Manglefiend's 24 Subtlety Rogue Guide

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  1. Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    Manglefiend's 24 Subtlety rogue guide!


    Glossary:

    • WSG = Warsong Gulch (The most commonly played battleground in lower level twinking brackets.)
    • FR = Flag Room (The room you spawn in once entering Warsong Gulch!)
    • FC = Flag Carrier (A player who carries the enemy's flag. A preferred Flag Carrier can heal themselves effectively and/or be tanky and/or be mobile.)
    • EFC = Enemy Flag Carrier (A player on the opposing side who carries the enemy's flag. Like the previous, a preferred flag carrier can heal themselves effectively and/or be tanky and/or be mobile. As a rogue, it is your job to make sure to kill the EFC.)
    • Roof = ... Roof (The preferred spot most FCs will go to first. If they are in their base and it is hard to tell where they are using the map, you should always check here first.)
    • Tun = Tunnel (The quickest way into a base and the quickest way to get to the roof. It is a tunnel connecting to the roof, the base, and the midfield)
    • Ramp = Ramp (A way in and out of your base reached through leaving the base on the opposite side instead of going tunnel, Most enemy flag carriers will exit through your ramp and enter through their ramp.)
    • GY = Graveyard (When a player dies and releases corpse, they will be sent to the graveyard and can wait up to a maximum of thirty seconds to be resurrected. It is a viable way for an FC to escape the EFR or an FC to hide in their GY to wait for allies to respawn.)
    • Mid = Midfield or Middle (Most battling will take place here. Good players know to try to get out of mid and get to objectives as soon as possible. As a rogue, always be in stealth in this area unless you're fighting EFC or defending FC.)
    • Repick = Preparation to pick up or help a potential FC pick up a flag if you think your FC is going to die.
    • (H) = Horde only or Horde specific.
    • (A) = Alliance only or Alliance Specific
    • BiS = Best in slot (Best gear for your level)
    • SiS = Second in slot (Second best gear or a good substitute/replacement.)
    • BoA = Bind on Account
    Currently: Patch 5.1 and presumably 5.2


    This guide will be updated when new changes come up as long as I am still playing and interested in 20-24.


    Subtlety Rogues are one of the most versatile and most useful classes in a battleground and can turn the tables if played by somebody who knows what to do. This guide is to help the influx of rogues, old and new. This guide is primarily about how to play a subtlety rogue in these low instead of primarily focusing on twenty four, although this guide is mainly to help 24 rogues. It may be useful for 24s, F2Ps, and maybe 19s. Please remember, it is mainly focused on 24, so it will include only level 24 gear. This guide is in no means forcing you to gear or play a specific way, it is to shed light on a class that is popular, though has little guides.


    Content:
    • Getting started: Races 2
    • Getting Started: Class Role (Basic idea) 2
    • Professions 2
    • Gear Stats 3
    • Gear/Weapons and enchants! 3
    • Tips 4
    • Author notes 5




     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2013
  2. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    Re: Manglefiend's 24 Subtlety Rogue Guide (!WIP!)

    Getting Started: Races
    Each race in this game has a set of unique racial abilities that only that race can use. Each race also has different base stats than each other, making some more stronger stat-wise than others. Races come down to personal preference and their racials are good, but barely game changers. Pick a race you enjoy the most unless you want to be the very best. This is in no particular order, I am just bringing up the best in my opinion.

    Alliance:
    Human - A human character starts off with fairly balanced base stats, primarily twenty base stamina and twenty base agility. What makes human one of the better races for a rogue is their racial ability, Every Man for Himself. This ability works like the PvP insignias which free you from immobilizing or movement impairing effects, but better in the sense that it has a faster cool down. With this racial, that means that it frees up an extra trinket slot for other trinkets. They also come with a sword expertise racial.

    Night Elf - As a Night Elf, you start with the highest base agility in the game, 25, beating any race on each faction by far in terms of agility, though you start with 19 base stamina, 1 less than human. As a Night Elf, you start with the racial ability, Shadowmeld. This ability will instantly place you into stealth upon use, though once you move, you become visible again. This racial removes you from combat, allowing you to stealth after you use it. This is a good ability if you are on the brink of death, or if you want to get in another ambush. Night Elves also move faster in stealth.

    A good Night Elf macro is:
    Using this macro, if you cast Shadowmeld while you are DoTed, you will not be removed from Shadowmeld due to being sat down.

    Gnome - As a Gnome, you start with the second highest base agility in the game, 23, and start with 19 base stamina. You start out with the racial ability, Escape Artist, a weaker version of the human racial. They have increased one-handed sword and dagger expertise, making them a very viable and silly option for an Alliance rogue.

    Worgen - As a Worgen, you have a base agility of 22 and base stamina of 20. You will have the racial ability, Darkflight, which will allow you to increase your speed by 40% for 10 seconds. You also have a passive which reduces the duration of diseases and curses on you.


    Horde:
    Orc - As an Orc, you have a base agility of 17, a base stamina of 22, and a racial that's useful in tight situations, Blood Fury, which increases your attack power by 24 at level 24. You also have a passive which reduces the duration of stun effects on you.

    Undead - As an undead, you have a base agility of 18, and a base stamina of 21, and a racial ability that's not worth mentioning since the Insignia's better and they both share a cooldown. You have increased shadow resistance and a passive chance to restore roughly 100-200 HP when you damage an enemy (This can proc with poisons, too). If you find that your health is getting low, you could always cannibalize your fallen enemy to restore health, it's also a good way to get back at that pesky OP shadow priest or HPally if you beat them.

    Troll - As a troll, you have a base agility of 22, and a base stamina of 21, as well as the racial ability, Berserking, which increases your melee and ranged haste by 20% for 10 seconds. You have the passive racial that makes it so movement impairing abilities don't effect you as badly, and you have the passive racial that allows it so you can regenerate health faster, and you can even regen health in combat.

    Blood Elf - As a Blood Elf, you have a base agility of 22, a base stamina of 18, and the racial ability, Arcane Torrent. This is an excellent ability when fighting against casters or healers as it silences all enemies within an 8 yard radius, as well as restores 15 energy to you.

    Goblin - As a Goblin, you have a base agility of 22, a base stamina of 20, and the racial ability, Rocket Barrage, which fires a rocket at the enemy. The damage scales with attack power and level. They also have the racial ability, Rocket Jump, which allows you to do a large jump. This ability is useful in the sense that it can close a gap or get to places that is either hard or impossible to get to otherwise. It can be used strategically to fake people off an edge as well. This ability shares a cooldown with Rocket Barrage. They can also summon a bank, which is useful if you forgot something important.

    That is about it! If I didn't list a race, it's because I feel they aren't as strong as the ones I've listed.

    Getting Started: Class Role (Basic Idea)

    So you've picked a race for your rogue, but are you sure that it's the right class for you? Some people pick classes with no idea on the specific role on what they do (I do not mean DPS, tank, or healer). I've seen mages try to be tanky FCs, I've seen lone priests trying to take on 5 at a time! They don't know their roles. As a rogue, you are primarily DPS. You should never FC unless nobody else will step up, or if you feel the the only possible FC is too undergeared. Your main objective is to defend your flag, and if someone picks it up and gets out of the base, your objective is to kill them at all costs, be it taking out a healer first or sap locking the EFC in mid until your team catches up. A good rogue should never be seen fighting in the middle due to having stealth unless it's to aid FC, to kill a healer who's playing objectively, or to kill EFC. You should spend most of your time in your base, the enemy's base, or in close proximity to the EFC. When you fight a caster or a healer, you have two abilities which can stop them in their tracks (Three if you're a blood elf). Use them to your advantage. A kick, a gouge, or an Arcane Torrent could save the game!

    Basically, a rogue provides solo objective DPS and good cockblocking against healers.

    Why Subtlety? Here's why:

    Subtlety isn't the end all, all of the other specs are completely fine, though they don't match up with Subtlety's utility in my opinion.

    First of all, what is the gain of Subtlety that makes it superior? Let's compare the other spec's defining gains. I will not include Combat as I have no experience with Combat rogues whatsoever and just reading WoWhead can give you wrong impressions.
    Subtlety:
    Hemorrhage: This ability replaces Sinister Strike. Hemorrhage is a strong ability which does good damage (Even more when paired with a dagger), that also leaves a long-lasting DoT on the target. It is a good way to stop enemy rogues or feral druids from running away and can be crucial into saving a game. It awards one combo point and is the main way a rogue should be building combo points after you open.

    You also gain a passive 30% more agility through being Subtlety as well as your ambushes giving you 10 seconds of avoiding 70% of the target's armor.

    Your attacks do 10% damage while stealthed and 6 seconds after stealth is broken.

    Assassination:
    Mutilate: An ability that does decent damage as well as awards two combo points. It's large energy cost and inferior damage to Hemorrhage if the Sub is using a dagger makes this ability not as strong damage wise compared to Hemorrhage.

    Envenom: This ability replaces Eviscerate: I have little experience with this ability myself but it's main benefit is the greater chance for poisons to be applied to the target.

    When you roll Assassination, you have a passive 20% chance increase to apply deadly poison to the target, as well as a 20% damage increase and 20 energy increasewhilst wearing daggers.

    Both Subtlety Rogues and Assassination rogues are great though, and are both worth rolling. Overall, Subtlety in my opinion is the best due to comparison.

    Professions:

    Engineering (MUST): Engineering not only allows you to create strong damaging or control-oriented items, but also gives rogues the BiS cloak, Parachute Cloak. Engineering is a necessity as a level 24 rogue in my opinion, even if you aren't using explosives, the cloak is a godsend.

    The next two professions aren't necessities, you can pick one of either of them and still be fine:

    Skinning: Leveling skinning to 225 will allow you to get the passive, Master of Anatomy, increasing your critical strike. If you drop skinning, you drop this passive.

    Herbalism: Leveling herbalism to 225 will allow you to get the ability, Lifeblood, an ability which increases your haste and heals you.

    I feel mining isn't as important to a rogue as it increases your stamina by a small bit. It isn't a big gain for anybody, especially a rogue.

    I also feel most of the production professions except for alchemy are terrible. Alchemy is a decent profession as it doubles stat gains from potions, elixirs, and flasks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2013
  3. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    Re: Manglefiend's 24 Subtlety Rogue Guide (!WIP!)

    Gear Stats:

    You will want agility as your most important main stat. As a rogue, a good offense (DPS), is practically your best defense. It isn't health or resilience, and the dodge isn't guaranteed, but as a rogue, your survival depends on quick getaways or killing your enemy faster than they can kill you. Agility gives you higher damage, higher critical strike, as well as higher dodge.

    Stamina is your next most important stat. Even if agility is the best for many reasons, without stamina, having good attack power is meaningless. Stamina increases your health, making you more survivable. One stamina is worth 10 health points. As a rogue, a safe health pool is between 1500-1800 depending on your play style. Going over 1800 health points may mean you are wasting DPS.

    Strength gives you extra attack power. The only strength stat you should have is the 9 Strength bracer enchant.

    Intellect and spirit provide no benefit to a rogue whatsoever and is not worth going over.

    Secondary Stats


    A secondary stat is another form of stats. Most of your secondary stats are going to be gained through your agility base stat with some exceptions that are on your gear itself. Secondary stats are a good way to determine what do you want your rogue to be. Hit is the most important secondary stat and you should not ignore it whatsoever.

    You'll want hit chance first, followed by critical strike. The rest of your useful stats (Dodge) will come with the other gear and is not worth singling out and stacking as you'll gain a high amount gearing normally.

    Hit:
    Hit chance is a stat that decreases the chance to miss on a target. Hit chance is necessary and a must due to this. One miss could cost you the game. You'll want to try to collect 11 hit rating, which then brings you to 4.47% hit. You never miss on a F2P or 24 by doing this.

    Critical Strike
    :
    Critical Strike is a stat that increases your chance to gain a critical strike on a target. A critical strike is when a damaging attack regardless of what spell it is deals larger than usual damage. Increasing critical strike chance will allow you to do these attacks more often. As a rogue, this is a necessary stat as well, though not quite as important as hit.

    Dodge is a stat that will be gained through just stacking agility, thus isn't a stat you need to single out and stack. Dodge increases the chance you can dodge the enemy.

    PvP Resilience is a stat that is only useful in PvP. This stat makes it so the enemy doesn't hit as hard on you in player versus player. PvP resilience shouldn't be stacked as a rogue, and only one piece of gear should have it.

    PvP Power is a stat that allows you to hit harder in PvP. It is a very useful stat for rogues.



    You should be able to hit hard enough to take out enemies quickly before low health becomes too much of an issue.


    Gear/Weapons and Enchants:

    (This gear is listed from best to worst IMO, left to right.)

    Alliance
    Chardev


    Head: (BiS) Stained Shadowcraft Cap, (A) Skillpatch, (SiS) Lucky Fishing Hat
    Neck: (BiS) Medallion
    Shoulder: (BiS) Stained Shadowcraft Spaulders, (A) Khaz Modan Spaulders
    Cloak: (BiS) Parachute Cloak,
    Chest: (BiS) (A) Temple's Vest, (SiS) Stained Shadowcraft Tunic
    Bracers: (BiS) Emissary Cuffs of the Monkey/Agility, Black Wolf Bracers, Bands of Serra'kis
    Gloves: (BiS) (A) Ashen Gloves, Brawler Gloves, Naga Battle Gloves
    Belt: (BiS) Vigorous Belt of the Bandit (5 Agility, 5 Stamina, 5 Crit)
    Pants: (BiS) Petrolspill Leggings, Stained Shadowcraft Pants, (A) Aluwyn's Legguards
    Feet: (BiS) Standard Prisoner Shoes
    Rings: (BiS) Charged Gear of Agility x2/of the Monkey x2/of Eluding x2, (SiS)Signet of Argas, (SiS) (A) Jalin's Recompense, (SiS) (A) Ello's Band
    Trinkets: (BiS) Arena Grand Master (Two if you are a human), BoA Insignia (Do not use this if you are a human.), Insignia (Do not use this if you are a human), Swift Hand of Justice (Two if you are a human.)
    Mainhand Weapon: (BiS) Venerable Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge, Electrocutioner's Leg
    Offhand Weapon: (BiS) Bangalash's Claw, Blackvenom Blade

    Horde
    Chardev

    Head: (BiS) Stained Shadowcraft Cap, Lucky Fishing Hat
    Neck: (BiS) Medallion
    Shoulder: (BiS) Stained Shadowcraft Spaulders, (H) Spaulders of the Hero
    Cloak: (BiS) Parachute Cloak,
    Chest: (BiS) Stained Shadowcraft Tunic, Wrangler's Wraps of the Monkey (7 agil, 7 stam), Mizjah Vest
    Bracers: (BiS) Emissary Cuffs of the Monkey/Agility, Black Wolf Bracers, Bands of Serra'kis
    Gloves: (BiS) Brawler Gloves, Naga Battle Gloves
    Belt: (BiS) Vigorous Belt of the Bandit (5 Agility, 5 Stamina, 5 Crit)
    Pants: (BiS) Petrolspill Leggings, Stained Shadowcraft Pants
    Feet: (BiS) Standard Prisoner Shoes
    Rings: (BiS) Charged Gear of Agility x2/of the Monkey x2/of Eluding x2, (SiS)Signet of Argas
    Trinkets: (BiS) Arena Grand Master, BoA Insignia, Insignia, Swift Hand of Justice
    Mainhand Weapon: (BiS) (H) Outlaw Sabre, Venerable Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge
    Offhand Weapon: (BiS) Bangalash's Claw, Blackvenom Blade


    Crossfaction Chardev


    Enchants!

    Cloak: 16 PvP Power (As clarified earlier, PvP power is a stat that allows you to hit harder in player versus player combat. This makes it so you hit 6.53% harder in PvP), 12 agility (Not as useful as PvP power though still a good enchant. I recommend collecting two Parachute Cloaks and using this on one.)
    Chest: 4 Stats (This enchant increases each main stat by 4, meaning you gain 40 health, 4 agility, and 4 strength. It is a great enchant!), 100 Health (Another viable enchant if you cannot find 4 stats.)
    Bracer: 9 Strength (Some argue that 9 stamina is better, but I feel that 9 strength is a greater enchant due to giving you more DPS.), 9 Stamina (Another very awesome enchant. Pick it up if you feel you are on the squishy side.)
    Gloves: 15 Agility (This enchant is a must for level 24 rogues, no questions asked. It is very self explanatory what it is.)
    Boots: Minor Speed (I feel this is the best boot enchant as you will very rarely lose your target with this. This enchant will increase your movement speed by 8%, leaving you at 108%), 7 agility (Another very good enchant. I recommend getting another pair of prisoner boots and putting this on them.)
    Weapons: 15 agility each (With no questions ask, these two enchants are the bread and butter of low level rogue twinks. Do not turn these down, they are a very big damage, crit, and dodge increase.)






     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2013
  4. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    Re: Manglefiend's 24 Subtlety Rogue Guide (!WIP!)

    Tips:

    With being a great rogue, requires great control of your character. A rogue is one of the easiest classes to play in this bracket, but it is among the hardest to master. You need to be a quick thinker to play a rogue effectively, and need to plan things out if you are planning on soloing the EFC.

    When fighting a healer or spellcaster, you should nearly always attack them from the front except for a few cases. A good way to do this is to strafe. That way the person cannot out run you, you can get in your crippling poisons, as well gouge them easily. Always try to attack from behind with anybody else, especially a Windwalker.

    Avoid using sap unless you need to. When you sap an enemy, it gives them time to prepare for you and they know you are there. If you don't need to sap the enemy, open with an ambush. By doing this, you surprise the enemy and they have little time to react quickly as they didn't expect it. By the time they realize, they'll be close to death or you have your crippling poisons on already.

    Stealth is an amazing tool which allows us to bypass the middle in order to get to objectives without a caster slowing us down. Use it wisely, you can pick your own battles.

    You get brownie points if you don't farm. You get shit on if you farm GY! :3 Please play objectively.

    If you are nearing/or have full combo points while your enemy is nearly dead, do not spend them on Eviscerate. If your health is low, spend it on Recuperate, if not, spend it on Slice and Dice so that way you can use your combos to attack other people instead of just 1.

    When you are going to interrupt a healer or caster, try to interrupt them at the last possible second, so that way, they wasted time.

    Don't be afraid to break stealth in middle to mount up. If it means catching the EFC in time, do it.

    Whenever you are unstealthed, always keep a look out for enemies, especially ones who can DoT you. Try to engage in most fights starting stealthed, though you won't always get that lucky.

    Rogues on defense at the beginning of the game can destroy the initial enemy zerg on the FR. Doing that can buy your team some time whilst waiting the other team some major time.

    If you encounter a rogue VS rogue situation, no matter the health difference, the skilled and/or more DPS oriented should ALWAYS win.

    Rogues can be easily kited. If you find yourself being kited, try to find the nearest LoS area such as the relief huts in the mid field or a corner, and try to wait it out. The kiter will either leave, or cross around the corner so you can kill them easily.

    Do not be afraid to risk dying to get the EFR. Even if you are the only one there, the EFR has 4 healers, yet the EFR is a low health undergeared person, go for it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2013
  5. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    Re: Manglefiend's 24 Subtlety Rogue Guide (!WIP!)

    Author's Notes. This is my first big guide on Twink Info. Please tell me if I could improve. I spent roughly 4 hours straight on it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2013
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    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    Re: Manglefiend's 24 Subtlety Rogue Guide (!WIP!)

    Finished. :D
     
  7. Squeakyjack

    Squeakyjack Grandfathered

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    Stained Shadowcraft Leggings > Petrols.
    And maybe have a cross faction BiS list.
     
  8. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    I feel Petrolspill is better just because it does more DPS, and the loss of 40HP isn't going to make a difference, though the DPS is.

    A cross faction BiS list could work, but really, you just need to look through my horde BiS list and my Alliance BiS list. (I will however create a Chardev for cross faction)


    (UPDATED: Added an Alliance Chardev, Horde Chardev, and Cross-Faction Chardev)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2013
  9. SallyG

    SallyG Grandfathered

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    There are a lot of things you could add/elaborate on to make the guide more comprehensive. Which in turn makes it more useful to the masses...

    Things that you should consider including:

    • Abilities Rogues have at this level.
    • DR.
    • Specs. You could touch on the other specs, not just Sub.
    • All professions.
    • All racials. You missed like 2 races for some reason... Even if they aren't amazing you should talk about why.
    • Talents.
    • Stats. Why are those enchants the best? What is your hit cap? What about expertise? Etc, etc. You skim over this. But it isn't clear. Not really.
    • Macros.

    Also, you are the first person I've seen advocate attacking from the front. Really.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2013
  10. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    It depends situationally if you should attack them from the front. With a healer or spell caster, I feel attacking from the front is better than the back so you can get a gouge off. I should have been more specific on that.
     
  11. SallyG

    SallyG Grandfathered

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    Just strafe through them...
     
  12. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    I've updated that part of the guide for you. I don't know what the fuck I was thinking when I wrote it. I guess it was because it was 2 AM where I was when I wrote it.

    I'll also attempt to touch up on your other critiques, they were clear points that I was obviously not thinking about.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2013
  13. raethis

    raethis Veteran

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    Quite a bit of effort put in here, very nice guide. Still looking for improvements :)
     
  14. CIHC

    CIHC That One OG

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    Approved, keep this updated if you want to keep the white title... Btw; PM an Admin about the title change.
     
  15. sleeveface

    sleeveface Veteran

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    Thanks for the guide. I've recently gotten back into WoW a bit after a long break, and have been trying to figure out how to gear my rogue (Masseur on Darkspear). I think I might be rolling with too much HP at the moment, and there's a couple pieces of BiS gear I'd like, but I'm trying to keep it casual (no endless Gnomer farming). Still, I tend to finish highest in honor and/or damage when pugging.
     
  16. urax

    urax Veteran

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    With 5.4 around the corner and enchants scaling. The parachute cloak still good? Or boa one with enchants scaling to the lvl of your character
     
  17. OP
    Gulbon

    Gulbon Grandfathered

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    Ask that in 5.4
     
  18. TheDahl

    TheDahl Grandfathered

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  19. Iwinhaha

    Iwinhaha Veteran

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    This shall be my first post to the this site. I'm a fairly new twink on vashj where I've created a twink guild called twentyfour seven. I found this thread to be very helpful and informative and I wanted to say thanks personally.
     
  20. noblerefugee

    noblerefugee Veteran

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