Death Knights Origins

Discussion in 'General WoW' started by Magrain, Nov 24, 2020.

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  1. Magrain

    Magrain Member

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    So I never really liked what modern WoW lore has become as of now, retcons and too many bullshit that makes no sense. But theres this thing that bugs me the most.
    I saw some gameplay of Shadowlands, quests and cinematics etc. I came to understand that Death Knight's source of power originated from the Maw, EX: When High lord Bolvar 1st entered Orbos, the inhabitants sensed some Maw energy from them, and also the Rune blade also originated from the Maw. Which begs the question, wasnt Gul'dan the one who created Death Knights? A warlock, fel infused class that has nothing to do with the Maw, created Death Knights. Teron'Gor was the 1st ever Death Knight to exist at the hands of Gul'dan. So did they retconned it or something? Or am i missing vital information? Im sick of this twists and confusion. Heck, The Elder Scrolls lore isnt that bullshit as WoW as of now lmao.
     
  2. Quelfep

    Quelfep OG

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    nooo clue bro sorry
     
  3. Chops

    Chops Soccer Dad Moderator

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    I havent followed lore since wrath and even then, only half heartedly. But wouldnt the out be that the fel draw its power from the maw? I dont know these things but I feel like thats the direction theyd take it?
     
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  4. toskosa

    toskosa Member

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    Fel doesnt draw its power from the maw, right now from what I have read/seen the dreadlords are responsible for the burning legion having access to the maw. the helm of domination from the maw frostmourne from the maw. I would assume the dreadlords gave gul'dan or at least funneled the knowledge of how to create death knights to him. I mean they were essentially pawns for the burning crusade at the time. There is a book in shadowlands that connects the dreadords to a larger conspiracy involving the jailer/burning legion I cant remember it atm though.
     
  5. Eleannor

    Eleannor Azeroth's Champion

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    My guess is that Gul'dan created the 1st and 2nd Generation of Death Knights, which were completely different and probably used fel and shadow energy, as they were Alliance paladins possessed by the spirits of Horde warlocks.

    The 3rd and 4th Generation of Death Knights came from the Lich King and the Maw (apparently), which is why they use death-related powers (Blood, Frost and Unholy).
     
  6. Carbonated

    Carbonated Member

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    There are good sources for cannon on this stuff and some good lore speculation videos on YouTube .
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2020 ---
    Also seems to be that blizzard is saying originally the deathknights were a maldraxxus thing that was stolen by the jailer . But it's all about early in the expac to say where they are pushing it all now.
     
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    Magrain

    Magrain Member

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    Too many retcons and borrowed powers..
    If we followed the official Cosmology, Fel originated from disorder that has the Burning Legion, Fel existed long before Sargeras went crusade on the cosmos. Meaning that as @Eleannor explained, might have a pretty solid evidence that early DKs were different than modern DKs. An experiment that Gul'dan made up untill the Lich King took control of it and made the now Maw infused ones.
    If that is true, would be awsome to see ancient DKs wielding Fel energies, cant imagine a DK throwing a Chaos Bolt at his enemies.
    However, im not sure about the maldraxxus thing, or did Gul'dan actually came up with it by himself, or the Dreadlords are the reason 80% of the game is like that now.
    (Edit: With what happened in modern Lore, it underestimates old characters that we thought to be powerful and badass, only to discover that they borrowed pretty much everything. To me its a poor character build up and throws away the thought of a certain character of how he was. EX: Kil'jeaden's creation of the Lich king being retconned)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  8. Carbonated

    Carbonated Member

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    Lore conversations are tricky .

    From the current stuff it shows that Maldraxxus is where the scourge plauge (house of plagues) came from. The necrolords and Maldraxxus have been around a long time far longer than nerzhul , guldan or even the burning legion ( as that was the name given to Sargeras crusade with his demon buddies :D ).

    But as we saw in the letters to sire Denathrious , the dreadlords have infiltrated all of the cosmological forces on behalf of the banished one (the jailer) .

    We can see this in Shadowlands to - they have infiltrated and started civil wars in each zone.

    I guess all of the jailers armies are dead or subverted creatures from all over the cosmos.

    I agree I hope they tie the lore up well by the end of the expansion and they don't just epicly jump the shark on each major element.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2020 ---
    Blizzard like to use other ppls creations , they usually do it pretty well . Feels like they are still echoing LOTR in that all of Saurons Armies were as I said before dead or subverted creatures from all realms.

    Crazy thing was that orcs were elves that had been basically magically genetically manipulated LOL
     
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    Magrain

    Magrain Member

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    Wait wtf? Orcs were elves?? Thought they were a decendant of the Ancients and the Colossals in Draenor (Most notable Ancient was called Grond who Agrammar created in hopes to stop the Everbloom from taking over the planet like a parasite)
     
  10. ImmahBon

    ImmahBon Legend

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    They are coming up with the lore as they go, what would you expect?
    Pretty hard to keep it together for years and years..
     
  11. Carbonated

    Carbonated Member

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    No in LOTR bro - was just fleshing out Tolkien's version of the enemy. In wow elves used to trolls. :D
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2020 ---
     
  12. Germinus

    Germinus Member

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    As far as i know, yes Guldan made first deathknight in azeroth. He sacrifised many of hes followers and binded them into one. Aka he basically used maw. But maby i missed something.

    Or maby.. maby.. guldan was a dreadlord all along! Plot!

    Also helm of domination was infused with nerzul by ...brainfart.. demon.. he didnt make it. It allready was.

    And as said before, maw has "ppl" far older than burning legion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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    Magrain

    Magrain Member

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    Yeah about the trolls, im aware. Infact Highelves, Nightelves and Nightbourne are all Trolls that overdosed magic.
    Kinda makes me wonder, most of Azeroth's native race are either Trolls, sub species of trolls, Titanic constructs/creation. Rest are considered Aliens from another worlds.
     
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  14. Nurd

    Nurd Veteran

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    id say its kinda tricky given that the recent expansions were written by new people
    it was fair to give up during WoD when the dude who caused genocide goes "draenor is free"

    but, werent 1st gen dks were basically shadow council warlock souls placed into human bodies

    the current gen as you know is tied to LK, he is tied to maw/shadowlands i guess
    altho im missing how , since LK was made by kil'jaeden

    maybe it was explained somewhere recently, the lore is a mess
     
  15. Chops

    Chops Soccer Dad Moderator

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    The Warcraft story ended in Wrath. The rest of this is just pulp fantasy that only needs to hold together long enough to get re-worked in the next expansion, where it just has to hold together long enough to get re-worked in the next expansion, etc etc etc
     
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  16. Nurd

    Nurd Veteran

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    Dragon Ravaging the whole world? Fat bears running around? What...Alternate timeline? You must have hit your head hard when you fell off that horse Chops, come on! We got argent tournament to win!
     
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  17. Chops

    Chops Soccer Dad Moderator

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    the surest sign a writing team has completely run out of ideas is when they start introducing time travel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  18. Nurd

    Nurd Veteran

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    Maybe it wouldnt have ended that bad if they didnt abandon the expansion 3 months in after massive negative backlash.

    Atleast they didnt bring back a villain and then whiteashed him into "Well, actually, he was a double agent, you guys didnt see that haha!"
    ..wait
     
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  19. Carbonated

    Carbonated Member

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    It's coming nurd - ((Shadowlands spoilers)) do not watch unless you don't care :D

     
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    Magrain

    Magrain Member

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    I already watched everything that SL has (ATM). Bec i know very damn well that i wont be playing the full game anytime soon. So far Denathrius is giving me an erection. I have never seen a nut worthy Antagonist ever since Arthas/Lich King.
     
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