US Haven't seen too many 60-69 twinks, but I know you're out there.

Discussion in 'Level 60-69' started by freestylez, Nov 24, 2018.

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  1. freestylez

    freestylez New Member

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    US Alliance 69 mage here and I'm trying the whole twinking thing out. Kind of difficult being that the Horde is usually just better when it comes to PvP. Anyhow, just lookin' for some people who like running BGs. Communities don't have too many people on at this level that I've seen.

    Btag: Freestylez#1356
     
  2. Laernyth

    Laernyth Member Moderator

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    *vomits*
     
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  3. OP
    freestylez

    freestylez New Member

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    Is a 69 mage a bad idea?
     
  4. Laernyth

    Laernyth Member Moderator

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    Nah man, you're just

    Huuueueerrrghghhhhh *wipes stomach bile off of bottom lip*

    You're gonna wreck face, don't worry about a thing. I'll hit you up if the horde 69s come out to play.
     
  5. MYT

    MYT Member

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    Arcanes are strong that’s why he’s saying that, but not as strong as fury so don’t feel bad.
     
  6. OP
    freestylez

    freestylez New Member

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    Arcane doesn't seem that strong to me, I mean no other mage ever tops my damage. Fury does though when they have a pocket healer.
     
  7. Merlin

    Merlin Member

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    do your 14th anni daily The Originals .. aim for neck, cloak and 2 rings .. if they proc warforge plus leech plus socket, you will get the best BIS for a long long time to come
     
  8. Veechard

    Veechard Grandfathered

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    For agil and int users, your BIS rings are complete int/agil stacking as your can get 15-17 of the stat, compared to a bunch of primary’s + 5 int/agil. Same goes for neck as both type of users can get 15 agil/int necks. I’m my opinion, the only upgrades from this even for agil and int users are cloak and bracers.
     
  9. Glorifyd

    Glorifyd Grandfathered

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    Thats not entirely true. Some classes require secondary thresholds to function at their true capacity. Yes going a more primary stat build is always an option, but a socketed Ring or Neck from this event is massive.
     
  10. Merlin

    Merlin Member

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  11. Merlin

    Merlin Member

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    i do not know the effect .. but they seem to give so much versa on these items now and removing primary stats .. whats the total outcome, will have to wait till the 14th anni is over and gear up to find out
     
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  12. Veechard

    Veechard Grandfathered

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    Having a socket is massive? All this holiday loot can be found in dungeons and raids and even boes with some of the same stats. For instance you can get roughly 20 vers 10 crit ring from holiday, and there is a ring from I believe ZA that at 60 scales to like 20 vers 10 crit. So the gem socket would be only upgrade. So 5 agil/int and 5 crit. Please explain to me how that’s massive?

    Yes I agree some classes do perform better with stacked secondary than stacked primary, but NOT stat for stat.

    I’ll go as far as to say that 1 int/agil is = 3 of a secondary. With that being said would I want a 15 agil 15 stam 5 crit neck, or 12 stam 15 crit 20 vers and 5 agil? The answer is even with a gem socket helping out the holiday loot, it all pretty much balances out for neck and ring slots.

    The only slots I’d say have massive advantage are bracer and Cloak slots. And Idk if I’d even say massive but the pretty good
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  13. Glorifyd

    Glorifyd Grandfathered

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    Im confused as to how, in your own response, you didnt see the answer in your own words.

    Using your "1 Agi/Int = 3 Secondary" made up weighted stats that gem is worth 20 Secondary Stats. If we then apply that to the same logic as neck/ring preferences that single gem is worth 1/3rd+ the value of the slot. If you dont think 1/3rd increases in stat value is massive... via your own numbers... well idk how to convince you.
     
  14. Laernyth

    Laernyth Member Moderator

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    We all just love a good chat so much; look how quickly we derail topics. Not saying it's a bad thing, I kind of like being able to find good conversation wherever I go.

    3:1 is a bit of a stretch. It's certainly possible, but not really for geared characters at 6X

    (Main Stat+40)/105 : 14.34 Crit : 8.67 Haste : 10.83 Versatility - These are the stat weights I START with when calculating for raw throughput while scaled in BGs, with very few assumptions made. Different classes/specs will have slightly different numbers, but if you calculate the portion of your damage (from say, a details log) that is 'double dipping' into a certain stat you can very easily determine its increased value, or at least figure out a ballpark estimate as to whether or not it will outdo another stat.

    pls nu reprt 4 fftpic

    Edit: Those weights are for 0% secondaries. Obviously, mathematically derived diminished returns should also be factored in when gearing.
     
  15. Veechard

    Veechard Grandfathered

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    Yes, gem would be worth 20 secondaries, but that’s not enough to make make it worth it in some slots like 22 int black widow band. I think the big issue I see is for agil classes, there are certain very good items like neck off nef that even with gem weighing, still squeezes by as a bit better than a socket boss neck. Also just the 17 int ring from MC is even a tid better. When you start getting into necks and rings, there are some that just won’t be replaceable. Also you see to be forgetting some secondary’s don’t work well for some classes or you already have too much of one, and what if your event ring and necks are primarily that dominant secondary that you didn’t need? There is a reason they call them primary’s, you want to prioritize (when the math adds up to do so). And in the case of rings and necks for agil/int classes, it’s not enough to convince me. It would have to be something that is a clear upgrade. socket event rings and necks arn’t to me.

    Back to the topic of primary’s tho, this is where cloaks and bracers shine. That socket makes using a “suffix type” armor worth it again. Let me explain that better by an example.

    Beetle Scaled Wristguards from AQ 40 have 6 agil, 13 stam, 8 haste 5 vers. This item behaves like a suffix piece. The world boss look behaves like suffix pieces as well for cloak and wrist slots.

    I am currently using Wristguards of Stability from MC I think
    14 agil 13 stam

    Boss loot bracers with socket

    14 agil 13 stam
    13 crit 4 vers

    THAT is a big upgrade.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2018 ---
    My big issue is Glor is saying, if you get a gem socket in your neck or rings, hey, that’s a 20 secondary upgrade.... just no. Because your saying you would be using ring or neck in question without the socket. Hell no....
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2018 ---
    That’s like saying, I have Nef neck which is 13 agil 13 stam 5 crit and use blazefury medallion from Kazzak with 14 stam 12 crit 20 vers reguardless of socket. Never... not even with socket.
     
  16. Laernyth

    Laernyth Member Moderator

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    Erm. 13 Agi and 5 Crit from Nef isn't worth much more than an epic rolled neck. Any ilvl61 neck with a socket as long as it's main secondary isn't crit will yield greater dps.

    So, you get a total of 31 secondaries on a scaled neck. Lets say for simplicity that it is worth 31. Let's also say that Agi IS worth 1:3 secondaries, though this would only be the case at horridly low Agi. Let's also say crits deal regular damage in pvp, again for simplicity.

    Nef Neck is therefore worth 44.
    Scaled Neck is 31
    Scaled neck with Socket is 31+(15+5)=51

    Now it ISNT that simple, but the complications we are avoiding are in favour of the socket neck.
     
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  17. Glorifyd

    Glorifyd Grandfathered

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    @Veechard All I said was your original comment wasnt entirely true. I never claimed that Main Stat Neck/Rings are bad. You are arguing a point that I never made.

    I said USING YOUR WEIGHTED STATS COMPARISON that its worth 20 Secondaries, which was to make a point of the overall value a socket was worth... because you claimed a socket wasnt massive. Nothing more. You dont get to come up with math... math I then used to prove my point... then shout that Im the one applying these values to the sockets. You've now derailed my entire original comment into mathz.

    I never once said you should use event necks/rings without the socket at all. Again you are combining parts of what Ive said to straw man.

    Let me make my point very clear; Builds with secondaries over main stats work for certain specs, making some of these event items BiS. Sockets for these items are MASSIVE. Thats it. Jesus fking christ.
     
  18. Jhyndaal

    Jhyndaal Member

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    word
     
  19. Blackberryy

    Blackberryy Those peanut butter vibes Administrator

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    I would argue the ring of ancient arcana with a gem slot is bis for basically everything. 20+ vers. At 70 that’s 2% flat damage increase and 1% damage reduction. And with a large amount of crit and stamina as well as 5 mainstat just makes for pure insanity in a twink ring. Also, the black widow band at 60 is probibly not obtainable and even when it was the chance was so low I doubt anyone but @Ceified has one
     
  20. Kirise

    Kirise Member

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    That right there answered every question I had about the loot drops from the Originals. Maybe in 20 years I'll have BIS. ...Or one BIS ring.

    To add a little more to the stat weight discussion, my resto shaman sees about 1.0 int = 1.3 secondary stats (double that for crit) unbuffed, which is to say secondary stats make an extremely strong impact.

    No regular Kazzak/dragon drops will give me anything worthwhile. At best, they'll match what I already have. But half of those drops will become BiS with a socket or tertiary stat, and the other half will become BiS with both.
     

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