OP
OP
Rhaen
Rob
Totally forgot about that passive, thanks for explaining and thanks for programming f2pdev - very useful!
Guardian Druid FC
- Thread starter Rhaen
- Start date
Totally forgot about that passive, thanks for explaining and thanks for programming f2pdev - very useful!
Hashbrowns
Legend
Np, glad to help!
Swoops
Legend
It's not in the tooltip anywhere, but Find Weakness is only 50% against players. I'll see if I can find it, it was changed to that from I think 70% against everyone in 5.3 or 5.4.
edit:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9679398
Bop
Remember the Treeline
I am fairly positive you cannot miss with Wild Charge (Bear). I've run the 0 hit guardian set multiple times and never had a problem with it missing.
In regards to Staff of Jordan vs Old Crafty, you should DEFINITELY have a SoJ in your inventory. Macro Bear Hug to equip SoJ before using (And Wild Charge: Bear, if it is capable of missing - again, fairly sure it does not), and macro SoJ before rejuvenation.
The resilience is extremely minimal. Something to the tune of 10 resil = 1% resilience in BG's.
The damage reduction from resilience is better at reducing huge amounts of sustained damage that is entirely consistent. If the damage is bursty at all, then having a higher health cap is going to be the most beneficial.
Especially with the low rate of return from resilience and the 14 health per stamina from Bear Form...
In regards to spell power, check this out:
At level 20, rejuvenation has a base heal of 154 and a 39.2% ratio with spellpower.
0 spell power: (154 + .392 x 0) x .45 (Battle Fatigue) = 69.3 healing per tick
48 spell power: (154 + .392 x 48) x .45 (Battle Fatigue) = 77.8 healing per tick
I'm not so sure you're worse off by just going with consistent stamina and swapping SoJ for Bear Hug / First application of Rejuvenation.
-----
Mystic's Robe does lose quite a bit of health versus Physical because you're dropping around 60 armor. That being said, a substantial amount of the damage you're taking is A. Burst and B. Magical.
Once again, the higher your health, the easier it is for healers to top you off. This is especially true with Brutality Stacks, where mitigation is slightly less effective than max health. (You have 25% physical reduction. They are doing 75% damage to you with physical damage. You receive 100% more damage from all sources. But your reductions do not increase. So from physical, you are taking 200% -25% = 175% damage from physical. In effect, your mitigations are being halved by 10 Brutality Stacks.)
Also, most of the damage you take from high damage targets is actually magical. Hunters deal magic damage from Fire (Explosive Shot), Arcane (Arcane Shot), and Nature (Serpent Sting). All of which are a significant chunk of their damage, somewhere near 75% (The rest being auto attacks and pet melee).
Shadow Priests are obviously entirely magical damage.
The only source of pure physical damage is from Rogues, but even they get a massive armor reduction from Find Weakness. Additionally, a sizable part of their damage comes from Deadly Poison (about 15% from Subtlety rogues and 25% from Assassination) which is Nature Damage.
In regards to Staff of Jordan vs Old Crafty, you should DEFINITELY have a SoJ in your inventory. Macro Bear Hug to equip SoJ before using (And Wild Charge: Bear, if it is capable of missing - again, fairly sure it does not), and macro SoJ before rejuvenation.
The resilience is extremely minimal. Something to the tune of 10 resil = 1% resilience in BG's.
The damage reduction from resilience is better at reducing huge amounts of sustained damage that is entirely consistent. If the damage is bursty at all, then having a higher health cap is going to be the most beneficial.
Especially with the low rate of return from resilience and the 14 health per stamina from Bear Form...
In regards to spell power, check this out:
At level 20, rejuvenation has a base heal of 154 and a 39.2% ratio with spellpower.
0 spell power: (154 + .392 x 0) x .45 (Battle Fatigue) = 69.3 healing per tick
48 spell power: (154 + .392 x 48) x .45 (Battle Fatigue) = 77.8 healing per tick
I'm not so sure you're worse off by just going with consistent stamina and swapping SoJ for Bear Hug / First application of Rejuvenation.
-----
Mystic's Robe does lose quite a bit of health versus Physical because you're dropping around 60 armor. That being said, a substantial amount of the damage you're taking is A. Burst and B. Magical.
Once again, the higher your health, the easier it is for healers to top you off. This is especially true with Brutality Stacks, where mitigation is slightly less effective than max health. (You have 25% physical reduction. They are doing 75% damage to you with physical damage. You receive 100% more damage from all sources. But your reductions do not increase. So from physical, you are taking 200% -25% = 175% damage from physical. In effect, your mitigations are being halved by 10 Brutality Stacks.)
Also, most of the damage you take from high damage targets is actually magical. Hunters deal magic damage from Fire (Explosive Shot), Arcane (Arcane Shot), and Nature (Serpent Sting). All of which are a significant chunk of their damage, somewhere near 75% (The rest being auto attacks and pet melee).
Shadow Priests are obviously entirely magical damage.
The only source of pure physical damage is from Rogues, but even they get a massive armor reduction from Find Weakness. Additionally, a sizable part of their damage comes from Deadly Poison (about 15% from Subtlety rogues and 25% from Assassination) which is Nature Damage.
Hashbrowns
Legend
Oh interesting, I hadn't seen that before. Well now it's all up in the air. MM is always best from everything I've seen. Same with Grand Staff of Jordan.
If it was me I'd run a trinket. And 1 stam vs 7 agility, I'd face the target and take the extra dodge. But at this point it's all playstyle/pugging vs dedicated healer. Inherited Mark of Tyranny isn't bad either, the health increase isn't effected from Battle Fatigue. AGM's bubble is...
All this subject to change with WoD lol
OP
OP
Rhaen
Rob
Will try out Macro weapon swapping but I remember it being a pain in the past.
From what you're saying- would I be right in paraphrasing that: after a certain stack point I should swap to max stam? or Mystic/Dawnblade combo is more effective pre stacks regardless?
Glad to have some math based theorycrafting, thanks for stopping by.
Last edited by a moderator:
Swoops
Legend
Not 100% sure on Wild Charge. The last time I played with it was 5.2, and it missed all day due to bugged spell hit.
Mind running through this math again?
So with zero stacks, someone hits a mage for 100 and a guardian for 75.
With 10 stacks, they hit a mage for 200 and a guardian for 175?
I don't think it works that way...
Mind running through this math again?
So with zero stacks, someone hits a mage for 100 and a guardian for 75.
With 10 stacks, they hit a mage for 200 and a guardian for 175?
I don't think it works that way...
clarification
Legend
Bop
Remember the Treeline
A lot of it, as Hashbrowns says, comes down to personal preference. Numerically, you're always going to be better off getting as much mitigation as possible (For example, say you have 30% physical damage reduction. Well, you may not take 100% physical damage, but if you take 37% physical damage and 63% magical damage, then you still have (.30 x .37) 11% flat damage reduction across the board).
That being said, you get 25% reduction from magic damage just from being Guardian Spec. You get 12.5% physical reduction, and a 200% increase to Bear Form armor. Logically, the reduced physical reduction is supposed to be made up for by the Armor Increase.
Therefore, armor is important to Guardian because it makes up a sizable portion of what Protection Warriors get as a flat 25% reduction. (Sidenote: This is what people talk about when they say Protection has more base mitigation. Protection has high armor and a 25% physical reduction, making it slightly superior against Physical Damage than Guardian's 12.5% physical reduction with high armor. The numbers do not innately balance out).
That being said, Bear Form also supplies a flat 40% increase to Stamina (Translation: each point of Stamina gives 14 health instead of 10), which makes Health also scale superbly for Guardian.
Brutality Stacks - There isn't really a mathematically sound way to calculate which set should be used or at which point. Think of it like this: If you have 1000 health and 50% mitigations, are you better off than having 2000 health and 25% mitigations?
Say that you're taking 500 DPS, and your healer is able to put out 350 HPS. The 1000 health 50% mitigation is going to numerically be superior to the 2000 health 25% mitigation ( every second the healer has a surplus of 100 HPS versus every second the healer has a deficit of 25 HPS ).
However, this is numerical superiority and doesn't quite translate to a real situation. Having 2000 base health makes you far less likely to get "1 shotted", something that healers have no chance to help you defend against. When Healing is extremely powerful (which it still is from the perspective that the HPS of a Hpally or a Rdruid is something like 800 while spamming heals), it is better for you to have a higher health pool than it is to have higher damage reductions.
tl;dr:
Stay in Bear Form.
Giant Health pools are probably going to be your best option.
Keep both sets, just in case of future changes.
Brutality Stacks ADD a damage increaser that is not affected by your mitigations (75% damage versus physical, with brutality becomes 175% damage versus physical).
Oldspike and myself have found that Stamina seems to be the best route to go. For Prot Warriors, using the BoAs gives so much armor that it is hard to argue against it being BiS over Mystic's Robes. However, for Guardian I'm not so sure.
Last edited by a moderator:
clarification
Legend
Bop
Remember the Treeline
That's not how Brutality works. It did WAY back when it was first implemented, but not anymore.
Brutality Stacks put an additive debuff that increases your damage received and ignores reductions.
75% damage received from Physical Sources +10% per Brutality Stack.
It is NOT 75% damage received from Physical Sources x (100% + 10% per brutality stack).
So yes, if someone hits someone who (hypothetically) has 0% physical reduction for 100 damage,
They will hit a target with 25% physical reduction for 75 damage.
If both targets have 10 brutality stacks, the base damage will be increased by 100%. The base damage for this is 100 damage.
Target 1 will receive (100 x 0% reduction) + 100 damage from Brutality Stacks = 200
Target 2 will receive (100 x 25% reduction) + 100 = 175
If you want to look at it as a damage average, 25%/200% = 12.5% mitigation from Physical Damage. It basically halves your mitigation at full stacks.
clarification
Legend
Bop
Remember the Treeline
I can't find a source that talks specifically about the effects of physical and magical reductions on Brutal Assault. I do know for a fact that Brutal Assault is calculated after Resilience.
Blizzard is notoriously closed lips when it comes to precise numerical calculations using their systems, but I can attest to the fact that all of the FC's in Rated Battlegrounds I healed at 2400 mmr back in 4.2 when the Brutality change went live said that the damage from Brutality stacks was "True" damage (unable to be mitigated or lowered in any way) except for Resilience.
The wording states that Brutality "increases damage taken", as opposed to the wording prior to the change which was "increases damage dealt to you" - that seems to suggest to me that the old damage was added prior to reductions, and the new damage is a flat increase received by the FC.
clarification
Legend
Bop
Remember the Treeline
I'm not so sure. "Increases damage dealt" sounds like it is calculated prior to mitigation, and is therefore reduced.
"Increases damage taken" sounds like it has a direct effect on your health bar, and is not affected by mitigation.
What's sad is that Blizzard doesn't provide the proper information necessary to make the conversation more than conjecture based around wording.
I can almost certainly say that the effectiveness of base mitigation is reduced by Brutality Stacks. That was the biggest purpose of the change in 4.2.2 in the first place.
OP
OP
Rhaen
Rob
Only true past level 34. Pre 34 intellect gives spell power.
Last edited by a moderator:
Annymous
Legend
Ohh I see
LennywBT
SpeeDIO
Lennydroody @ Borean Tundra - Community - World of Warcraft This si waht i use , while Fc;in !
Bop
Remember the Treeline
I'd generally say that 1 stamina is superior to 5 intellect (in terms of Garrosh's Pardon vs Blood Ring).
The 2 stamina from GhamooRa's Bind is going to be more effective health than the Leather belt armor.
The only other thing is that I'd encourage you to invest in Dawnblade / Old Crafty for when you're a 10 stack Brutality FC with healers on you. The 2 stamina is going to be superior to the 8 resilience (and you're not going to swap out of bear form to rejuvenate yourself at that point).
But yeah, that's a kickass set, Lenny
