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Discussion in 'Level 10-19' started by Mnkey, Jan 26, 2019.

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  1. Mnkey

    Mnkey Grandfathered

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    With the resurgence of the 19 community there has been plenty of players that I've scene with..questionable item choices. I would like this thread to help people get on the right track for gearing, as well as helping understand the priority of stats that they need. Yes I know the armory exists, but a lot of people on it have GF gear and/or gear that is way too expensive for a lot of people.

    Rules

    1. Link one OR two characters armory pages.
    2. Discuss why you made the gear decisions. Was it gold related, stat priority, etc.
    3. Do not recommend GF gear. You may recommend expensive gear, but give a cheaper alternative. ex) "Shadowfang is BiS BUT Bronze Shortsword is a good alternative.

    4. If you know that you're BiS, please refrain from being a tool and linking your armory. Please only do so if you have a legitimate question on your stat priority/enchant decisions.

    I'll start first!
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Mnkey

    I was wondering whether or not my focus on Stam >Int > Vers > Crit was best for pugs, or is going more haste/vers better overall?

    Thank you!
     
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  2. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    Great initiative.

    For your shaman, usually int > verse > haste for resto. Verse is simply super powerful, as it boosts damage, healing, and reduces damage taken. It also improves ele force damage (where int does not). Haste is next as it increases HoT/DoTs, lowers GCD, and reduces cast times - all great things. It also increases the RPPM for Hidden Satyr and Ele Force to make them proc more often. Crit is generally last. Its nerfed down to 150% damage in pvp, and is mostly helpful for trying to burst through heals - which isn't really a high priority for resto shaman. Crit heals and satyr/ele force are nice, but don't help as much as the other two secondaries.

    The value of stam is subjective and doesn't really fit into a stat priority. You want enough health to survive a rogue opener. You want enough health to live long enough to get a heal off. If doing wargames, enough health to survive being suddenly focused. But you don't want to stack it too high to the detriment of other stats. Gloves reinforcements are great value. Using Green Lens over spellpower goggles extreme is a good option. Defending/Returning champion is a solid trinket option that gives you a little bit of dmg/healing boost too.

    My suggestions for you to try out are...
    • Consider switching more to haste over crit. Green lens of aurora, Heirloom shoulders, heirloom weapon, bracers, shield. Its not set in stone, but give it a shot and try it out.
    • Consider using Defending/Returning Champion over AGM. AGM is great for FCing, but honestly the combination of 7stam, 5verse, and a much lower CD active make it preferable. If you don't already have the STV heirloom, you ARE eligible to get it on your 19 since you have AGM already. Just need one more chest on the toon with AGM to unlock it.
    • Consider using Insignia as a trinket. While the 7 stam is nice, the main reason to use insignia is that it is a 2min CD over the 3min CD of medallion. If you often find yourself wanting to trinket a cheap shot or something - the reduced cooldown may be useful.
    • Your Boot and Cloak enchants don't stack. There a detailed section on this in the 19 quick start guide, but basically with your current setup you will have 110% speed in caster form (cloak and boots dont stack to the full 12% they should) and you'll have 132% in ghost wolf (your boot enchant doesn't stack with ghost wolf, but cloak does). Consider switching bots to Minor Speed, which stacks with both the cloak enchant and ghost wolf for 112% caster and 142% ghost wolf. You can also switch the cloak to be something else if you feel like you would prefer int/stam over the 2% movespeed.
    • Get a new cloak. Cape of the brotherhood has 3verse/2haste and sporid cloak has 3verse/2crit. You'll get more secondaries than the heirloom, and better ones.
    • Consider +3SP to bracers (depending on how much stam you have elsewhere and your ability to survive key things). I'd normally also recommend stats (tooltip says 1, but gives 2) - however I believe stats is getting a nerf to actually be +1 in 8.1.5.
    • Consider switching rings to http://www.wowhead.com/item=20426/advisors-ring and BG Crate/Random Dungeon Satchel rings of the aurora. GFd argas rings are good and the most int you can get short of the GFd Black Widow Band. Dropping 1int/1stam for secondaries is probably a good deal - but again, its a fairly minor difference.
    • BG crate replacements. This one is usually pretty obvious and usually just takes time. I'll include it anyways just so its stated. Your weapon/shield (and possibly new bracers/rings) can benefit from BG crate blues. Either of the aurora or adaptable (pure verse).
    • Finally, the most important thing. You can get a LW reinforcement kit to get +1 armor on your legs. This is 100% necessary and the key to being the best twink.

    I hope that helps and covers everything. I try to include all the BiS non-GFd gear in the 19 quick start guide, but sometimes concessions are made to keep it simpler. And I don't necessarily have the hands-on experience with each class/spec to know what the stat priority should be. If you have any suggestions, or if anyone posts some detailed reasoning in here - then I'll update it accordingly.

    https://xpoff.com/threads/19-quick-start-gearing-guide-bfa.79275/
     
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  3. shenshuli

    shenshuli New Member

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    Here is my rogue.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/nazgrel/chianja

    I've gotten to this point by deciding to spend as little gold as possible. The enchants are from years of farming mats on my two enchanters.
    I focused on vers for the survivability.

    But any suggestions on gear changes are welcome.

    I hope I read this thread correctly.
     
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  4. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    Rogue stat priority is generally agi > verse > crit with very little haste. Unfortunately rogues are most useful the first 6-10 seconds after unstealthing, so haste doesnt really have time to do much.

    Theres generally 2 schools of gearing rogues. First (and cheapest/easiest) is glass cannon, going for max agi/verse. Second is going for a more balanced build with quickblade gear. A lot of the better rogues I know go with a balanced set. They also have key glass cannon pieces for when they need to open on an enemy EFC with stacks - but their balanced set is their general set. You've got a most balanced set already, so I'll focus there.

    With that in mind, here are my suggestions:
    • Switch haste/aurora gear to crit/quickblade gear. Heirloom shoulders are a very easy swap to crit ones. All those aurora pieces should switch too, but those may take time to replace, you're fine with those until you get the BG blues of adaptable/quickblade. Consider https://www.wowhead.com/item=151421/scorched-blazehound-boots for easy to get boots.
    • Ideal rings are BG crate/Dungeon satchel of adaptable/quickblade. Your rings are fine, but keep an eye out for ones with better secondaries (more verse).
    • You can tweak several items to squeeze an extra verse or two out of things. Its going to be extremely minor in terms of upgrades - but keep an eye out. Bracers can be 3verse/2crit. Gloves can be 4verse/3crit. Dungeon satchel belt can be 4verse/3crit (and possibly 4/4 next patch?). The aforementioned rings can be 3verse/2crit.
    • The ideal trinkets are going to be the new BfA warfront trinket (6agi), and then one of the verse trinkets (touch of the void or returning/defending champion). If you don't have a 120 to farm the warfront trinket (its easy to farm over the course of a week or two, just do warfronts, warfront dailies, and the faction invasions or w/e they are called) or 2 of the verse trinkets - then I would say use the insignia over the mark of tyranny. They offer the same stam, but insignia means your trinket is on a lower CD - which can be very useful as a CCd rogue is generally dead or can't secure the kill. So a lower CD insignia to get back on target is a good thing.
    • Weapons are good. You can optionally use a shadowfang (expensive/rare) or bronze shortsword (cheap AF) in the offhand for pure agility.
    • Any of the BG crate blues can also be adaptable (pure verse). I usually talk about quickblade because they are more common, but adaptable pieces are usually better if you get lucky enough.
    • Ghostly strike isn't usually taken considering the 6-8 second timeframe where we are usually most useful. Its not bad, but it takes a GCD and some energy away from other moves - the other two talents are more popular. Test em all out and pick the one you like best.
    If you have the time/gold to look at more glass cannon options...

    • Gloves of the fang are farmable and have 7agi/7stam
    • Dark leather pants are pure agi and can be enchanted with the MoP LW leg enchant.
    • Forest Leather bracers with 4 agility.
    • Maybe dark leather chest/boots - but you've got decent options there already.

    Overall it looks pretty solid though.
     
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  5. sïlentfart

    sïlentfart New Member

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  6. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    I don't know the stat priority for holy, but I'd guess int > verse > haste.
    • BG crate bracers when you get em
    • Switch to boar's speed (or another stam/speed hybried) on boots to get 2stam AND speed. If you do that, consider changing cloak to int/stam as the cloak enchant doesnt stack with it. Or go with Minor Speed to boots, which stacks with your cloak AND the NE 2% racial.
    • Replace the ring without int. BG crate or dungeon satchel.
     
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  7. Potatosoup

    Potatosoup Veteran

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    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Shankngank

    Not a pure AP build but hits about as hard due to having 19 Verse, the verse also reduces damage taken which is quite nice in addition to the high HP of the build. Only thing I might consider is getting a SF for offhand, but up until now that's just been a gold issue. I have done over 517 bg's to collect this RNG crate gear so far. It seems to work well as I am 1v1ing boomkins, mages, and all other classes, and it's really RNG based on who wins sometimes due to procs.

    So far I'm debating on using Fang gloves instead of the scouting, but I honestly can't tell which is better due to the added bonuses from Versitility. Also, my legs give better than the crate ones because of the fact that I could put an enchant on them. But sometimes I wonder if just using the dark leather legs for straight AP would be better.

    All in all at this point i'm looking at specific slots, and wondering what to switch out to perfect the build, and not give up too much survivability, but keep it at a sweet point stat wise so I can still 1v1 the more OP classes.
     
  8. Knightfall

    Knightfall Member

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    @Mnkey

    Following up behind @necroaqua 's recommendations, I'd also like to toss the +2 Int/+1 Vers shoulder enchant in to the mix. It's sort of a toss up, but worth mentioning since a lot of people can get it and never realized they could. The best way is to check your main for Sons of Hodir reputation. If you played a bit in Wrath it should probably be exalted. The rep vendor in Storm Peaks sells it for negligible gold and your main can apply it to shoulders and mail it.

    I also recommend an armor kit on your pants. For non exploit pants (BoPs) I believe the best you can do is Medium Armor Kit. I use the + 1 armor cause I'm too much of a pussy to do the pants exploit, even if no one has been banned ever for it lol.

    I have largely used @necroaqua 's gearing guide as a base for most of my new twinks, since I leveled all my GF'd ones during the Great Depression. If you want to compare gear and ask any questions about mine in comparison to yours I'm more than happy to do so. I'm really digging your commitment with the double Seals of Argus. My shaman is listed as "Tarra" in my signature. Love your transmog btw, all hail sex goats.
     
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  9. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    Most of the more complete rogues I know have 3-4 sets.

    1. Balanced. Tends to focus on verse with quickblade/aurora gear. High agi/stam pieces are also an option. Generally ups up 1.6-1.7k HP depending on exact gear. Your set does a very good job of being a balanced set.

    2. Glass cannon. While its often the starter/cheap route to gearing a rogue - the full rogues tend to have a set too for when its needed. Opening on EFC with stacks or other people on O (CC/heals) that allow you to focus on damage. Dark leather pants are an easy option. Bronze shortsword offhand is good. Pure verse/agi trinkets. I'm guessing dark leather chest/boots are actually not as much damage as yours, using 2.5 verse = 1 agi napkin math.

    3. FC set. HP is nice for when you find yourself FCing. Trinkets with stam are great. You can optionally get shoulders/legs with different enchants. Cloak that has some stam on it (sporid cloak?).

    4. Stealth set. This one is pretty optional. Have a second pair of boots with minor speed and second cloak with Gift of verse to squeeze out max movespeed to cross the field. Those can optionally be part of your FC set too. And then catseye ultra goggles which gives you the edge in stealth sap battles. Just remember to switch back before opening.


    So ultimately the answers to your questions:

    1. Gloves of the fang and scouting gloves are really pretty even. With ele force getting nerfed, the value of verse may drop a bit, but they are still pretty even. I've seen people going both ways.

    2. I'd have dark leather pants for the glass cannon set anyways. Try them mixed into the balanced set to see if the extra damage is worth it to be your goto or if you would prefer full balanced.

    3. Likewise, shadowfang/bronze shortsword are pretty good offhands, but you give up a bit of balanced stats. I'd say use bronze shortsword, and then maybe replace it if you get an adaptable weapon.

    4. I'd also suggest getting the new agility trinket from BfA. I'd use that and returning champion - though insignia has its uses.
     
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  10. Infomerc

    Infomerc Grandfathered

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    Hi, all. This seemed a little weird: BWB req lvl 20, +7 int. US-Baelgun AH right now. (Seller wants 1Mg, which seems silly).
    I don't know how all this stuff works, but I didn't think it was enough to make a new thread.
     

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  11. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    I don't know how they got a level 20 version of it. AFAIK theres no legit way for that to happen. It is either at the default unscaled level (which isn't 20), or it scales to whoever opens the box (which can only be obtained on 100 characters IIRC).

    So unless I've forgotten a way to get it, or it has started dropping again - they've gotten a GM to restore an item in a way that makes it scale or something. So its stupidly rare and probably worth more than 1m.
     
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  12. Infomerc

    Infomerc Grandfathered

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    Well, the weirdness doesn't stop there. The ilvl < rlevel, and the +7 int is lower than the normal one at +10. I have seen it before where scaling put the rlvl just below or equal to the ilvl, but I don't recall ever seeing ilvl< rlvl. Maybe that glitch caused the scaling code to give a negative "boost" to the int.
     
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  13. Twinku

    Twinku Grandfathered

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  14. jwl

    jwl Famous WoW Personality

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    Are the booty bay rock rings any good still?
     
  15. Restoshaman

    Restoshaman Member

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    Had this shaman since BC, have quite a bit of GF'd gear and also luckily grabbed the legion set while I could. Have barely any of the new items enchanted yet, and I have no clue about BFA new items, what would you replace on this guy?

    I do have other options for neck and trinkets too, just logged out in the poverty Boas.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/frostmourne/Dirtyheels
     
  16. necroaqua

    necroaqua Dedicated Guide Author

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    I believe arms warriors like verse and crit. With that in mind...

    • A lot of your gear is warforged/titanforged felfire gear. The secondaries aren't always great, but they typically have an extra stam and maybe str. You may want to open up the dungeon journal (shift j) and compare to see what dungeon options would give you. You may prefer additional verse/crit over 1 stam or 1 str. This is pretty subjective. Helm is a definite keep. Rest are up to you. IIRC gloves and boots have some decent crit/verse dungeon options. The heirloom legs (with crit) can also get an enchant, which probably makes them better.
    • Get mark of the hidden satyr on neck.
    • Change cloak to Sporid Cloak (or if you want haste, cloak of the brotherhood). Can go with gift of verse (if using minor speed on boots), +1 str, or +stam enchant.
    • Get 3str or stats enchant to bracers. Stats is likely getting nerfed in 8.1.5, but is currently 2stam/2str.
    • Get str to gloves.
    • Get either minor speed or a 2stam + speed enchant like boar's speed.
    • Argas ring is very good. A 2nd demon band is better. A crit/verse dungeon ring is a side grade if you want more secondaries.
    • PvP trinket is good for the faster cooldown. Defending/Returning champ is best for other slot. You can also consider the new 9stam trinket, 6 verse trinket (touch of the void), or new crit trinket. Depends how much you want to trade tankyness for damage.
    • Executioner's sword is great. Eventually replace with a BG crate blue 2h weapon. There are a few ilvl 25 BoE blues as well like gargoyle's bite - but those are rare. I think 8.1.5 will have dungeon items be at ilvl 25 too, so don't stress too much about finding something else.


    Gonna focus on the grandfathered gear for you. Gearing guide in my sig should cover the regular things. Verse and haste are the desired stats.

    • LFH w/ chant is grandfathered and really fucking cool. We can get 300 engineering now, so the green lens (aurora) will be better. Or spellpower goggles extreme for pure int. Def keep that hat for the swag.
    • Inferno robe is still really good. Gives a ton of int. Switch to glorious stats enchant. You can go with full fang set for a lot of int as well...not sure how inferno robe + 4pc fang set compares.
    • Felchain stuff is GFd. Its not amazingly good secondaries though. I'd say most will be replaced by fang gear. Gives you the set bonus. You can also get a big stam enchant on BoE gloves.
    • Invasion mace is good. I don't remember if it has an extra int, but the secondaries are meh. You might replace it with a BG crate blue with verse/haste.
    • Shield is really good and GFd. Keep and use.
    • Check your bank for other possible GFd items. AGM. Black widow band. Talbar mantle. Anything higher than ilvl 24. Might be something there.
     
  17. Restoshaman

    Restoshaman Member

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  18. Gixxer66

    Gixxer66 Member

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    At the risk of ridicule here's my rogue https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/ghostlands/ctlaltdelete

    This is my 1st 19 Rogue and any feedback would be appreciated.

    I have a set of "Scouting Trousers of the Quickblade" in my LW's mailbox to put the Leg Enchants on. I have a slightly better of bracers that dropped for me last night 2 / 3 Crit / Versa.

    Weapons I know I need to sort out, help with these please - Had a Blue BG crate dagger drop but it's Weapon Damage is less than the current set up.

    Rings are an issue - had a green BG Ring drop but I figure 8 versa over 3 Agi with haste / crit is better?
     
  19. Knightfall

    Knightfall Member

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    Good morning Gixx,

    While I'm sure some would "ridicule" here on the site, I think you'll find many of us to be more than excited to help out someone new to the bracket or new to the class. With that said, let me offer some suggestions where I can.

    The first thing that stands out to me is that you are running Assassination. Now you certainly can run it, but for the 19s I highly recommend playing Outlaw as the viability is much higher. Assassination brings little to the table in terms of personal enjoyment or damage in 19s + you're missing core abilities that make the spec stand out against Outlaw. The best kit and the best damage come with Outlaw. That being said, if you are going to run Assassination then I recommend seeing @necroaqua 's BFA gearing guide for your best weapons for Assassination and Outlaw. You can honestly lose the dagger offhand for Assassination at this level, as you don't have any abilities that require daggers as Assassination in the 19s and your damage will suffer with daggers. Only use them if you are running Blindside (meh).

    Off the top of my head, the top budget weapons I can recommend to you will definitely be Bronze Shortsword (w/ Elemental Force). Double bronze shortsword is also a great start for a burst/glass Outlaw rogue build. If you are running Outlaw then I recommend either double BG Crate Blue Weapons (Adaptable or Quickblade) or BG Crate Blue Mainhand and Shadowfang offhand (sub Shadowfang with Bronze Shortsword for budget). Again, if Outlaw, I've found the most balanced build that I prefer to be double BG crate blues. If you'd like you can see my rogue in my signature for a reference.

    I'm going to go over a few things I see on your character that are up for speculation. I say that because I'm not 100% sure what build you want to run or if you will stay the spec you are so hopefully these tips help out!

    To begin, I'd recommend picking up a pair of Gloves of the Fang for a few reasons. Ultimately they will be your BiS, but being that they are BoE they will also allow you apply +7 stam with Glove Reinforcements if you decide you want more survivability (a high level must apply this then mail it to you 19). I also go with +4 Agi like you do, but overall they are an all around greater pick than your current gloves due to primary stats. For now, your gloves will be just fine!

    From the looks of it, it appears you are going for a well rounded build. Given this, I would actually consider swapping your legs to Dark Leather Pants. Normally they are a part of the glass build, but given that you already have a pretty well rounded foundation you should try experimenting with these to give yourself a bit more damage. If you decide you need the extra stamina you can always switch back to the pants you are wearing now.

    Regarding the Rings question in your statement-- the only rings worth swapping out to for Deep Fathom will be BG crate blue rings. Believe it or not you can actually get lucky and get a green ring that is higher statted than a blue, but that is very rare. I've seen a couple that had higher secondary stats, but greens are almost always 3/5 + secondaries compared to a blue's 4/6 + secondaries. If you get a Quickblade (1crit/4Vers) or an Adaptable ring that are blue then I'd swap out the Deep Fathom Ring because of its lack of primary stat. A Blue BG Aurora ring should only be used if it is 1haste/4vers. Also, I presume the BG green ring you got is Fireflash based on the stats you were asking about? Fireflash is generally the worst combo you can get and should be avoided whenever possible on any slot.

    Aim for a BG crate blue chest of the Quickblade or Adaptable.

    Try out Forest Leather Bracers for more damage. Again, you will sacrifice stamina for these but given the set up you have now I think you may find the extra damage more appealing.

    For trinkets you can swap out either of your current ones for a Touch of the Void or Dusk Powder for more damage at the cost of stamina once again. Defending Champion/Returning Champion are good damage substitutes that also don't require to sacrifice that much stamina, but they are a bit more lengthy to acquire than the other two. Ideally I would run double Champions if you can eventually.

    Over all you are off to a great start for your first 19 rogue. The most important thing I'd stress is swapping your dagger out. Other than that you already know my feelings on Assassination in the bracket, but you should always play what you'd like. If you haven't yet, give Outlaw a try. Subtlety? LOL.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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