[MOP] Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

iminibiv

Banned
Preliminary considerations:

I have done my best to be exhaustive, but I am forgetful.

Short notes on the Basin, 1v1, arenas, and premades have been included.

This is how to play rogue optimally, NOT how players are obligated to play. However, playing rogue incorrectly usually ends with the rog in the GY.
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The rog should not worry himself over imba matches, as he will be by and large unable to affect the outcome of the match, be it in victory or defeat. However, in less imba matches, the rog performs 5 functions:

Denying the enemy zerker and boots
Peeling
Calling kill order
Calling the EFC's location and escort
Returning the flag


Please note that the rog is an opportunist, NOT a ganker. This seems to be the most common misconception about playing rogue. When that 1200 health lock accidentally backpedals off eroof, separating from the EFC's escort, it would be opportune to pick him off on his way back up. When that 1200 health lock crosses the rog's path in mid, the rog should NOT gank him. Enemy stealth could attack, and/or any enemy could attack while the rog is dotted. Any CD used, health lost, and/or time wasted could be needed when engaging the EFC and/or his escort. The rog's team is better off with a fully ready rogue than with a random dead enemy.

On denying the enemy zerker and boots

If the rog isn't beaten to them, he should take both buffs at the beginning of the match. After he's crossed mid, he should check for ezerker. Throughout the match, he should continue to take these buffs as he is near them, but he should not go out of his way.

On peeling

The rog has 2 peels: Sap and Crippling Poison.

After the first application, Sap's utility diminishes infinitely: the first application takes none of the rog's time, but 8 seconds of the target's time. Waiting for a second or third application detains the rog for nearly as long as the target; thus, an enemy to which the rog applies a second or third Sap must be at least as important as him at that time.

An out-of-combat enemy which the rog plans to peel by Crippling is one which he will have already Sapped thrice. If he is not engaging the enemy, he should apply a third Sap, then ambush and immediately LoS and restealth whether or not the enemy is Crippled. If specced Subterfuge, the rog has the option of spending up to 3 more seconds on the enemy, though he should usually use that time as though he did not have it. Note that Subterfuge does allow for restealths which would otherwise not be possible, as the rog can reach LoS-breakers up to 3 seconds away.

Peeling multiple out-of-combat enemies is situational. This usually entails Sapping a target and opening on the remaining target(s), then Crippling the former after Sap breaks/fades.

Peeling one or more in-combat targets usually serves to separate enemies from the (E)FC. On offense, this can allow the rog and/or his teammates to pick off the Cripple(s), and/or whoever the Cripple(s) is/are being peeled off. When escorting the FC, this can allow the FC to survive an otherwise fatal situation, and/or the rog's team to pick off the Cripple(s). Note that the rog should escort the FC only until one or more of his teammates can.

Combat rogs using BF can still only Cripple their primary target.

On calling kill order

If a teammate is calling a good order, the rog should usually follow it.

Kill orders are fluid.

The rog should keep in mind that one or more of his teammates may not speak the same language. Communication should be as clear as possible: "[insert lone healer's name] > EFC", for instance.

On calling the EFC's location and escort

Calling this information before the EFC has crossed mid gives the rog's team time to return the flag without his help. The rog is best able to do this from atop the enemy's tun roof, where he has a clear view of mid and the EFC's exits. He should usually intervene in non-(E)FC-related battles only if his team has no FC, and there is a large battle which would wipe his team without his intervention, or which would wipe his team if a FC separated from the battle.

Calling the EFC's location and escort after the EFC has crossed mid gives the rog's team the information they need to help return the flag.

The rog should call if the EFC's location and/or escort change(s).

Calling the FC's location and escort is also helpful.

On returning the flag

Usually, after the EFC has entered mid, he should not leave the rog's screen or remain higher than the rog, unless the rog is peeling or attempting an opportunistic kill.

On faction/race selection

Animations > faction/race-specific mogs > racials. Note that, if willing to farm deviates, the rog can delight in human animations no matter his choice of race, though his mog will not be visible.

On spec/talent selection

Subtlety -> Nightstalker. This post assumes the rog has made these selections, but, unless otherwise specified, information here will apply to any spec/talent combination.

On Kick

The longer the rog waits to interrupt a cast, the longer the caster has wasted casting. If planning to interrupt a channeled cast, the rog should usually Kick asap. However, if he wants to silence the caster immediately after the cast, he should wait as long as the second-to-last tick does not secure a teammate's death or an enemy's survival.

When attempting to interrupt a fake-caster, the rog should vary how far into each cast he Kicks to avoid being faked. Note that some movement mid-cast may be accidental, and that some fake-casters may move instead of canceling their cast to give the impression that said movement was accidental. The rog could engage a fake-caster (or an enemy caster who does not fake) in a non-(e)fc-related battle and refrain from Kicking, even to save himself or a teammate and/or to secure a kill, and then more easily Kick that caster in an (e)fc-related battle.

A Kick from stealth is rarely predicted or faked.

On Throw

Throw replaces autoattack, meaning the Thrower cannot deal any other form of damage.

On Evasion

Anticipate damage and snares and Evade before taking said damage.

On Recup

Anticipate damage and Recup before taking said damage. Use bandaids/food.

On finishers

Do not waste time and possibly health and/or CDs building more points than are necessary - bank on the finisher critting. That being said, a finisher at nearly full or full energy allows for the use of more damage-dealing energy-consuming abilities immediately afterwards.

On Slice and Dice

One point gives 12 seconds of Slice and Dice, but each additional point only gives 6 additional seconds. The rog should usually have at least one leftover point (usually 2 from Ambush) on a stealthless player which he can use to Slice and Dice before opening. Points, which can only be built on one target at at time, persist through the enemy player's death, but not through the enemy pet/guardian's death/dismissal. Points on a stealthed enemy cannot be used unless the rog can detect the enemy.

On gear and enchants

The rog is a glass cannon.

There are 2 gearing paths to choose from: max damage and Crit. As Subtlety or Combat the Crit path is worse. Denounce.

Hit is desirable beyond the soft cap because it increases autoattack damage and poison application rate.

Alliance - Horde - difficult to obtain - Crit - enchantment. Substitutions for gear and relevant stats in battlegrounds included.

eyepatch: 8 agi and 8 hit
LFH
goggles: 5 hit
WBFH

medallion: 7 agi

shadowcraft: 8 agi and 4 hit
spaulders of the hero: 5 agi and 5 hit
serpent's shoulders: 8 agi
shadowfang spaulders: 4 agi and 4 crit

glowing lizardscale cloak: 7 agi
satchel cloak of the bandit: 4 agi and 4 crit
10 armor/Belf only

shadowcraft: 8 agi and 8 hit
fang: 11 agi
azure scale vest: 6 agi and 6 crit
15 health

bands of serra'kis: 6 agi
BWB: 4 agi and 4 crit
1 agi

foreman's: 7 agi and 7 exp
8 armour, or 16 armour

satchel belt of the bandit/wild: 6 agi, and 6 crit or 6 haste

hogger's: 11 agi and 11 hit
smelting pants: 10 agi and 4 crit
8 armour, or 16 armour

FotL: 10 agi
standard issue prisoner shoes: 9 agi
8 armour, or 16 armour

RoP: 7 agi and 3 hit
argas: 7 agi
ello's band: 4 agi and 4 hit (replace before argas)
legionnaire's band: 5 agi and 5 str (replace before argas)
DPR: 6 crit and 3 hit

Outside of battlegrounds, standard issue prisoner shoes > FotL, and hide vest of the shaman and cobrahn's boots are better Crit gear.

rune of duty
non-Human: insignia/insignia
non-Human: inherited insignia/inherited insignia (replaces insignia)
AGM
swift hand of justice: 7 haste
battlemaster's

The rog needs 3 weapons to maximize his damage output, and 5 weapons to maximize his utility. However, because changing weapons in combat (thought not out of combat) activates the GCD, Assassination rogs should SS with daggers despite the damage sacrifice. OH or dual heartseeker use is situational, depending on the target's mobility and the amount of CC the rog is eating. Minor considerations include weakened blows, nature resistance, armour, poison dispells, and duration of the battle. For instance, a lone rog of any spec might use dual heartseekers on a lone troll rdruid specced Feline Swiftness to ensure maximum ToT, given he kicks every root (his damage should prevent more roots than he can interrupt).

Abilities which are affected by weapon damage, except Mut, are affected by MH weapon damage only.

max Ambush, substution for max Hemo, RS, and SS, max OH damage, and max Assassination MH damage
max poison application, OH OR dual
Gnome max Hemo, RS, and SS
non-Gnome max Hemo, RS, and SS
1 damage

The rog should first purchase his corresponding venerable weapon and 2 heartseekers. After that, loom purchase order does not really matter.
On professions

The rog should level at least 2 temporary primary professions before leveling his long-term primary professions.

Non-Belves should reach 90 enchanting, while Belves should reach 100. 8 armour enchants can be crafted at 1 LW with leather gathered from skinning, but 16 armour enchants require 100 LW, a substantial grind.

Horde rogs without LFH and/or swiftness can craft goggles at 100 eng. Horde rogs with 1 fishing could use WBFH before LFH, allowing for MoA before obtaining swiftness.

Before obtaining swiftness, rogs should have herbalism and skinning. After obtaining swiftness, replace skinning with alch.

All rogs should have at least 115 first aid which includes a means to remove Serpent Sting and Crippling and Deadly Poisons. Because a player can only be bandaged once a minute, use food whenever not rushed despite the slower recovery to avoid the bandage debuff.
Recommended functionality in UI, macros, and addons

UI
view distance -> ultra - This allows for viewing as much of the map at once as is possible.

enable sound -> sound effects - This allows for hearing enemy stealth.

disable sticky targeting - This may not be necessary.

disable stop auto attack - This maintains the rog's autoattack when he changes targets.

enable target of target - This displays the rog's primary and focus target's target.

enable cast action keybinds on key down - This activates abilities faster.

enable lock action bars - Should the rog mouseover an action bar, this will prevent him from selecting an ability for movement or use when he clicks.

enable cast bars -> on targets and on nameplates -> show spell name - This increases awareness of nearby casting.

enable auto self cast - When the rog is bandaging without a target or a with an enemy targeted, this will automatically bandage him.

enable loss of control alerts -> full: show full duration, disarm: show full duration, root: show full duration - This increases awareness of CC on self.

enable unit nameplates -> friendly units, and enemy units -> pets - This increases awareness of nearby players and enemy pets.

unit nameplates -> friendly pets, friendly guardians, friendly totems, enemy guardians, and enemy totems - This increases unit awareness.

enable floating combat text on me -> enter/leave combat, low mana & health, and auras gained/lost - This notifies the rog when he enters combat and when he can stealth or mount, when his health falls below 20%, and when he gains or loses any (de)buff, respectively.

enable status text -> players, pet, party, target, and alternate resource - This increases awareness of units' resources.

raid profiles -> display incoming heals, display power bars, display aggro highlight, display class colors, display pets, and show debuffs - This increases awareness of teammates.

show all enemy debuffs - This increases awareness of debuffs on enemies.

enable smart pivot - This may not be neccessary.

max camera distance -> far - This allows for increased awareness. Zoom out as far as is comfortable.

camera following style -> never adjust camera - This prevents the camera from resetting when releasing the mouse after panning.

mouse look speed -> as fast as is comfortable - This reduces time spent panning.

mouse sensitivity -> as high as is comfortable - This allows for faster turning, mouseover functions, and manual targeting.

show zone map - This displays the location of the rog's teammates, and the location of the EFC 45 seconds after he begins FCing. The rog should lock it to prevent selecting it for movement should he click it when mousing over it.

show minimap -> track target and focus target - This tracks the rog's target and focus target. Zoom in fully to give the most accurate representation of who is nearby, though the radius is still more than 40 yards.

interact with mouseover -> bind to scroll up AND scroll down - This is the fastest way to interact with flags.

All of the rog's combat-related functions, including mounting, should be bound to a hotkey.
Macros
Macro to Kick from stealth:
#showtooltip Kick
/stopattack
/equip Wicked Dagger
/cast Ambush
/cast Kick

This prevents the rog from autoattacking out of stealth and ensures his MH is a wicked dagger before Ambushing (it will not affect his OH weapon even if that is also a wicked dagger). Because Kick is off the GCD and costs no energy, it will activate simultaneously instead of replacing Ambush while remaining as hard to predict or fake. Note that if used in Kick range with less than 60 energy, it will Kick without Ambushing.

Macro to Ambush:
#showtooltip Ambush
/stopattack
/equip Wicked Dagger
/cast Ambush

This prevents the rog from autoattacking out of stealth, replaces his Ambush bind and ensures his MH is a wicked dagger before Ambushing (it will not affect his OH even if it is also a wicked dagger).

Macro to Sap the nearest enemy player:
#showtooltip Sap
/cast Sap
/cleartarget
/targetenemyplayer
/cast Sap

Spamming this macro gives the rog a chance to Sap enemy stealth before they disappear or attack/Sap him and replaces his Sap bind.

Macro to Kick:
/cast [mod:shift, @focus,exists,harm,nodead][@mouseover,exists,harm,nodead][] Kick

This replaces the rog's Kick bind and will Kick his mouseover or primary target if no mod (or any mod but shift) is pressed and his focus target if shift is pressed. Players cannot see another player's focus target, making focus Kicks more difficult to predict or fake.

Macro to focus target:
/focus target

This is the fastest way to focus a target and saves time when the rog is changing targets but wants to focus his current target.

Macro to inform the FC that he should prepare to cap:
/bg cap

Replace "cap" to change the message. This ensures more caps than not informing the FC, while not wasting time manually typing.

Macro to Hemo:
/equip Venerable Mass of McGowan
/cast Hemorrhage

This ensures the rog's MH is a Venerable Mass of McGowan before Hemoing (it will not affect his OH even if it is also a Venerable Mass of McGowan). It should not replace his Hemo bind because in some cases the GCD spent changing weapons may be better spent on one or more Hemos and/or an Evisc. Gnomes should replace "Mass of McGowan" with "Dal'rend's Sacred Charge".

Macro to SS:
/equip Venerable Mass of McGowan
/cast Sinister Strike

This ensures the rog's MH is a Venerable Mass of McGowan before SSing (it will not affect his OH even if it is also a Venerable Mass of McGowan. It should not replace his SS bind because in some cases the GCD spent changing weapons may be better spent on one or more SSs/RSs and/or an Evisc. Gnomes should replace "Mass of McGowan" with "Dal'rend's Sacred Charge".


Macro to RS:
/equip Venerable Mass of McGowan
/cast Revealing Strike

This ensures the rog's MH is a Venerable Mass of McGowan before SSing (it will not affect his OH even if it is also a Venerable Mass of McGowan). It should not replace his RS bind because in some cases the GCD spent changing weapons may be better spent on one or more SSs/RSs and/or an Evisc. Gnomes should replace "Mass of McGowan" with "Dal'rend's Sacred Charge".


Macro to use stealth:
/cast [nostealth] Stealth
/stopattack
/equip Wicked Dagger

This prevents canceling stealth when spamming this bind, disables the rog's autoattack so he does not autoattack from stealth, and ensures his MH weapon is a wicked dagger (it will not affect his OH even if it is also a wicked dagger).

Macro to apply poisons:
/castsequence Crippling Poison, Deadly Poison

This replaces the rog's poison keybind, easing poison application.
Addons
BattlegroundTargets - This addon provides enemy unit frames.

Quartz - This addon factors lag into cast bars, easing the use of Kick.
Misc.

Use /bg to communicate. Though enemies cannot see what the rog /says when he is stealthed, /bg is visible battleground-wide while /say is not.

Envenom's buff activates regardless of whether or not the Envenom misses or is dodged or parried.

AGM's on-use effect can be used to remain in stealth while dotted, or to survive an otherwise fatal situation. It should not be used during a non-(E)FC-related battle.

Most players move through the gulch along the same paths. Moving on the outskirts of these paths can all but ensure the rog isn't caught out of stealth.

Haste increases poison application rate as well as energy regen.

The more efficiently the rog can position himself in relation to friendly and enemy units and LoS-breakers, the better he can perform.

The more aware the rog is of what's happening, the better he can perform.

Battlemaster's on-use effect increases the effectiveness of Recup if the trinket is used first.

The more the rog knows about each individual player and about the team as a whole, the better. The less the enemy knows about the rog, the better. Remain in stealth and use points in stealth whenever possible.
On the basin

All classes perform the following functions:

killing
pressuring
CCing
fighting near flags to deny or ensure ninja caps
calling inc
denying the enemy boots, zerker, and the healing chest
peeling
calling kill order

The rog differs only in that he has Sap. On defense, this provides some time before engaging (a) target(s) to deny a cap. On offense, this allows for Sap-and-caps.

Returning to his body to rez at half health can allow the rog to deny a cap and/or reenter a battle sooner.

The most bases can be viewed at once from the LM.

A right triangle of bases such as LM, BS, and ST allows for the quickest relocation of players to and from any given base to counter a possible assault, though by the end of the match a majority of bases may not be necessary to win.

Macro to Throw at mouseover:
/cast [@mouseover, harm, nodead][] Throw

This replaces the rog's Throw keybind, Throwing at his alive, enemy mouseover, and at his primary target if he has no such mouseover, easing the prevention of ninja caps.
On 1v1

Use LoS. When out of range and/or LoS of its master, autoattack pets/guardians but only use energy to keep from sitting on full energy.

On premades

The rog's function in premades will vary.

On arena

GladiusEX - This addon is a ride up.

Know both comps and each arena, manage CDs, communicate vocally, chain CC, train enemies, be aware, bait, counter, and position.

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Improvements to macros and UI functionality, the proper blizzard colors, data on diminishing crit returns and the difference in damage per point between agility and crit at level 20 not included
 
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Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

great info...im quite new to w.o.w.....an havnt yet got paid account ..iv started a assination rogue on f2p...my question is...ive got two 'wicked daggers' from stockades..on my melee-damage it shows-
MH damage 71-94 x125%.....dps 45.64
OH damage 28-38 x125%.....dps 28-38....!!!
why is my OH so weak compared to MH?
pls if u have any help or answers....thx
 
Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

why is my OH so weak compared to MH?
When you look at the various stats on your character, notice a stat called Attack Power. Depending on one's class, strength and/or agility give attack power, among other stats.

But what does attack power do? It helps boost your weapon damage, or the damage dealt by your main hand, and only that hand. It does not help boost your offhand weapon damage at all.

That's the short answer. Below are just some extra notes regarding such stats.
It should be noted that with abilities like Ambush, or any ability that deals [X% of weapon damage+(some constant)], that weapon damage particularly refers to your main hand damage as listed in character stats, ie the 71-94.
Normal weapon damage also means weapon damage, or damage given by your main hand.
Maximizing main-hand weapon damage not only boosts your DPS from that hand, but boosts the damage dealt by your spells that scale with weapon damage.
Note too that weapon speed in main hand affects the conversion from Attack Power (AP) to weapon damage (specifically, the amount of additional weapon damage (WD) from AP is [weapon speed]*AP/14. The larger the weapon speed, or the slower it swings, the stronger the conversion from AP to WD.)
---------------------------------

I may, or may not, add something to this post to make it more relevant to this wonderful PuG guide, besides thanking the OP for writing all this fantastic info.
 
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Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

I dont understand this -> interact with mouseover -> bind to scroll up AND scroll down - this is the fastest way to interact, particularly with flags. it denies repicks.

its about how to repic flag fast? i never make it on time... how to set picking up flag by scroll?
 
Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

I dont understand this -> interact with mouseover -> bind to scroll up AND scroll down - this is the fastest way to interact, particularly with flags. it denies repicks.

its about how to repic flag fast? i never make it on time... how to set picking up flag by scroll?

It means that you are binding the interact-with-mouseover function to both of the scroll wheel directions of your mouse. What happens is that if you keep scrolling while moving your mouse it's as if you're continuously clicking very fast, and your game will interact with something, like a dropped flag, as soon as you mouse over it, which can improve your picks/returns. :)

The exact way to bind this is to hit your Escape key to get the Game Menu, then click Keybindings. In the large list of preset functions, search for the phrase Interact with mouseover. You can bind the two scroll directions now and save this. :)

You should also find your zoom and rebind it to ctrl+scroll so you don't lose the zoom function. Essential for pretty screenshots and running around in wooded areas. ^^
 
Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

ehh i usually have 4 binds at scroll :/


What about opening?
I use Shadow focus talent. Usually Ambush hemo hemo hemo Eviscerate its the best or i can do somethink better?
 
Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

But what does attack power do? It helps boost your weapon damage, or the damage dealt by your main hand, and only that hand. It does not help boost your offhand weapon damage at all.

That's not true at all. AP DOES boost OH dmg.

When dual wielding, the damage of your OH weapon is reduced by 50%.

What about opening?
I use Shadow focus talent. Usually Ambush hemo hemo hemo Eviscerate its the best or i can do somethink better?

Subterfuge > Shadow Focus. You will do a lot more damage from stealth (roughly double) and be able to finish just after coming out, with subterfuge. Shadow Focus is only good if you like running around in stealth sapping people all day (only thing you do from stealth that will constantly eat your energy).

If you Sap > Ambush > Ambush > Hemo > Eviscerate with Subterfuge talent, you are going to have fully energy when you open anyway.
 
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Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

capitalized [MENTION=8222]Kearbear[/MENTION] and edited here and there
 
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Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

with shadow focus i will use Eviscerate earlier so more damage in less time ;]
shadow focus better i think :p
 
Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

I like this Guide....you should add how to use kick on a Balance druid for those that don't know how to fight them
 
Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

Great guide for rogues..I got a small tip you can add to it for Pandaren rogues vs Priests
 
Re: Pugging the Gulch with the F2P Rogue

up to date for dec 1st not that anything changed for rog with 5.4
 

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