups. The scopes are hard to trade glitch because the cast is so fast
 
6/6 crafted are a lot easier to get than your 149 weapon. Unless you have "a ton of free time for fuck ups"...
 
But i149!!!!

We ran a 110 and 3 99 leather classes that could loot the 1h fist in sky reach. I'd say more often than not we got an epic fist wpn in the 10 runs which was ~30 mins. That was us working out an ideal situation for our druids but maybe 2 99 hunters and a 110 runner could have a good chance at an epic proc per10 of whatever dungeon you needed. Mines, sky reach and docks aren't that bad
 
I agree, sir, that you are right. Impress me. ;)

(but I will stand behind the adjustable secondary stats of the crafted. 'Tis but a scratch.)

edit- hey, im not one to do any of that anyway, but couldn't you conceivably do it to a rank 1 crafted and then upgrade after? I don't think they lose their scope/enchant when you upgrade them... but it has been since WoD so I forget.

And still... it's just 142. BoA are gonna be 139 anyway, just not ideal secondary stats.
 
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