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How is rating calculated on Arena Ladder?

Discussion in 'Website Feedback' started by bigmoran, Jan 30, 2016.

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  1. bigmoran

    bigmoran Member

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    I've heard from multiple people that the site's Arena Ladder uses some MMR system based on actual data from the game.

    I think this is bullshit.

    Can someone explain to me how the Arena Ladder ratings are generated. If they are pulling ACTUAL MMR data from the armory, how is this data being obtained?
     
  2. Shamatix

    Shamatix Guest

    Well there is hidden MMR which you can access through the API, give me a char of yours and I will link you your MMR and where to find it. It's blizzards official skirmish MMR, not something we make up our self.

    http://i.imgur.com/H3PTLQH.png This is a guy named Nobiboxtv on Tichondrius on US mmr.
     
  3. OP
    bigmoran

    bigmoran Member

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    How to I access the API?
     
  4. Shamatix

    Shamatix Guest

    You need an API key which can be obtained at http://dev.battle.net/ after that you can find various information about the character, for example to access the skirmish raiting you would want to use the PVP Api, more information about the API can be found here: https://dev.battle.net/io-docs
     
  5. OP
    bigmoran

    bigmoran Member

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    Link me Bigmoran@Tichondrius
     
  6. Shamatix

    Shamatix Guest

  7. Shamatix

    Shamatix Guest

  8. Shockadingle

    Shockadingle Veteran

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    But how is the MMR calculated? Does anyone know?
    If I carry a f2p jaja with no gear in half his item slots, do I gain the same points as if I queue with some lvl 29 warrior or BM?
    And if I lose with the jaja do I lose the same points as if I lose with a high ranked partner?

    I just found out there was a ladder for f2p skirmishes, added my character and it says i'm rank 7 of the lvl 20s. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because I
    1) queue solo and re-que with jaja's.
    2) try to 1v2 if the match looks uneven, to be honorable, and sometimes lose doing that, and
    3) even(rarely) /bow and exit to give my opponent the win if I feel they played well but had no chance because of gear/enchants.
    4) I stop queuing if I keep winning too easily(it's boring), and keep queuing if I keep losing, because those are the fun/challenging matches.

    Questions:
    1) Do I not lose rating doing stuff like that?
    2) Do Wargames effect MMR/rating?
    3) Most of the highest rated people, I've never seen before, after more than 1000 arena matches on my current character alone. Why don't I run into these people in the arena? I should have fought them many times.
    Edit: I just noticed, they are EU players. Do they not cross-match EU and US?

    It kind of makes me interested to see how high I could get if I focus on ratings instead of fun and honor. But for that, I'd need an understanding of how they are calculated.
    Questions:
    Would I have to stop solo queuing and only play if I can can some lvl 29 OP character to carry me? That sounds extremely lame and not fun, and not worth it.
    Or, do I gain sufficiently more and lose sufficiently less for wins/losses if my current partner has no/low rating to off-set the vastly diminished likelihood of winning?
    Anyone have formulas or at least know the general design theory behind it, or have a personal opinion/theory?
    Thanks
    -Greasysorrow
     
  9. Fx

    Fx Unnecessarily Rude

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    EU and US are split of course. Regions have never been able to play together.

    The rating system is the same one they use at max level. It's not something made by players, it's Blizzard's own system.
     
  10. Bop

    Bop Diamond Cow

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    Rating doesn't factor things like level or enchants into it.

    Rating does interact with your partner's rating, as well as your opponent's, to determine how much you win or lose after each game.

    MMR (Matchmaking Rating) changes faster than your visible rating, and is averaged with your partner's MMR when determining who you face in the arena. However, so few teams queue at any moment in low level arenas that MMR isn't a very accurate indicator of who you will face in an arena.

    I've seen you before, you're a good priest.

    I'd personally like to see fewer people queuing with 29s in the 20s ladder. They earn the same rating as 20s who only queue with other 20s, which feels rough when (as a team of level 20s) you put a lot of time into grinding in a bracket only to have someone pass you with a 29 partner. Obviously Solo Queue is different - that's not preventable.
     
  11. Greasysorrow

    Greasysorrow Guest

    Thx for the feedback guys. Guess I'll mostly do what I've always done.

    [/QUOTE]
    I'd personally like to see fewer people queuing with 29s in the 20s ladder. They earn the same rating as 20s who only queue with other 20s, which feels rough when (as a team of level 20s) you put a lot of time into grinding in a bracket only to have someone pass you with a 29 partner. Obviously Solo Queue is different - that's not preventable.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you, BoP that fighting 20s with a 29 partner is lame. On the other hand, queing with a 29 to fight 29s isn't. And you never know who you're going to get :(, so it's hard to say anything is dishonorable anymore. Also enchanted 20s vs 29s seem more evenly matched than enchanted 20s vs pure f2p 20s.
    Last time I was on, I queued with Illyrian(something like that, 29 warrior) for the first time, to battle a double 29 BM team (Gucciglad and another). We had several great, intense, exciting, close matches. We also had several good matches against a double 29, mirror disc/war team.
    But we also ran into you and Original, and some other lvl 20 teams and solo-ques, which wasn't fair, and I felt bad about those. But I couldn't have beat the 29 BMs with any lvl 20 partner. So there's no good solution.
    It's a shitty thing to mix the bracket as blizzard has done, but it's mixed no matter what we players do outside of wargames.
    (BTW, do you know if wargames count towards rating or MMR?)

    (What blizzard should do, imo., is give players the lvl x9 skills when they scale up to lvl x9 in their bracket. That, and temporarily remove high lvl enchants on low lvl gear while inside bg/arena/wargames. Those are simple and obvious and are not class-balance issues so they would not negatively affect the balance at max lvl.)
     
  12. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

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    1) Do I not lose rating doing stuff like that?

    A) The mmr works just the same as it does at endgame. Meaning, if you lose to teams with lower mmr (hidden mmr in this case), you will lose more mmr, than if you lost vs a team that was a lot higher mmr than you. Vise versa, if you are low mmr and beat a team with significantly higher mmr, you're mmr will go up by a ton. Now, the rating they use in their ladder system does not contain mmr. That is the actual rating. Your mmr will always try to reach your rating (at least this is how it is at endgame).

    As to whether you'd lose mmr based on games that you leave, I'm not sure.

    2) Do Wargames effect MMR/rating?

    A) No.

    3) Most of the highest rated people, I've never seen before, after more than 1000 arena matches on my current character alone. Why don't I run into these people in the arena? I should have fought them many times.
    Edit: I just noticed, they are EU players. Do they not cross-match EU and US?

    A) Arena skirmish works off a different queueing system than it does at endgame. At endgame it tries to get you "quality" games. Meaning, it searches for teams that matches your mmr the best at the current time. When it comes to skirmish, it prioritizes the amount of games, rather than the quality of games. So basically, it just wants to put you against whatever team it can find. This means that who you face is completely random, and is not affected by mmr.

    The reason as to why you haven't met the people you mention could be due to that fact. That whoever you meet is completely random, since games aren't based off mmr. Now, granted, it seems highly unlikely that you should not meet x people based on the amount of games. Especially if you queue around the same hours.
     
  13. Bop

    Bop Diamond Cow

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    I definitely agree with you, which is why I'm running Vet instead of F2P on the ladder, which is what I prefer to play as.

    I think where the conflict comes down for me is that 20s who play with 29s still appear on the 20 ladder. So they get all of the glory, when they're more like a 29/29 comp instead of a 20/20 comp. The fault here, as you said, is with Blizzard not granting different brackets.

    It's just also unfortunate that Original and I can work hard to climb the 20 ladder, but have others get there because of their partner's level - something that you are definitely not the only one doing.
     
  14. Cescendo

    Cescendo New Member

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    Would you be so nice and check mine too?

    Ispepisok@Blackmoore EU
     
  15. Bop

    Bop Diamond Cow

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    Hey Cescendo! You're actually able to check your own Ladder Rating on this website!

    At the top of this website, you should see the Home Bar, which directs you to forums, media, etc.

    One of the options on that bar is the "Arena Ladder".

    Click that, and you'll see a ladder for the 19s bracket (which is the default view).

    On that page above the ladder rankings, you'll see an "Add A Character" option.

    Click that and follow the instructions. You can then click the "Your Characters" option, and characters you have personally added will appear there.

    Your character will also be visible on the ladder for everyone to see :)

    There are special XPOff.com badges you can earn for reaching 2000 or 2200 rating in any bracket - good luck!

    Bop
     
  16. Cescendo

    Cescendo New Member

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    I would like to, but it says the level of that character is not allowed
     
  17. Bop

    Bop Diamond Cow

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    Oh :/

    What level is your character?
     
  18. Cescendo

    Cescendo New Member

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    I tried multiple characters all of them 110 :( FeelsBadMan
     
  19. Bop

    Bop Diamond Cow

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    Oh, 110 isn't a supported level for the XPOff Arena ladder.

    Endgame players have access to the Ranked Arena Ladder, so we don't support tracking skirmish MMR for them.

    There are still ways to check your skirmish MMR as a 110, but you won't find it on this website.

    I'm sorry, and good luck in your pvping!

    Bop
     

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