Korraks scaling system

toskosa

toskosa

Veteran
I was thinking about the way korraks scales players today and was wondering why blizzard does not use this system for lvling bgs? I mean they already scale players up to 29 but not gear,. I was also wondering if that is something ppl around here would be interested in or not?

I was thinking it would go something like you scale to 29 and gear scales up to 35/36? Interested in peoples thoughts about this system of scalling for just random bgs, could be a way to remove the xpon/off divide as well.

yeah so just curious as to why its not like that now and if the game would be ebtter/worse overall for it.
 
Thats essentially Legion templates and it was pretty good pvp for twinks. The only problem is, there's something definitely off-putting about stats not mattering and not being able to stack stats in a way you prefer.

I imagine the korraks scaling would get around that a little bit, but I'm still not keen on the idea of scaling anyway. It's benefited F2P immensely (we're competitive in pvp and get to pretty pain-free explore the entire game because of it) but it ultimately feels really shitty. It doesnt make sense, from an "outsider looking in" perspective, that a level 20 should in any way be competitive with a level 29.

Leveling pvp *should* be imbalanced and higher level toons with better gear *should* have an advantage. End game pvp is where things should more-or-less even out.

The more you introduce scaling and the more you try to flatten out the experience, the more you start to have to ask why you even have a leveling system in the first place.
 
I figured with korraks you could stills tat the way you want at least, it reminds me a bit of wod scalling tbh and I liked wod scalling from both a lvling perspective and maxed level one.
don't get me wrong I also think lvling pvp should be a bit imbalanced as in ppl who put in time to farm out gear/proffs should have an advantage. I was just wondering if people think blizzard might move towards a korrak style system in the future.

Chops said:
The more you introduce scaling and the more you try to flatten out the experience, the more you start to have to ask why you even have a leveling system in the first place.
Click to expand...

Hmm true too much scalling is def a bad thing.
 
Yeah. Especially after the 3hr leveling world first yesterday. Not to mention the continued issues with twinks/balance/complainers/farmers

I can definitely see the blizz totally restructuring the leveling system and/or eliminating it entirely, in favor of some other prestige/progression system.
 
I wasn't a big fan of legion templates though tbh, I like having control over my secondaries/having enchants work.
 
1. Intro
There are at least two main philosophies about PvP in a MMORPG like World of Warcraft: the Competitive one and the Roleplaying one. Both are valid and interesting, but each one has its downsides.


2. The "Competitive" Philosophy
This philosophy is all about equal play conditions and accessibility.

The Competitive folks will argue that Gear disparity can cheapen the play experience, since a low-skill player with better items can defeat a high-skill player with worse items, without outplaying them.

For that reason, it would be important to reduce the impact that all variables that aren't play skill have in the outcome of a match (like Gear - and even classes' toolkits). That way, only the better player can win; but the worse player can clearly identify and overcome what defeated them (Ex. "Yeah, he interrupted and killed me, but at least I don't need to farm stronger items to have a bigger health pool").

But it's not only about creating a fair enviroment. Since Competitive games live or die due to the size of their playerbase, reducing the amount of non-PvP activities needed to be competitive allows more people to readily play it at competitive levels, allowing for better matches and matchmaking.

This design philosophy was used in Legion and strongly abandoned in BfA (where a lot of Azerite Gear, Essences and Corruption was required to be competitive). It also goes against what "Twinking" originally meant, since it reduces the amount of "preparation play" before a PvP match and the power difference between less or more dedicated players.


3. The "Roleplaying" Philosophy
This philosophy is all about rewarding the players that invested more time and have better knowledge on the game's mechanics.

More so in traditional RPGs, a character's power is expected to grow horizontally as it's level increases, turning old relevant foes into negligible ones. To the Roleplaying folks, the same principle should be applied to PvP: players of higher levels should have a power advantage against lower level ones, as well as being able to benefit from knowing small game details (like what unusual items are available to them).

This philosophy is very interesting for the same reasons that make it somewhat toxic. It creates a large Power Ceiling that is only accessible to the most dedicated players, but that can be harmful to the overall healthiness of the competitive scene, because it largely increases the amount of "preparation play" before actual PvP; makes unclear why a player lost a match (Ex. "Does he have better gear than me or I just played badly? Also, why is he so much stronger than me?"); and could deter new players from entering the competitive scene, making it a "veterans only zone".

This was the design choice for most of the game, not necessarily in an intentional way, but because WoW has a lot of strange interactions within itself.


4. Personal Preference.
I am all about the "Competitive" Philosophy, because I feel it is:

(1) fairer and clearer, new players can more easily know what they are doing wrong and how to improve;
(2) easier to pick-up-and-play, you don't need to invest much time preparing yourself to be competitive (despite being my favorite part) and can chose different classes to try out;
(3) more "consistent" in the context of WoW, because Legion Templates meant all queues were unified and you could properly play with xp-off characters.​


5. My Suggestions

(1) Implement a "Korrak's Revenge"-like scaling for Epic Battegrounds in the leveling brackets.

Since those kinds of map require lots of people, it's hard to actually play on them. For Epic BGs, I'd break down the brackets into three: (i) Max Level (lvl 60); (ii) Leveling to max level (lvl 51-59); (iii) "Big leveling pool" (lvl 10-50).

Brackets (i) and (ii) don't have scaling and must separated into their own, due to how powerful the items from a new expansion usually are. The "Big leveling pool" would be mixed and have the Korrak's-like scaling.

(2) Expand the Honor Talents System

Despite the freedom to chose any Honor Talents, there isn't much room for creative play, as some of those talents are mandatory to perform well in any kind of PvP.

Increasing the number of overall talents and talent picks is a good way to allow more diverse builds to rise. To maintain some control over the rising madness, some talents shouldn't be able to be picked together (Ex. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203284/flamecannon and Pre-nerf https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203286/greater-pyroblast).

Also, picking some talents could be prerequisites to chose others, as a way to direct players into pseudo-builds or as another way to balance things (Ex. buffed versions of https://www.wowhead.com/spell=199330/cleanse-the-weak and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=199324/divine-vision).

(3) Transform the Honor Talents into a Classic Talent Tree/ "Pick-10 System"

This is mainly focused in a "If we ever get Legion Templates again" scenario.

Since that system was mainly criticized for having no room for stats customization, the First Idea is: part of the Honor Talents could be small passive increases to attributes that you could chose.

Imagine having four extra different talent lines where you pick a X% passive increase to a secondary stat, like this:
  • Row 1 - Pick one: ( ) Critical; ( ) Haste; ( ) Mastery;
  • Row 2 - Pick one: ( ) Haste; ( ) Mastery; ( ) Versatility;
  • Row 3 - Pick one: ( ) Mastery; ( ) Versatility; ( ) Critical;
  • Row 4 - Pick one: ( ) Versatility; ( ) Critical; ( ) Haste.
A Second Idea is to tie into the "some Honor Talents can't be picked together / some must", making small sets of active talents that unlock other active and passive options, that are compatible with pseudo-build playstyles.
Another Third Idea is the "Pick-10" or "Pick-X system", which was mainly used in some FPS games like Call of Duty. In this system, Active and Passive talents could be picked at will, but each one would cost a set of "pick points" (Ex. do I pick https://www.wowhead.com/spell=210294/divine-favor or 7,5% Haste?).

This gets particularly interesting if the cost of picking Active and Passive talents were different, depending of its power (Ex. Getting 5% Haste costs 1 point, but getting additional 5% Haste costs even more 2 points, for a total of 3; and choosing https://www.wowhead.com/spell=210294/divine-favor costs 2 points upfront).
 
Interesting idea guys,ohti no way man elave the enchants be.
I think the biggest change I could want though is for marks of honour to be removed and honour points be used to buy things again for all levels. Kinda no point for marks since they brought honour back.
 
But u do scale to 29 in leveling bgs.
If u don't believe me check ur health and dmg after u go into a big.

Korraks is an example of being lazy where they make u garbage and everyone is the same. It's not balanced it's not fun and there wouldn't be any point in playing if that's how all bgs were to me.
 
How is it not balanced if everyone is the not only the same level ( I already know it scales you to max btw) but also scales all gear to the same ilvl?
 
toskosa said:
How is it not balanced if everyone is the not only the same level ( I already know it scales you to max btw) but also scales all gear to the same ilvl?
Click to expand...

In special, K.R.'s scaling was not balanced - not because of the way it treats numbers - but because it groups players of many different levels together.

Obviously there is going to have some differences, like mounts and spells. But characters of an higher level have access to more kinds of items, like Gems, consumables, old Legendaries, the Heart of Azeroth powers etc.

In 2019's K.R., my 120 arcane mage was pimped out with all kinds of different items with gems and secondary special effects and he could 2-3 shot weaker players with Arcane Blast.


The only way a K.R. style scaling can be true balanced was if they disabled all kinds of enchants, consumables and special effects on items (like old Legion templates) at least inside this BG.

Maybe, this could be extended to temporarily giving 100% mount and all spells to everyone within the BG.
 
Eleannor said:
In special, K.R.'s scaling was not balanced - not because of the way it treats numbers - but because it groups players of many different levels together.

Obviously there is going to have some differences, like mounts and spells. But characters of an higher level have access to more kinds of items, like Gems, consumables, old Legendaries, the Heart of Azeroth powers etc.

In 2019's K.R., my 120 arcane mage was pimped out with all kinds of different items with gems and secondary special effects and he could 2-3 shot weaker players with Arcane Blast.


The only way a K.R. style scaling can be true balanced was if they disabled all kinds of enchants, consumables and special effects on items (like old Legion templates) at least inside this BG.

Maybe, this could be extended to temporarily giving 100% mount and all spells to everyone within the BG.
Click to expand...


When I say Korraks I dont mean the level rbackets it had, same brackets as now ( 10-19 20-29 etx) but with just item lvl scaling as well as lvl scalling. I dont think korraks works very well with all levels tbh, which is another reason I dont like epic bgs atm.
 
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